Hakim vs. Garand

Hans R Colt · 05-08-2002, 12:47 AM

Which one would you want in a foxhole with you?

I like the stripper clip system much better than en-bloc loading...
But you don't have to worry about Garands breaking their extractors either...

Klaus · 05-08-2002, 07:18 AM

The Garand is the clear choice here. The Hakim is better at LONG range shots and taking out vehicles, but the Garand is much handier, being shorter and MUCH lighter. Plus the Garand does not blow gases in the vicinity of the shooter's face. I like Hakims, but would rather have the Garand in combat, unless I was fighting across a fairly flat desert.

BattleRifleG3 · 05-08-2002, 11:10 AM

Never loaded a Hakim, but I have the feeling the Garand would be faster and easier to load. The clips would go in faster and more easily, and they all go in at once, instead of one at a time. M1 is less barrel heavy too, shorter, and lighter overall.
In the bigger picture, good ammo is more common for M1, as are reloading supplies, and armor piercing ammo.

Klaus · 05-08-2002, 01:02 PM

The Hakim is faster to load because it has a detachable box magazine, like the M-14.

BattleRifleG3 · 05-08-2002, 02:10 PM

I had the impression that the Hakim's box was still meant to be loaded while installed. True/false?

Klaus · 05-08-2002, 04:06 PM

I had one and never loaded it from the top. I always loaded the mag first, then slapped it on the rifle. It CAN be loaded from the top, if you WANT to. Personally, I did not want my figers anywhere near the bolt/carrier/cover assembly when it was open.

Hans R Colt · 05-08-2002, 09:55 PM

I like that the Hakim has grasping rails for better grip...my hands just can't seem to get a good grip on the forend of a Garand during rapid fire drills...I seem to do much better with the Hakim.

As for the magazine reloading, that darn dual locking system for holding the mag in place just irritates the heck out of me, so I just put the rifle on safe, load the stripper clip of ammo into the mag, swing the selector to the Fire position, load, and I'm off! I was trading shots with this guy with a Garand at the range, and my reloading time was a bit slower, though.

Rapid fire just heats up the rear sight so much that after 30 rounds, it's just too hot to adjust, so I've just been practicing snap shooting with the sight set at 300 meters and just holding under for close-range targets.

Dennis · 05-09-2002, 02:27 AM

I would pick the Hakim if I was in a bayonet fight.

Hans R Colt · 05-10-2002, 09:29 PM

You've got a "point" there, Dennis!

By the way, everybody...Thanks for keeping the Ljungmann/Hakim/Rashid forum alive...it's lonely in here!

REM.303 · 05-13-2002, 06:33 PM

How-do guys, I'M back. The thing I like about Hakiems is the wierd looks you get when you take it off the rack at the range. Boy do they back up when it starts to talk...

Klaus · 05-13-2002, 07:27 PM

Sure would hate to get butt-stroked with a Hakim.

Hans R Colt · 05-13-2002, 11:29 PM

The muzzle brake always starts a debate at the range as to whether or not it's a "flash hider." I keep telling everyone that the ATF wouldn't have allowed it into the country with a flash hider/flash suppressor. I like to sit next to the garand guys and tell them how much I really paid for my baby...they usually are impressed by how little recoil it generates.

WyrTwister · 05-14-2002, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hans R Colt
Which one would you want in a foxhole with you?

I like the stripper clip system much better than en-bloc loading...
But you don't have to worry about Garands breaking their extractors either...

I have no problem with stripper clips with a Mauser , but have problems with them on my Hakim .

No problem with the Garand clips .

Over all , I think the Garand is a little more well developed design .

Wish I had a 8mm barrel on one of my Garands , to shoot the cheap Turk Ammo . :-)

Wyr
God Bless

WyrTwister · 05-14-2002, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klaus
The Garand is the clear choice here. The Hakim is better at LONG range shots and taking out vehicles, but the Garand is much handier, being shorter and MUCH lighter. Plus the Garand does not blow gases in the vicinity of the shooter's face. I like Hakims, but would rather have the Garand in combat, unless I was fighting across a fairly flat desert.

Are you sure you are not thinking about the M1 Carbine ?

M1 Garand is normally .30-06 . It has , in the past , been used in 1,000 yard matches .

I do not see that 8mm is that much superior at long range ?

Wyr
God Bless

WyrTwister · 05-14-2002, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klaus
The Hakim is faster to load because it has a detachable box magazine, like the M-14.

Have you priced those mags ? They are higher than M-14 mags . 8 roung Garand clips $ .35 - .50 each . That is cents , not dollars .

It was intended to load with stripper clips , which I am not good at . Like the enfields , Mausers , MN's & Springfields .

A M1A / M-14 can be loaded with stripper clips , pretty easily , if you do not have a scope on it .

Wyr
God Bless

WyrTwister · 05-14-2002, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BattleRifleG3
I had the impression that the Hakim's box was still meant to be loaded while installed. True/false?

True .

Wyr
God Bless

WyrTwister · 05-14-2002, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Klaus
I had one and never loaded it from the top. I always loaded the mag first, then slapped it on the rifle. It CAN be loaded from the top, if you WANT to. Personally, I did not want my figers anywhere near the bolt/carrier/cover assembly when it was open.

Very understandable , but if you play it by the rules , you are ok .

Wyr
God Bless

Klaus · 05-14-2002, 07:27 AM

WyrTwister, compared to the Hakim, the M1 Garand is much handier. I do not know if you ever saw a Hakim, but they are gigantic. The Hakim is also quite a bit more powerful, especially at long ranges. I am quite aware of the difference between a M1 Garand and a M1 carbine.

Hans R Colt · 05-14-2002, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WyrTwister

Are you sure you are not thinking about the M1 Carbine ?

M1 Garand is normally .30-06 . It has , in the past , been used in 1,000 yard matches .

I do not see that 8mm is that much superior at long range ?

Wyr
God Bless

I like the amount of energy a 196 grain bullet can impart on a target at 700-1000 yards, and it's heavier weight makes it more resistant to wind deflection at that same range, where a lot of rifle bullets start to go subsonic and lose a lot of their accuracy. Granted, the .30-06 saves you elevation clicks on a scope because of its taut ballistic trajectory, but I've seen 8mm penetrate car doors even at that range...and just the regular copper jacket.

Hans R Colt · 05-15-2002, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WyrTwister

I have no problem with stripper clips with a Mauser , but have problems with them on my Hakim .

No problem with the Garand clips .

Over all , I think the Garand is a little more well developed design .

Wish I had a 8mm barrel on one of my Garands , to shoot the cheap Turk Ammo . :-)

Wyr
God Bless

The two things that concern me about the Garand are:

1. TIMING. If the timing of the lockworks or the gas system is
off, then you've got to take it to the gunsmith and have
him/her inspect it and fix/replace parts for the cost of one
Hakim.

2. AMMO. You can still buy Turk ammo for 12 cents a round;
haven't seen that price for '.06 in years!

PS: Can you tell that I'm poor?

05-08-2002, 12:47 AM	#1
Hans R Colt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 105	Hakim vs. Garand Which one would you want in a foxhole with you? I like the stripper clip system much better than en-bloc loading... But you don't have to worry about Garands breaking their extractors either...

05-08-2002, 07:18 AM	#2
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	The Garand is the clear choice here. The Hakim is better at LONG range shots and taking out vehicles, but the Garand is much handier, being shorter and MUCH lighter. Plus the Garand does not blow gases in the vicinity of the shooter's face. I like Hakims, but would rather have the Garand in combat, unless I was fighting across a fairly flat desert. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-08-2002, 11:10 AM	#3
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Never loaded a Hakim, but I have the feeling the Garand would be faster and easier to load. The clips would go in faster and more easily, and they all go in at once, instead of one at a time. M1 is less barrel heavy too, shorter, and lighter overall. In the bigger picture, good ammo is more common for M1, as are reloading supplies, and armor piercing ammo. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-08-2002, 01:02 PM	#4
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	The Hakim is faster to load because it has a detachable box magazine, like the M-14. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-08-2002, 02:10 PM	#5
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	I had the impression that the Hakim's box was still meant to be loaded while installed. True/false? __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-08-2002, 04:06 PM	#6
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	I had one and never loaded it from the top. I always loaded the mag first, then slapped it on the rifle. It CAN be loaded from the top, if you WANT to. Personally, I did not want my figers anywhere near the bolt/carrier/cover assembly when it was open. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-08-2002, 09:55 PM	#7
Hans R Colt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 105	I like that the Hakim has grasping rails for better grip...my hands just can't seem to get a good grip on the forend of a Garand during rapid fire drills...I seem to do much better with the Hakim. As for the magazine reloading, that darn dual locking system for holding the mag in place just irritates the heck out of me, so I just put the rifle on safe, load the stripper clip of ammo into the mag, swing the selector to the Fire position, load, and I'm off! I was trading shots with this guy with a Garand at the range, and my reloading time was a bit slower, though. Rapid fire just heats up the rear sight so much that after 30 rounds, it's just too hot to adjust, so I've just been practicing snap shooting with the sight set at 300 meters and just holding under for close-range targets.

05-09-2002, 02:27 AM	#8
Dennis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,877	I would pick the Hakim if I was in a bayonet fight. __________________ Submitted with respect to all

05-10-2002, 09:29 PM	#9
Hans R Colt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 105	You've got a "point" there, Dennis! By the way, everybody...Thanks for keeping the Ljungmann/Hakim/Rashid forum alive...it's lonely in here!

05-13-2002, 06:33 PM	#10
REM.303 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: 15 miles PAST the end of the earth Posts: 145	How-do guys, I'M back. The thing I like about Hakiems is the wierd looks you get when you take it off the rack at the range. Boy do they back up when it starts to talk... __________________ Remember, the easy path IS ALWAYS Mined...

05-13-2002, 07:27 PM	#11
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	Sure would hate to get butt-stroked with a Hakim. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-13-2002, 11:29 PM	#12
Hans R Colt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 105	The muzzle brake always starts a debate at the range as to whether or not it's a "flash hider." I keep telling everyone that the ATF wouldn't have allowed it into the country with a flash hider/flash suppressor. I like to sit next to the garand guys and tell them how much I really paid for my baby...they usually are impressed by how little recoil it generates.

05-14-2002, 07:27 AM	#18
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	WyrTwister, compared to the Hakim, the M1 Garand is much handier. I do not know if you ever saw a Hakim, but they are gigantic. The Hakim is also quite a bit more powerful, especially at long ranges. I am quite aware of the difference between a M1 Garand and a M1 carbine. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"