Families of 11 dead illegals to sue U.S.

Doglips · 05-13-2002, 07:55 PM

May 11, 2002

Families of 11 dead illegals to sue U.S.
By Steve Miller
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The families of 11 immigrants who died illegally crossing into Arizona from Mexico have filed a $41 million claim against two federal agencies, saying the government's refusal to put water out in the desert contributed to the migrants' deaths. Top Stories
• U.S. weighs July 4 threat
• Likud rejects a Palestinian state
• Exiled Palestinian militants ran two-year reign of terror
• Zero tolerance takes toll on pupils
• Mexican soldiers in border crossings
• Privacy in Few case is exception
• Maryland farm hits it big in Derby

The action filed against the Department of Interior and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service asks for $3.75 million for each of the deceased, whose bodies were found last year in the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge between Tucson and Yuma.
Attorneys for survivors of the deceased said that U.S. Border Patrol policies had shut down more populous portions of the Arizona border and forced illegal aliens to enter through more remote areas.
"What these agencies knew — or should have known — is that by doing this, and with a history of deaths in the desert, these people would cross in these dangerous areas," said A. James Clark, one of the two Yuma lawyers filing the claim. "It would have cost the government nothing to put water stations in, as it had done in other locations."
The claim says the agencies rejected a request made shortly before the deaths by the Tucson humanitarian group Humane Borders to place 60-gallon water stations in the refuge, as it has done in other parts of the desert.
"The agency was on notice that death or serious injury would likely occur," the claim states. "The denial of the agency was based upon concern over animal habitat, which outweighed human life. This decision ran contrary to the stated mission objective of the agency, which is to protect human life on its property."
The claim, which must show the existence of injury and ask for damages, is the first step to a lawsuit under federal law. If unanswered within 180 days, the claim can then become a lawsuit.
A spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Albuquerque, N.M., which oversees the refuge, acknowledged that his agency received the request for water stations last year.
"But of those places they requested to place water stations, none of them would have helped the poor people who perished there," said spokesman Tom Bauer. "In fact, the closest proposed water area for a water station was 12 miles and two mountain ranges away from where the migrants were found dead."
He added that the smugglers who were leading illegal immigrants through the more remote areas were "duping" their clients.
Several unmarked watering holes established by the government, supplied by 10,000-gallon tanks, are placed around the refuge, part of an effort to maintain the Sonoran pronghorn antelope, an endangered species.
"It is criminal that these smugglers are taking people on to that range," said Mr. Bauer, who added that 30-foot poles have been erected at some of the water holes on the refuge.
"The water has been out there for several years," Mr. Bauer. "Our idea is to mark where the water holes are as a humane gesture."
Fourteen persons died in May 2001 when smugglers led the immigrants into an area of the refuge known as the "Devil's Path" near the Mexican border.
The refuge is an 860,000-acre expanse with the closest major highway — Interstate 8 — 300 miles north of the border. Cabeza Prieta abuts a military range and offers little shade. Signs warn visitors that ground temperatures in summer can exceed 130 degrees.
In the past three years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service estimates that more than 1,000 migrants have died of various causes trying to cross into the United States.
One of the smugglers for the deceased named in the claim, Jose Lopez-Ramos, received a 16-year sentence for his role in the deaths earlier this year.
Lopez-Ramos was one of three guides working for a smuggling ring that led a group of about 30 illegal immigrants from Sonoita, Mexico, into the United States on May 19.
Each immigrant paid the smugglers $1,400 for the illegal crossing. They were told the trip would take two days and that they would walk at night to avoid detection and the searing desert sun.
The group got lost and ran out of water during the second day, Lopez-Ramos told authorities. One guide and three immigrants turned back and returned to Mexico.

Klaus · 05-13-2002, 07:57 PM

I guess the Mexicans won't be happy untill we put up a minefield, barbeb wire and automated machine guns to secure our border.

Chris · 05-13-2002, 08:08 PM

Well key word anyone.....

ILLEGAL

Sorry they died, but c'mon they can't sue if they are illegal, and the case stand up, too many liberals in the world

Dale · 05-13-2002, 09:21 PM

Chris,

I hate to say it illegal has nothing to do with this case.

The Arizona Supreme Court (as upheld by the Supreme Court) has already decided that anyone that reaches Arizona soil (any US soil in some cases...including CA) are entitled to basic amenities, to include water.

But it's nothing compared to California law that says they are entitled to health care before a US citizen.

I doubt if the law suit will prevail but it sure as heck wouldn't surprise me.

Criminy, we dealt with the INS and when we found an illegal, and if they were not committing a felony the INS would tell us to turn them loose. We, of course, had no jurisdiction to hold them after that.

Chris · 05-13-2002, 09:30 PM

Dale,
Thanks for pointing that out...that in one word.....

SUCKS

But its like the illegal immigrants who were killed in WTC, Cinton wanted to pay them....

This really bothers me, that an illegal alien gets more rights, and gets them faster than a normal citizen....

Thanks again for the info Dale

Stewart · 05-13-2002, 09:54 PM

The poor Border Patrol, they good beat up for not making the borders secure enough then when they close all of the easy Illegal crossing points they get sued for forcing people to Illegally cross at the difficult points that don't have water stations.....Is it just me or did I not see the word Illegal.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 05-14-2002, 06:12 AM

Dale noone denied these illegals such basic amenities as water. I am sure if someone was there they would have gotten the water. We cannot be held responsible for people's poor decisions.

We have a right to medical care in this country - should I then be allowed to sue if there is no doctor's office in the woods when I go hiking?

Calvin · 05-14-2002, 07:08 AM

It figures- you can sue for something this stupid, but you can't sue the police for not responding in time to a murder/rape in progress. Does anyone else see where this is heading?

Klaus · 05-14-2002, 07:11 AM

Sounds like they should be suing the CRIMINALS who were in charge of smuggling the ILLEGALS into the country. Nah, that makes way too much sense.

Dale · 05-14-2002, 07:36 AM

When I posted my reply late last night I was quite tired and upon reading this morning I realize it may appear that I was showing empathy towards the situation.

I don't condone illegals coming across our borders. And, honestly, if they choose to do so here in the desert areas of Arizona then they take their chances.

The Border Patrol and INS have their work cut out for them. They are two departments that are under staffed and many of the Border Patrol Officers are in daily peril when patroling the borders.

My comment about water and the Arizona and US Supreme Courts was just to point out that the judicial system is sadly slowly sliding more to the left.

I remember some time back Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio wanted to sue the Mexican Government, particularly Vincente Fox, to recoupe the cost of housing and feeding the many illegal aliens that end up in his jails and the jails of other counties and states that are becoming clogged with illegal aliens. This idea met a swift death when he was told to back off because it would hamper national attempts to foster a better relationship with Mexico. BS!

So, please, don't misconstrue my earlier remarks as being empathetic, or even sympathetic, to those who want to visit our great country by doing it illegally.

It might also be interesting to note that Arizona does have permanent, and announced, water stations throughout the southern portions of Arizona as the result of the Arizona and US Supreme Court rulings. It wasn't too long ago the leftists were complaining that by putting them there is entrapment since the INS and Border Patrol patrol the watering areas frequently.

****ed if you do....****ed if you don't.

Thanks.

Shaun · 05-14-2002, 09:24 AM

This is one that really irks me and I don't want you guys to think I am not empithetic but they got what they deserved. many times I have stated that we should train our military snipers on the border. The training would use live targets as they cross the border illegally. Yes Many of you will say its a bad idea but it definitely would get the word out and reduce the amount of illegal incursions into our fine country.

I believe the common sense will kick in and show that they had no sense expecting to have water in the middle of a desert

colt45 · 05-14-2002, 11:29 AM

As a former resident of both Texas and Cal. (I don't like to admit the Cal. one) I really don't want to rant and rave on this one but its just another way that the liberals have destroyed this country.
If it was up to me I would just have some of my good old boy friends and a standing open invetation to anyone thats willing to just pick their time and sit on the border locked and loaded what we call a taco shoot.
Ok, you can all take your shoots at me for theses coments now.

NRAJOE · 05-14-2002, 11:42 AM

JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE STUPID BEING WEEDED OUT.THEY ARE IN THE DESERT,THEY KNOW THEIR GONNA GET THIRSTY SO THEY DON'T BRING ENOUGH WATER? NOW WE THE TAX PAYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR THEIR IGNORANCE? THANK GOD WE DON'T HAVE A LIBERAL IN THE BIG OFFICE NOW BECAUSE IT WOULD PROBABLY BE PAID!

Dan R. · 05-15-2002, 06:22 PM

Dale, I remember an earlier subject that you had posted about the county screw'n with you over the water that you get from your own well, the same libs that want to bend you over a barrel want to provide free water for people who don't belong here and are breaking the law!

Just goes to show that the libs have got thier heads firmly planted up thier a**holes.

Klaus · 05-15-2002, 06:59 PM

This kind of fecal matter will continue until we get the right to name the ATTORNEYS in a counter suit for bringing these outrageous frivolous lawsuits to court in the first place. You know "darned" well it was a " gosh darned" ambulance chasing lawyer that talked the Mexicans into pressing this suit.

05-13-2002, 07:55 PM	#1
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,089	Families of 11 dead illegals to sue U.S. May 11, 2002 Families of 11 dead illegals to sue U.S. By Steve Miller THE WASHINGTON TIMES The families of 11 immigrants who died illegally crossing into Arizona from Mexico have filed a $41 million claim against two federal agencies, saying the government's refusal to put water out in the desert contributed to the migrants' deaths. Top Stories • U.S. weighs July 4 threat • Likud rejects a Palestinian state • Exiled Palestinian militants ran two-year reign of terror • Zero tolerance takes toll on pupils • Mexican soldiers in border crossings • Privacy in Few case is exception • Maryland farm hits it big in Derby The action filed against the Department of Interior and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service asks for $3.75 million for each of the deceased, whose bodies were found last year in the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge between Tucson and Yuma. Attorneys for survivors of the deceased said that U.S. Border Patrol policies had shut down more populous portions of the Arizona border and forced illegal aliens to enter through more remote areas. "What these agencies knew — or should have known — is that by doing this, and with a history of deaths in the desert, these people would cross in these dangerous areas," said A. James Clark, one of the two Yuma lawyers filing the claim. "It would have cost the government nothing to put water stations in, as it had done in other locations." The claim says the agencies rejected a request made shortly before the deaths by the Tucson humanitarian group Humane Borders to place 60-gallon water stations in the refuge, as it has done in other parts of the desert. "The agency was on notice that death or serious injury would likely occur," the claim states. "The denial of the agency was based upon concern over animal habitat, which outweighed human life. This decision ran contrary to the stated mission objective of the agency, which is to protect human life on its property." The claim, which must show the existence of injury and ask for damages, is the first step to a lawsuit under federal law. If unanswered within 180 days, the claim can then become a lawsuit. A spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Albuquerque, N.M., which oversees the refuge, acknowledged that his agency received the request for water stations last year. "But of those places they requested to place water stations, none of them would have helped the poor people who perished there," said spokesman Tom Bauer. "In fact, the closest proposed water area for a water station was 12 miles and two mountain ranges away from where the migrants were found dead." He added that the smugglers who were leading illegal immigrants through the more remote areas were "duping" their clients. Several unmarked watering holes established by the government, supplied by 10,000-gallon tanks, are placed around the refuge, part of an effort to maintain the Sonoran pronghorn antelope, an endangered species. "It is criminal that these smugglers are taking people on to that range," said Mr. Bauer, who added that 30-foot poles have been erected at some of the water holes on the refuge. "The water has been out there for several years," Mr. Bauer. "Our idea is to mark where the water holes are as a humane gesture." Fourteen persons died in May 2001 when smugglers led the immigrants into an area of the refuge known as the "Devil's Path" near the Mexican border. The refuge is an 860,000-acre expanse with the closest major highway — Interstate 8 — 300 miles north of the border. Cabeza Prieta abuts a military range and offers little shade. Signs warn visitors that ground temperatures in summer can exceed 130 degrees. In the past three years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service estimates that more than 1,000 migrants have died of various causes trying to cross into the United States. One of the smugglers for the deceased named in the claim, Jose Lopez-Ramos, received a 16-year sentence for his role in the deaths earlier this year. Lopez-Ramos was one of three guides working for a smuggling ring that led a group of about 30 illegal immigrants from Sonoita, Mexico, into the United States on May 19. Each immigrant paid the smugglers $1,400 for the illegal crossing. They were told the trip would take two days and that they would walk at night to avoid detection and the searing desert sun. The group got lost and ran out of water during the second day, Lopez-Ramos told authorities. One guide and three immigrants turned back and returned to Mexico.

05-13-2002, 07:57 PM	#2
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	I guess the Mexicans won't be happy untill we put up a minefield, barbeb wire and automated machine guns to secure our border. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-13-2002, 08:08 PM	#3
Chris HMFIC Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,834,164 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 18	Well key word anyone..... ILLEGAL Sorry they died, but c'mon they can't sue if they are illegal, and the case stand up, too many liberals in the world __________________ Rules \| Contributing Members No one has the right to deny my personal safety Please be descriptive in your thread titles!

05-13-2002, 09:21 PM	#4
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Chris, I hate to say it illegal has nothing to do with this case. The Arizona Supreme Court (as upheld by the Supreme Court) has already decided that anyone that reaches Arizona soil (any US soil in some cases...including CA) are entitled to basic amenities, to include water. But it's nothing compared to California law that says they are entitled to health care before a US citizen. I doubt if the law suit will prevail but it sure as heck wouldn't surprise me. Criminy, we dealt with the INS and when we found an illegal, and if they were not committing a felony the INS would tell us to turn them loose. We, of course, had no jurisdiction to hold them after that. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

05-13-2002, 09:30 PM	#5
Chris HMFIC Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,834,164 Images: 19 Blog Entries: 18	Dale, Thanks for pointing that out...that in one word..... SUCKS But its like the illegal immigrants who were killed in WTC, Cinton wanted to pay them.... This really bothers me, that an illegal alien gets more rights, and gets them faster than a normal citizen.... Thanks again for the info Dale __________________ Rules \| Contributing Members No one has the right to deny my personal safety Please be descriptive in your thread titles!

05-13-2002, 09:54 PM	#6
Stewart Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calhoun, Georgia Posts: 675	The poor Border Patrol, they good beat up for not making the borders secure enough then when they close all of the easy Illegal crossing points they get sued for forcing people to Illegally cross at the difficult points that don't have water stations.....Is it just me or did I not see the word Illegal. __________________ "You can sleep well at night because rough men are willing to commit violent acts on your behalf" George Orwell

05-14-2002, 06:12 AM	#7
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,084 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	Still not fair. Dale noone denied these illegals such basic amenities as water. I am sure if someone was there they would have gotten the water. We cannot be held responsible for people's poor decisions. We have a right to medical care in this country - should I then be allowed to sue if there is no doctor's office in the woods when I go hiking? __________________ Spocrest Out!..........

05-14-2002, 07:08 AM	#8
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,995	It figures- you can sue for something this stupid, but you can't sue the police for not responding in time to a murder/rape in progress. Does anyone else see where this is heading? __________________ I've gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

05-14-2002, 07:11 AM	#9
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	Sounds like they should be suing the CRIMINALS who were in charge of smuggling the ILLEGALS into the country. Nah, that makes way too much sense. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"

05-14-2002, 07:36 AM	#10
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	When I posted my reply late last night I was quite tired and upon reading this morning I realize it may appear that I was showing empathy towards the situation. I don't condone illegals coming across our borders. And, honestly, if they choose to do so here in the desert areas of Arizona then they take their chances. The Border Patrol and INS have their work cut out for them. They are two departments that are under staffed and many of the Border Patrol Officers are in daily peril when patroling the borders. My comment about water and the Arizona and US Supreme Courts was just to point out that the judicial system is sadly slowly sliding more to the left. I remember some time back Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio wanted to sue the Mexican Government, particularly Vincente Fox, to recoupe the cost of housing and feeding the many illegal aliens that end up in his jails and the jails of other counties and states that are becoming clogged with illegal aliens. This idea met a swift death when he was told to back off because it would hamper national attempts to foster a better relationship with Mexico. BS! So, please, don't misconstrue my earlier remarks as being empathetic, or even sympathetic, to those who want to visit our great country by doing it illegally. It might also be interesting to note that Arizona does have permanent, and announced, water stations throughout the southern portions of Arizona as the result of the Arizona and US Supreme Court rulings. It wasn't too long ago the leftists were complaining that by putting them there is entrapment since the INS and Border Patrol patrol the watering areas frequently. **ed if you do....**ed if you don't. Thanks. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

05-14-2002, 09:24 AM	#11
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,592 Images: 1	This is one that really irks me and I don't want you guys to think I am not empithetic but they got what they deserved. many times I have stated that we should train our military snipers on the border. The training would use live targets as they cross the border illegally. Yes Many of you will say its a bad idea but it definitely would get the word out and reduce the amount of illegal incursions into our fine country. I believe the common sense will kick in and show that they had no sense expecting to have water in the middle of a desert __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

05-14-2002, 11:29 AM	#12
colt45 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Occupied Territories of New York (Buffalo) Posts: 2,898	As a former resident of both Texas and Cal. (I don't like to admit the Cal. one) I really don't want to rant and rave on this one but its just another way that the liberals have destroyed this country. If it was up to me I would just have some of my good old boy friends and a standing open invetation to anyone thats willing to just pick their time and sit on the border locked and loaded what we call a taco shoot. Ok, you can all take your shoots at me for theses coments now. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanalysis "If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective." - Ted Nugent "Self-defense is Nature's eldest law." -John Dryden

05-14-2002, 11:42 AM	#13
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,043 Images: 3	JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE STUPID BEING WEEDED OUT.THEY ARE IN THE DESERT,THEY KNOW THEIR GONNA GET THIRSTY SO THEY DON'T BRING ENOUGH WATER? NOW WE THE TAX PAYERS ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY FOR THEIR IGNORANCE? THANK GOD WE DON'T HAVE A LIBERAL IN THE BIG OFFICE NOW BECAUSE IT WOULD PROBABLY BE PAID! __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

05-15-2002, 06:22 PM	#14
Dan R. Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Monroe Wa. Posts: 9	Dale, I remember an earlier subject that you had posted about the county screw'n with you over the water that you get from your own well, the same libs that want to bend you over a barrel want to provide free water for people who don't belong here and are breaking the law! Just goes to show that the libs have got thier heads firmly planted up thier a**holes.

05-15-2002, 06:59 PM	#15
Klaus Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 2,383	This kind of fecal matter will continue until we get the right to name the ATTORNEYS in a counter suit for bringing these outrageous frivolous lawsuits to court in the first place. You know "darned" well it was a " gosh darned" ambulance chasing lawyer that talked the Mexicans into pressing this suit. __________________ "Gee, Wally, Eddie Haskel's mom puts out!"