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10-18-2004, 09:15 PM

Every United States Marine, regardless of his ultimate job, is trained as a rifleman. Similarly, as a Militia member your mission is to serve your community in time of need as a light infantry rifleman and your primary Militia weapon should be a military type semiautomatic rifle, preferably in a standard U.S. military caliber. With proper training and technique, a full-power battle rifle chambered for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester) or .30-06 will allow you to dominate the ground out to a range of 500 yards. The U.S. armed forces claim the same maximum effective range for the M-16 assault rifle, but in truth the 5.56mm NATO (.223 Remington) quickly loses stopping power beyond about 200 yards and few people can consistently hit a target with it beyond about 300 yards. The same is true for rifles chambered for the intermediate-powered 7.62x39mm Russian, like the SKS and Kalashnikov types. If your primary Militia weapon should be a military type rifle, why should you consider also owning a pistol caliber carbine?

Law Enforcement Use. One mission of the Militia is to assist local law enforcement and help maintain order during civil disturbances. In an urban environment your full-power battle rifle, capable of shooting through two or three houses, might not be welcome. Law enforcement officers carry handguns as defensive weapons that will always be instantly available, but most officers can't consistently hit a man with a handgun beyond about 25 yards, although a good shot with an accurate handgun can extend this range to about 50 yards. When they know they are going into a shooting situation, most law enforcement officers rely upon their riot shotgun or call out a SWAT team armed with rifles or submachine guns. Up close there is no more devastating defensive weapon than a buckshot loaded shotgun, but effective patterns and adequate stopping power are limited to about 25 yards. In a roadblock situation, buckshot has very little chance of getting inside a vehicle unless the perpetrator rolls down his window or opens his door and invites it in. 5.56mm rifles also lack sufficient penetration against vehicles. While solid slugs extend the range of a shotgun to about 50 yards and can penetrate most vehicles, they dangerously over-penetrate both suspects and building walls, endangering innocent bystanders. Hollowpoint pistol bullets tend to break up rather than ricochet and also penetrate less building materials than high power rifle bullets, presenting less danger to bystanders. A carbine is defined as a light rifle with a short barrel (usually 20" or less). A pistol caliber carbine offers a compromise between the excessive power of the military rifle or shotgun slug and the short range of the police handgun and shotgun. Many law enforcement agencies have equipped their squad cars with submachine guns or carbines as a replacement for or supplement to their traditional shotguns. As a civilian in the State of Washington you are prohibited from owning a submachine gun, so further discussion will be limited to carbines.

Advantages of Carbines. Most U.S. law enforcement agencies use either the the 9mm pistol or .38/.357 revolvers. If your Militia mission is to assist law enforcement, having a carbine that can fire their ammunition is a logistical advantage. The cowboy or frontier lawman who carried a six shooter and a lever action saddle carbine chambered for the same round knew about the advantage of having only one type of ammunition for both arms. Carrying this convenience one step further, the Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine can use any double column Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol magazine and the Marlin .45 ACP Camp Carbine uses the same magazine as the Colt Government Model pistol. An advantage carbines have over handguns is increased range and accuracy. It is generally much easier to shoot a rifle more accurately than a handgun. When fired at targets with the same cartridge, 75 or even 100 yard carbine groups are usually about the same size as 25 yard handgun groups. Pistol caliber carbines have a maximum effective range against a man-sized target of about 125 to 150 yards. Low recoil (except for the .44 Magnum) and light weight of pistol caliber carbines makes them easier for a novice to learn to shoot and easier for persons of small stature to handle than a heavy recoiling ten pound battle rifle or twelve gauge shotgun. In an defensive emergency, you may have a need to arm a trusted friend or neighbor or a responsible adolescent family member. You can show any reasonably intelligent and coordinated person how to load and operate a lever action carbine in a few minutes and they will probably be able to hit a man at a range of at least 25 yards. Having another person capable of pulling a trigger watching your back adds to your own security and allows them to provide for their own protection. If you are defending your home or another building and have to fire a high power rifle or magnum handgun, the walls, ceiling and floor all reflect and magnify the deafening muzzle blast. When firing a rifle or magnum handgun defensively, people have been known to cease firing after the first shot or even drop their weapon thinking that it has blown up. This can get you killed. A pistol caliber carbine has less muzzle blast than a handgun that fires the same cartridge and much less muzzle blast than a high power rifle. Most pistol rounds will also gain additional velocity and power when they have a longer barrel in which to burn their propellant powder. The velocity gain is more pronounced with higher pressure rounds. Low pressure rounds like the .38 Special, .44 Special or .45 ACP gain little or no extra velocity, but higher pressure +P versions of these cartridges or "hot" handloads will pick up about 100 to 200 feet per second. Standard velocity 9mm rounds gain an average of about 250 feet per second which moves them up to roughly the same stopping power level as a 9mm +P+ or .357 Magnum handgun (which is very good). When .357 and .44 Magnum rounds are fired from carbines, they gain about 500 to 600 feet per second. The increased power of pistol rounds when fired from carbines allows them to penetrate vehicles better than the same round from a handgun. They also penetrate light brush with less deflection than 5.56mm rifle bullets.

Ammunition Selection. The significant velocity gain of carbines with magnum rounds means that you must carefully select ammunition for them. Not surprisingly, hollowpoint handgun bullets are designed to expand properly at handgun velocity. When fired much faster, they will often over-expand and virtually disintegrate on target before the bullet has sufficiently penetrated. This can create a severe surface wound that may not incapacitate. While this is bad for hunting, it is much worse when your target is shooting back at you. Factory loads for the .357 or .44 Magnum which are labeled "Medium Velocity" equal the power of high velocity loads fired from handguns and make excellent carbine loads. While the .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollowpoint has the best record for stopping power from handguns, hollowpoint ammo for .357 Magnum carbines used defensively or for big game should not be lighter than 158 grains. If you want to use the same .357 Magnum load for both a handgun and a carbine, a compromise to consider would be the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip or the El Dorado 150 grain Starfire. Be aware, however, that these rounds will give less than the best performance from your handgun and might over-expand from your carbine. If the only .357 Magnum ammunition available is a light 110 or 125 grain hollowpoint, it would be better instead to use a high velocity .38 Special +P load (any weight) in your .357 Magnum carbine. Hollowpoint .44 Magnum big game or defense loads should be limited to 240 grains or heavier. For better penetration against vehicles at roadblocks, full metal jacket rounds should be used in semiautomatics and magnum cartridges should be either jacketed softpoint or heavy jacketed hollowpoint loads (i.e. 180 grain .357 Magnum or 300 grain .44 Magnum). To avoid excessive barrel leading and fouling, lead bullets should not be used in 9mm or magnum caliber carbines. Lead bullets may be used in .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 ACP cartridges or light magnum caliber handloads as long as velocity is kept below 1000 feet per second for soft lead bullets and below 1200 feet per second with hard lead alloy bullets. To prevent chain firing in lever action carbines with tubular magazines, you must use only flat point bullets. If all you have are cartridges with pointed bullets, in a pinch you can convert your lever action carbine into a two-shot repeater by loading a single cartridge directly into the chamber and then placing only one round into the otherwise empty magazine.

10-18-2004, 09:15 PM	#1
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	Pistol Caliber Carbines Every United States Marine, regardless of his ultimate job, is trained as a rifleman. Similarly, as a Militia member your mission is to serve your community in time of need as a light infantry rifleman and your primary Militia weapon should be a military type semiautomatic rifle, preferably in a standard U.S. military caliber. With proper training and technique, a full-power battle rifle chambered for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester) or .30-06 will allow you to dominate the ground out to a range of 500 yards. The U.S. armed forces claim the same maximum effective range for the M-16 assault rifle, but in truth the 5.56mm NATO (.223 Remington) quickly loses stopping power beyond about 200 yards and few people can consistently hit a target with it beyond about 300 yards. The same is true for rifles chambered for the intermediate-powered 7.62x39mm Russian, like the SKS and Kalashnikov types. If your primary Militia weapon should be a military type rifle, why should you consider also owning a pistol caliber carbine? Law Enforcement Use. One mission of the Militia is to assist local law enforcement and help maintain order during civil disturbances. In an urban environment your full-power battle rifle, capable of shooting through two or three houses, might not be welcome. Law enforcement officers carry handguns as defensive weapons that will always be instantly available, but most officers can't consistently hit a man with a handgun beyond about 25 yards, although a good shot with an accurate handgun can extend this range to about 50 yards. When they know they are going into a shooting situation, most law enforcement officers rely upon their riot shotgun or call out a SWAT team armed with rifles or submachine guns. Up close there is no more devastating defensive weapon than a buckshot loaded shotgun, but effective patterns and adequate stopping power are limited to about 25 yards. In a roadblock situation, buckshot has very little chance of getting inside a vehicle unless the perpetrator rolls down his window or opens his door and invites it in. 5.56mm rifles also lack sufficient penetration against vehicles. While solid slugs extend the range of a shotgun to about 50 yards and can penetrate most vehicles, they dangerously over-penetrate both suspects and building walls, endangering innocent bystanders. Hollowpoint pistol bullets tend to break up rather than ricochet and also penetrate less building materials than high power rifle bullets, presenting less danger to bystanders. A carbine is defined as a light rifle with a short barrel (usually 20" or less). A pistol caliber carbine offers a compromise between the excessive power of the military rifle or shotgun slug and the short range of the police handgun and shotgun. Many law enforcement agencies have equipped their squad cars with submachine guns or carbines as a replacement for or supplement to their traditional shotguns. As a civilian in the State of Washington you are prohibited from owning a submachine gun, so further discussion will be limited to carbines. Advantages of Carbines. Most U.S. law enforcement agencies use either the the 9mm pistol or .38/.357 revolvers. If your Militia mission is to assist law enforcement, having a carbine that can fire their ammunition is a logistical advantage. The cowboy or frontier lawman who carried a six shooter and a lever action saddle carbine chambered for the same round knew about the advantage of having only one type of ammunition for both arms. Carrying this convenience one step further, the Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine can use any double column Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol magazine and the Marlin .45 ACP Camp Carbine uses the same magazine as the Colt Government Model pistol. An advantage carbines have over handguns is increased range and accuracy. It is generally much easier to shoot a rifle more accurately than a handgun. When fired at targets with the same cartridge, 75 or even 100 yard carbine groups are usually about the same size as 25 yard handgun groups. Pistol caliber carbines have a maximum effective range against a man-sized target of about 125 to 150 yards. Low recoil (except for the .44 Magnum) and light weight of pistol caliber carbines makes them easier for a novice to learn to shoot and easier for persons of small stature to handle than a heavy recoiling ten pound battle rifle or twelve gauge shotgun. In an defensive emergency, you may have a need to arm a trusted friend or neighbor or a responsible adolescent family member. You can show any reasonably intelligent and coordinated person how to load and operate a lever action carbine in a few minutes and they will probably be able to hit a man at a range of at least 25 yards. Having another person capable of pulling a trigger watching your back adds to your own security and allows them to provide for their own protection. If you are defending your home or another building and have to fire a high power rifle or magnum handgun, the walls, ceiling and floor all reflect and magnify the deafening muzzle blast. When firing a rifle or magnum handgun defensively, people have been known to cease firing after the first shot or even drop their weapon thinking that it has blown up. This can get you killed. A pistol caliber carbine has less muzzle blast than a handgun that fires the same cartridge and much less muzzle blast than a high power rifle. Most pistol rounds will also gain additional velocity and power when they have a longer barrel in which to burn their propellant powder. The velocity gain is more pronounced with higher pressure rounds. Low pressure rounds like the .38 Special, .44 Special or .45 ACP gain little or no extra velocity, but higher pressure +P versions of these cartridges or "hot" handloads will pick up about 100 to 200 feet per second. Standard velocity 9mm rounds gain an average of about 250 feet per second which moves them up to roughly the same stopping power level as a 9mm +P+ or .357 Magnum handgun (which is very good). When .357 and .44 Magnum rounds are fired from carbines, they gain about 500 to 600 feet per second. The increased power of pistol rounds when fired from carbines allows them to penetrate vehicles better than the same round from a handgun. They also penetrate light brush with less deflection than 5.56mm rifle bullets. Ammunition Selection. The significant velocity gain of carbines with magnum rounds means that you must carefully select ammunition for them. Not surprisingly, hollowpoint handgun bullets are designed to expand properly at handgun velocity. When fired much faster, they will often over-expand and virtually disintegrate on target before the bullet has sufficiently penetrated. This can create a severe surface wound that may not incapacitate. While this is bad for hunting, it is much worse when your target is shooting back at you. Factory loads for the .357 or .44 Magnum which are labeled "Medium Velocity" equal the power of high velocity loads fired from handguns and make excellent carbine loads. While the .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollowpoint has the best record for stopping power from handguns, hollowpoint ammo for .357 Magnum carbines used defensively or for big game should not be lighter than 158 grains. If you want to use the same .357 Magnum load for both a handgun and a carbine, a compromise to consider would be the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip or the El Dorado 150 grain Starfire. Be aware, however, that these rounds will give less than the best performance from your handgun and might over-expand from your carbine. If the only .357 Magnum ammunition available is a light 110 or 125 grain hollowpoint, it would be better instead to use a high velocity .38 Special +P load (any weight) in your .357 Magnum carbine. Hollowpoint .44 Magnum big game or defense loads should be limited to 240 grains or heavier. For better penetration against vehicles at roadblocks, full metal jacket rounds should be used in semiautomatics and magnum cartridges should be either jacketed softpoint or heavy jacketed hollowpoint loads (i.e. 180 grain .357 Magnum or 300 grain .44 Magnum). To avoid excessive barrel leading and fouling, lead bullets should not be used in 9mm or magnum caliber carbines. Lead bullets may be used in .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 ACP cartridges or light magnum caliber handloads as long as velocity is kept below 1000 feet per second for soft lead bullets and below 1200 feet per second with hard lead alloy bullets. To prevent chain firing in lever action carbines with tubular magazines, you must use only flat point bullets. If all you have are cartridges with pointed bullets, in a pinch you can convert your lever action carbine into a two-shot repeater by loading a single cartridge directly into the chamber and then placing only one round into the otherwise empty magazine.