hunting with pistol caliber carbines

Kabic · 01-18-2005, 01:16 AM

What say ye.

9mm carbine able to kill white tail deer reliably. At what range with what loads?

How about .40s&w carbine? At what range and what loads?

NRAJOE · 01-18-2005, 01:53 AM

Maybe I'd try it with a .40 S&W but not a 9mm...........

lefty o · 01-18-2005, 02:16 AM

at relatively close range , they will work. many states have minimun caliber requirements though.

asgard_prince · 01-18-2005, 05:11 AM

Always wanted to get a .45 LC lever gun...maybe some day when I'm rich

A 9mm is kinda small for white tail, you would be better off with the .40. You also might wanna think about a .357 mag, .44 mag, or a .45 LC. All of which come in carbines, and will pass minimum requirements in most states.

alan c. · 01-18-2005, 10:45 AM

Don't know about carbine but Stephen A Camp did an article on hunting whitetail with a 9mm.

ScottD · 01-18-2005, 05:17 PM

Concerning pistol cartridges in carbines for hunting, I would consider 357 Mag the minimum with 44 Mag much more reliable.

ScottD · 01-18-2005, 05:18 PM

Concerning pistol cartridges in carbines for hunting, I would consider 357 Mag the minimum with 44 Mag much more reliable.

Forget rimless cartridges they don't have it to kill game quickly.

Kabic · 01-18-2005, 11:46 PM

I'll admit I'm a little confused comparing the 9mm and the .40s&w.

This article states that the best rounds for the 9mm are just as good as the best rounds for the .40 s&w. It has the following examples:

Code:

Here are some samples of performance in bare gelatin:
Round               Penetration 	      Expansion 	Wound Area
Federal HydraShok
9mm 124gr +P+ 	     13.3" 	                0.67" 	            44.8 sq. in.
.40S&W 155gr 	     13.3" 	                0.68"               47.9 sq. in.
.45ACP 185gr +p      12.9" 	                0.69" 	            31.5 sq. in.
.45ACP 230gr 	     13.7" 	                0.71" 	            28.4 sq. in.
Federal PDA
9mm 135gr 	     11.5" 	                0.72" 	
.40S&W 135gr 	      9.6" 	                0.68" 	
.45ACP 165gr 	     11.3" 	                0.78" 	
Remington Golden Saber
9mm 147gr 	     12.8" 	                0.68" 	
.40S&W 165gr 	     12.5" 	                0.67" 	
.45ACP 230gr 	     14.1" 	                0.76"

So looking at this data what is the major difference between the 9mm and .40s&w.

I ask because I'm planning on getting a carbine and am waivering between the 9mm version and .40s&w version. Would I really use for deer hunting? I doubt it but it would be nice to have the option.

BattleRifleG3 · 01-19-2005, 12:31 AM

40 would no doubt be better for hunting than 9mm. Whether it would be good at all is another matter. Consider Ruger's 44 Magnum carbine if you want a semi-auto. Or a levergun.

Or a far better choice for a short range semi-auto hunting rifle would be the venerable SKS. Ammo is significantly cheaper, rifle is less than half the cost. For the same or better price ammowise and gunwise as a 40 S&W carbine, you could buy a CETME or Saiga in 308 (Saigas also come in milder calibers), good for all ranges of hunting deer sized game.

alan c. · 01-19-2005, 11:24 AM

I made a mistake and edited my previous post.
9mm-whitetail deer.
Stephen A. Camp.

Rave · 01-24-2005, 01:25 PM

I wouldn't hunt deer with either 9mm nor .40S&W as I am concerned with clean kills as possible,to me both are defense weapons.
In pistol caliber carbines the .44 mag is the minimum for humane hunting.

Shaun · 01-24-2005, 01:35 PM

I agree Rave a responsible hunter is always looking for a clean single shot kill and that means using a caliber to handle the job -- common handgun calibers are defensive and not for hunting

gunssb · 01-24-2005, 01:42 PM

I believe some states don't allow even a 357 for deer...

tommy · 01-24-2005, 02:43 PM

back in the old western days the old .44s&w load would drop a man or a deer . i haven't seen anyone say anything about the .44s&w round.wasn't it used in rifles and pistols in the old days.???

Shaun · 01-24-2005, 03:12 PM

Tommy I am sure the 44 S&W has many kills to its name like the 22 LR. But for humane kills I want a round that doesn't require a shot in the eye or ear

tommy · 01-24-2005, 06:53 PM

what about a .44s&w in a rifle wouldn't that give it more velocity? just asking.not that i would hunt with the round but i was just woundering how much a rifle would change the velocity of the bullet or would change it at all???

Shaun · 01-24-2005, 07:08 PM

if its a pistol cartridge in a rifle you could be talking about a velocity reduction

DANA · 01-24-2005, 10:00 PM

Got two M1 carbine conversions in 45 Win Mag and 50AE

DANA

tommy · 01-24-2005, 11:09 PM

well ok answer me this question was the .44 special round first made for a rifle or a pistol?

RonfrmSC · 01-27-2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

at relatively close range , they will work. many states have minimun caliber requirements though.

S.C. has a minimum energy requirement, add in the 230 fps you can get from a hot hand load in the carbine's 16 inch barrel and you get real close to 357 mag's rating of 500 ft lbs with a 115gr jacketed HP 9mm.

Remember you wanna go with a slower burning powder to get the extra M/V from a carbine.

Limit your shot's to 50 yds or less and you have one dead deer

Ron

01-18-2005, 01:16 AM	#1
Kabic Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4	hunting with pistol caliber carbines What say ye. 9mm carbine able to kill white tail deer reliably. At what range with what loads? How about .40s&w carbine? At what range and what loads?

01-18-2005, 01:53 AM	#2
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,177 Images: 3	Maybe I'd try it with a .40 S&W but not a 9mm........... __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

01-18-2005, 05:11 AM	#4
asgard_prince Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: BACKWOODS PA Posts: 168	Always wanted to get a .45 LC lever gun...maybe some day when I'm rich A 9mm is kinda small for white tail, you would be better off with the .40. You also might wanna think about a .357 mag, .44 mag, or a .45 LC. All of which come in carbines, and will pass minimum requirements in most states. __________________ ALL FEAR THE SENTINAL

01-18-2005, 10:45 AM	#5
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,769 Images: 15 Blog Entries: 2	Don't know about carbine but Stephen A Camp did an article on hunting whitetail with a 9mm. Last edited by alan c.; 01-19-2005 at 11:11 AM.

01-18-2005, 05:17 PM	#6
ScottD Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Evanston, IL Posts: 1,020	Concerning pistol cartridges in carbines for hunting, I would consider 357 Mag the minimum with 44 Mag much more reliable. __________________ "Some people can not live without wilderness"-Aldo Leopold

01-18-2005, 02:16 AM	#3
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 5,028	at relatively close range , they will work. many states have minimun caliber requirements though.

01-18-2005, 05:18 PM	#7
ScottD Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Evanston, IL Posts: 1,020	Concerning pistol cartridges in carbines for hunting, I would consider 357 Mag the minimum with 44 Mag much more reliable. Forget rimless cartridges they don't have it to kill game quickly. __________________ "Some people can not live without wilderness"-Aldo Leopold

01-18-2005, 11:46 PM	#8
Kabic Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4	I'll admit I'm a little confused comparing the 9mm and the .40s&w. This article states that the best rounds for the 9mm are just as good as the best rounds for the .40 s&w. It has the following examples: Code: Here are some samples of performance in bare gelatin: Round Penetration Expansion Wound Area Federal HydraShok 9mm 124gr +P+ 13.3" 0.67" 44.8 sq. in. .40S&W 155gr 13.3" 0.68" 47.9 sq. in. .45ACP 185gr +p 12.9" 0.69" 31.5 sq. in. .45ACP 230gr 13.7" 0.71" 28.4 sq. in. Federal PDA 9mm 135gr 11.5" 0.72" .40S&W 135gr 9.6" 0.68" .45ACP 165gr 11.3" 0.78" Remington Golden Saber 9mm 147gr 12.8" 0.68" .40S&W 165gr 12.5" 0.67" .45ACP 230gr 14.1" 0.76" So looking at this data what is the major difference between the 9mm and .40s&w. I ask because I'm planning on getting a carbine and am waivering between the 9mm version and .40s&w version. Would I really use for deer hunting? I doubt it but it would be nice to have the option.

01-19-2005, 12:31 AM	#9
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,429 Images: 13	40 would no doubt be better for hunting than 9mm. Whether it would be good at all is another matter. Consider Ruger's 44 Magnum carbine if you want a semi-auto. Or a levergun. Or a far better choice for a short range semi-auto hunting rifle would be the venerable SKS. Ammo is significantly cheaper, rifle is less than half the cost. For the same or better price ammowise and gunwise as a 40 S&W carbine, you could buy a CETME or Saiga in 308 (Saigas also come in milder calibers), good for all ranges of hunting deer sized game. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf Last edited by BattleRifleG3; 01-19-2005 at 12:33 AM.

01-19-2005, 11:24 AM	#10
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,769 Images: 15 Blog Entries: 2	I made a mistake and edited my previous post. 9mm-whitetail deer. Stephen A. Camp.

01-24-2005, 01:25 PM	#11
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 7,014	I wouldn't hunt deer with either 9mm nor .40S&W as I am concerned with clean kills as possible,to me both are defense weapons. In pistol caliber carbines the .44 mag is the minimum for humane hunting. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

01-24-2005, 01:35 PM	#12
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,599 Images: 1	I agree Rave a responsible hunter is always looking for a clean single shot kill and that means using a caliber to handle the job -- common handgun calibers are defensive and not for hunting __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-24-2005, 01:42 PM	#13
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	I believe some states don't allow even a 357 for deer...

01-24-2005, 02:43 PM	#14
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,099 Images: 6	back in the old western days the old .44s&w load would drop a man or a deer . i haven't seen anyone say anything about the .44s&w round.wasn't it used in rifles and pistols in the old days.???

01-24-2005, 03:12 PM	#15
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,599 Images: 1	Tommy I am sure the 44 S&W has many kills to its name like the 22 LR. But for humane kills I want a round that doesn't require a shot in the eye or ear __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-24-2005, 06:53 PM	#16
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,099 Images: 6	what about a .44s&w in a rifle wouldn't that give it more velocity? just asking.not that i would hunt with the round but i was just woundering how much a rifle would change the velocity of the bullet or would change it at all???

01-24-2005, 07:08 PM	#17
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,599 Images: 1	if its a pistol cartridge in a rifle you could be talking about a velocity reduction __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

01-24-2005, 10:00 PM	#18
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,602	Got two M1 carbine conversions in 45 Win Mag and 50AE DANA

01-24-2005, 11:09 PM	#19
tommy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: schriever la Posts: 4,099 Images: 6	well ok answer me this question was the .44 special round first made for a rifle or a pistol? Last edited by tommy; 01-24-2005 at 11:13 PM.