Bill banning assault pistol is introduced

03-07-2005, 04:11 PM

DONNA DE LA CRUZ

WASHINGTON -- The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big punch _ its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest. One of the weapons was recently pulled off the streets of Camden County, N.J., and New Jersey and New York lawmakers want them out of the hands of the public for good.

New Jersey Democratic Sens. Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., on Thursday introduced a bill that would make it illegal for anyone except a police officer or military official to possess the assault pistol.

In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert" regarding the pistol with the headline "body armor defeating handgun." The alert said that the Trumbull, Conn., police department had seized such a pistol and noted that its bullets were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters."

The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the general public to own the gun _ you wouldn't buy it for hunting, for example.

"This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said. "Who needs one of these? The only reason is for violence."

The Protect Law Enforcement Armor (PLEA) Act would ban the sale, purchase and use of the handgun and its ammunition by anyone other than a police officer or military official. The bill would also prohibit the gun and bullets from being made in the United States.

Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi urged lawmakers to support the bill, calling it a test case.

"If we let this one slip by, the flood gates will open," Sarubbi said.

A Five-SeveN gun was found on an alleged drug dealer in December during a drug investigation in Camden County, Sarubbi said. The gun had been purchased in Philadelphia using a false name and false Social Security number, he said.

Peter Newsham, the assistant chief of the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police, said his department recently tested the gun and it penetrated a Kevlar vest.

"The danger of this gun is that it can be concealed," he said. He, too, urged Congress to support the bill.

Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment.

The pistol is made by the Belgian company FN Herstal, which has a U.S. division in McLean, Va. Richard DeMilt, director of sales and marketing for the U.S. division, said the pistol has been approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the only ammunition available to the public are cartridges approved by the agency.

The bullets that can penetrate Kevlar vests are sold only to law enforcement and military agencies, and that ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs-controlled warehouse, DeMilt said.

That information was little comfort to Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire New Jersey, a group that seeks to reduce gun violence. His brother, an FBI agent, was killed along with two other agents when a gunman burst into their Washington, D.C., office in 1994 and opened fire with an assault weapon.

"There's no such thing as closure," Miller said at the news conference. "Police officers should not have to face this kind of gun."

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...ion-apnewjersey

03-07-2005, 04:14 PM

"Assault Pistol"

DANA · 03-07-2005, 04:29 PM

Got mine at a gun show this last weekend. The ammo is the only thing ATF has had anything to say about. Were going to recall the ammo sold to date for the public but it was not AP. Will have to see what comes?

DANA

Shaun · 03-07-2005, 04:30 PM

Link is invalid and a Full Auto pistol is already covered by Class III NFA laws

okay here is a link to a review of the gun all they are doing is pushing a small caliber very fast http://www.fortliberty.org/military-...y/fn-5.7.shtml
http://www.savvysurvivor.com/fn_5.htm

After reading these I may have to buy one looks like a good defensive round for attacking squirrels

Direct from the ATF - http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

03-07-2005, 04:32 PM

5.7 x 28mm WEAPON SYSTEM

The 5.7 x 28mm weapon system is comprised of three components: the 5.7 x 28mm ammunition; the P90 SMG; and the Five-seveN handgun. The 5.7 x 28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between 9mm and 5.56 x 45mm. The bullet from the 9mm FMJ cartridge will not penetrate modern body-armor and the 5.56 x 45mm (.223 Rem.) ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in close-quarters combat situations or urban warfare. The SS190 has a unique design which utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel-penetrator in front of an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after approximately two inches, virtually eliminating any risk of over-penetration. This also creates a larger wound cavity and quicker incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar at 200 meters when fired from the P90 and achieve the same result out to 50 meters with the Five-seveN handgun. The 5.7 x 28mm produces only 60% of the recoil impulse of 9mm ammunition. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346 fps when fired from the P90 and 2,133 fps from the Five-seveN handgun.

from http://www.smg4u.com/WeaponSystem.htm

03-07-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DANA

Got mine at a gun show this last weekend.

when I grow up I want to be like you Dana :right: so what do you think of it ?

Big Dog · 03-07-2005, 04:53 PM

Silly politicians - any handgun can defeat any level of body armor. Just aim higher . . .

Under the right conditions, even the lowly .22LR or .22 WMR can punch thru kevlar.

But then, ultimately they do want to ban them all.

DANA · 03-07-2005, 04:57 PM

You can put it in your pocket if it is large one. There are many handguns much smaller than the h.s.10m. It is just about the same as my 221 fireball. But I don't think they are close enough. Will have to see and measure when I have the time.

DANA

gunssb · 03-07-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Under the right conditions, even the lowly .22LR or .22 WMR can punch thru kevlar.

yup - didn't the shot to the back of RFK's head with a 22 the one that got him ?

PAPA G · 03-08-2005, 08:00 AM

ahhh, good old NJ, usual suspects usual crapola.

lived near, and worked in Camden, the toilet of the world. did the article mention anything at all about the gang banger that had it??? no because its all about banning guns. nothing more.

03-08-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAPA G

did the article mention anything at all about the gang banger that had it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logansdad

A Five-SeveN gun was found on an alleged drug dealer in December during a drug investigation in Camden County, Sarubbi said. The gun had been purchased in Philadelphia using a false name and false Social Security number, he said.

PAPA G · 03-08-2005, 08:25 AM

yeah, alleged drug dealer, how about his record, how many times he been busted, how many times did the system let him out. its the SAME OLD SHITE. ban the insturment not the criminal.

Shaun · 03-08-2005, 09:00 AM

another point that needs be be clarrified is that this round is rated at over 2,000 fps most LEO vests are limited at the highest to 1450fps -- with the average vest being designed for no more than a 357 at about 1100-1200 fps. My old vest a 3a was rated to stop the 1450fps 44 magnum. 2000fps is like putting a knife through the vest

03-08-2005, 01:45 PM

if I were a violent criminal shooting it out with the police..I would assume every police officer wears the bulletproof vest and direct my fire accordingly..

BattleRifleG3 · 03-08-2005, 02:09 PM

A comic reinterpretation of the thread's title:

"Hi, this is Bill, he bans assault pistols."

Or even better:

"Now, for the first time ever, the tactical achievement of the decade; straight from the labs of Bill Banning himself, comes the Bill Banning Assault Pistol. This isn't no John Doe or Joe Blutz pistol, no, this is the Bill Banning limited edition assault pistol itself! Comes with a collector's plate signed by Bill Banning himself, who test fired it with his own hand."

DANA · 03-08-2005, 03:16 PM

5.7x28 vis 221 Fireball. Look much alike but not close enough to use in each other firearms

DANA

Apollyon67 · 03-08-2005, 09:06 PM

Dana and ballistics are relatively the same? Do they make a carbine in that round (5.7x28)?

BattleRifleG3 · 03-08-2005, 09:12 PM

Sort of, it's called the FN P90, a submachine gun.

According to their press and shot show demos, they are going tobe offering a civilian legal version in semi-automatic with a 16" barrel.

DANA · 03-09-2005, 05:36 AM

BattleRifleG3 covered your question

DANA

Apollyon67 · 03-09-2005, 08:12 PM

Sure did, thanks BRG

03-07-2005, 04:11 PM	#1
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	Bill banning assault pistol is introduced DONNA DE LA CRUZ WASHINGTON -- The Five-SeveN pistol is small enough to fit into your pocket but packs a big punch _ its bullets can penetrate a bulletproof vest. One of the weapons was recently pulled off the streets of Camden County, N.J., and New Jersey and New York lawmakers want them out of the hands of the public for good. New Jersey Democratic Sens. Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., on Thursday introduced a bill that would make it illegal for anyone except a police officer or military official to possess the assault pistol. In November, the Homeland Security Department issued an "Officer Safety Alert" regarding the pistol with the headline "body armor defeating handgun." The alert said that the Trumbull, Conn., police department had seized such a pistol and noted that its bullets were "advertised as being able to penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar at 50 meters." The lawmakers said there is no legitimate reason for members of the general public to own the gun _ you wouldn't buy it for hunting, for example. "This is not a Second Amendment issue," Corzine said. "Who needs one of these? The only reason is for violence." The Protect Law Enforcement Armor (PLEA) Act would ban the sale, purchase and use of the handgun and its ammunition by anyone other than a police officer or military official. The bill would also prohibit the gun and bullets from being made in the United States. Camden County Prosecutor Vincent Sarubbi urged lawmakers to support the bill, calling it a test case. "If we let this one slip by, the flood gates will open," Sarubbi said. A Five-SeveN gun was found on an alleged drug dealer in December during a drug investigation in Camden County, Sarubbi said. The gun had been purchased in Philadelphia using a false name and false Social Security number, he said. Peter Newsham, the assistant chief of the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police, said his department recently tested the gun and it penetrated a Kevlar vest. "The danger of this gun is that it can be concealed," he said. He, too, urged Congress to support the bill. Michael Barnes, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, challenged the National Rifle Association to defend the pistol, even daring NRA chief executive Wayne LaPierre to don a bulletproof vest to have the pistol tested. The NRA did not immediately return a telephone call for comment. The pistol is made by the Belgian company FN Herstal, which has a U.S. division in McLean, Va. Richard DeMilt, director of sales and marketing for the U.S. division, said the pistol has been approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the only ammunition available to the public are cartridges approved by the agency. The bullets that can penetrate Kevlar vests are sold only to law enforcement and military agencies, and that ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs-controlled warehouse, DeMilt said. That information was little comfort to Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire New Jersey, a group that seeks to reduce gun violence. His brother, an FBI agent, was killed along with two other agents when a gunman burst into their Washington, D.C., office in 1994 and opened fire with an assault weapon. "There's no such thing as closure," Miller said at the news conference. "Police officers should not have to face this kind of gun." http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...ion-apnewjersey

03-07-2005, 04:30 PM	#4
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	Link is invalid and a Full Auto pistol is already covered by Class III NFA laws okay here is a link to a review of the gun all they are doing is pushing a small caliber very fast http://www.fortliberty.org/military-...y/fn-5.7.shtml http://www.savvysurvivor.com/fn_5.htm After reading these I may have to buy one looks like a good defensive round for attacking squirrels Direct from the ATF - http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/ Last edited by Shaun; 03-07-2005 at 04:32 PM.

03-07-2005, 04:53 PM	#7
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,071 Trader Rating: (0)	Silly politicians - any handgun can defeat any level of body armor. Just aim higher . . . Under the right conditions, even the lowly .22LR or .22 WMR can punch thru kevlar. But then, ultimately they do want to ban them all. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

03-08-2005, 09:00 AM	#13
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	another point that needs be be clarrified is that this round is rated at over 2,000 fps most LEO vests are limited at the highest to 1450fps -- with the average vest being designed for no more than a 357 at about 1100-1200 fps. My old vest a 3a was rated to stop the 1450fps 44 magnum. 2000fps is like putting a knife through the vest __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

03-08-2005, 02:09 PM	#15
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	A comic reinterpretation of the thread's title: "Hi, this is Bill, he bans assault pistols." Or even better: "Now, for the first time ever, the tactical achievement of the decade; straight from the labs of Bill Banning himself, comes the Bill Banning Assault Pistol. This isn't no John Doe or Joe Blutz pistol, no, this is the Bill Banning limited edition assault pistol itself! Comes with a collector's plate signed by Bill Banning himself, who test fired it with his own hand." __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

03-07-2005, 04:14 PM	#2
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	"Assault Pistol"

03-07-2005, 04:29 PM	#3
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,591 Trader Rating: (0)	Got mine at a gun show this last weekend. The ammo is the only thing ATF has had anything to say about. Were going to recall the ammo sold to date for the public but it was not AP. Will have to see what comes? DANA

03-07-2005, 04:32 PM	#5
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	5.7 x 28mm WEAPON SYSTEM The 5.7 x 28mm weapon system is comprised of three components: the 5.7 x 28mm ammunition; the P90 SMG; and the Five-seveN handgun. The 5.7 x 28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between 9mm and 5.56 x 45mm. The bullet from the 9mm FMJ cartridge will not penetrate modern body-armor and the 5.56 x 45mm (.223 Rem.) ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in close-quarters combat situations or urban warfare. The SS190 has a unique design which utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel-penetrator in front of an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after approximately two inches, virtually eliminating any risk of over-penetration. This also creates a larger wound cavity and quicker incapacitation. The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar at 200 meters when fired from the P90 and achieve the same result out to 50 meters with the Five-seveN handgun. The 5.7 x 28mm produces only 60% of the recoil impulse of 9mm ammunition. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346 fps when fired from the P90 and 2,133 fps from the Five-seveN handgun. from http://www.smg4u.com/WeaponSystem.htm

03-07-2005, 04:57 PM	#8
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,591 Trader Rating: (0)	You can put it in your pocket if it is large one. There are many handguns much smaller than the h.s.10m. It is just about the same as my 221 fireball. But I don't think they are close enough. Will have to see and measure when I have the time. DANA

03-08-2005, 08:00 AM	#10
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	ahhh, good old NJ, usual suspects usual crapola. lived near, and worked in Camden, the toilet of the world. did the article mention anything at all about the gang banger that had it??? no because its all about banning guns. nothing more.

03-08-2005, 08:25 AM	#12
PAPA G Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somerset, kentucky Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	yeah, alleged drug dealer, how about his record, how many times he been busted, how many times did the system let him out. its the SAME OLD SHITE. ban the insturment not the criminal.

03-08-2005, 01:45 PM	#14
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	if I were a violent criminal shooting it out with the police..I would assume every police officer wears the bulletproof vest and direct my fire accordingly..

03-08-2005, 03:16 PM	#16
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,591 Trader Rating: (0)	5.7x28 vis 221 Fireball. Look much alike but not close enough to use in each other firearms DANA

03-08-2005, 09:06 PM	#17
Apollyon67 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,230 Trader Rating: (0)	Dana and ballistics are relatively the same? Do they make a carbine in that round (5.7x28)? __________________ "To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin

03-08-2005, 09:12 PM	#18
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Sort of, it's called the FN P90, a submachine gun. According to their press and shot show demos, they are going tobe offering a civilian legal version in semi-automatic with a 16" barrel. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

03-09-2005, 05:36 AM	#19
DANA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: WAITSFIELD VERMONT Posts: 1,591 Trader Rating: (0)	BattleRifleG3 covered your question DANA

03-09-2005, 08:12 PM	#20
Apollyon67 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,230 Trader Rating: (0)	Sure did, thanks BRG __________________ "To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin