Army reservist being held for detaining illegals at gun point at AZ Border

Shaun · 04-13-2005, 10:24 AM

got this off drudge good for the sgt. I just wish he would have done it legally by getting USBP involved instead of turning this into a criminal action that bites him. Yes he was doing what he swore to do and that was to protect this country.

PHOENIX (AP) - An Army reservist was arrested on charges of holding seven Mexicans at gunpoint at a rest stop in southern Arizona, where civilian efforts to watch for illegal immigrants have raised fears of vigilante violence.

Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was apparently acting alone and not involved with the Minuteman Project, which has organized volunteers for a monthlong effort to watch for immigrants and drug smugglers along the border.

Officials said Haab used his vehicle to stop the seven men from driving away from an interstate rest stop Sunday, then ordered them to lie on the ground or be shot.

He was being held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

``Even law enforcement has to have probable cause before taking people out of their cars and telling them to lie on the ground.

He threatened to kill them,'' Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. ``He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?''

Haab had returned from active military duty in Iraq last October and had moved to Arizona four months ago. He was being held at the Maricopa County jail and declined requests for an interview by the Arizona Republic.

Deputies said Haab ordered another driver to hold a gun on the men while he called police. The second driver left before deputies and the Border Patrol arrived, and authorities are trying to locate him.

The undocumented immigrants were being held by the Border Patrol in Yuma.

Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts. ``His weapon should have been his cellphone,'' he said.

The Border Patrol has said the civilian projects could interfere with its own efforts to secure the border, and the government of Mexico has said it would monitor the projects out of concern that Mexican citizens might be abused.

Arizona is considered the most vulnerable stretch of the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the Border Patrol last year, more than half crossed the border into Arizona.

Rugged · 04-13-2005, 11:02 AM

Sad,

I don't see any assault. He was stopping a felony. Making a citizens arrest.

Rave · 04-13-2005, 11:36 AM

Yet another sign of the times,make a criminal out of a defender of our country,let the flow of illegals continue,something is mighty fishey going on and I don't like the smell of it!

gunssb · 04-13-2005, 11:43 AM

Something like this was bound to happen - now wait & watch as the other side heaves bad publicity. He was trying to do the right thing but not the best possible means - if the Arpario guy says he was acting contrary to the law, I'll take his word for it - everyone knows he's not PC.

Doglips · 04-13-2005, 12:28 PM

The goverment has been looking to bust the people involved with the miniutman project...probly more agents watching them than watching the boarder....sad.

Shaun · 04-13-2005, 12:36 PM

This reservist has no affialtion with the Minuteman Project he was acting on his own

musicmaniac · 04-13-2005, 01:49 PM

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great sheriff, but it seems a little ridiculous to detain a guy for stopping a felony. Maybe there was a better way he could have handled it... but I think that he was doing the best that he could do to stop illegals from crossing over...

GUNRUNNER · 04-13-2005, 01:59 PM

He threatened to kill them,'' Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. ``He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?''

But they were....

gunssb · 04-13-2005, 02:54 PM

Although as much as I dislike illegals crossing over, threatening to kill them doesn't fit the bill. Like it or not, threatening to kill any human being without any direct evidence that he's engaging or about to engage in a violent act in a non combat situation is not something the law is going to overlook. That being said, the border patrol should be recruiting the minuteman fellers - wackos like this guy are only going to hurt them -- Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts.

ShooMac · 04-13-2005, 03:15 PM

Hypothetical exercise:
You and your buds are on a road trip. You need to drain the lizard so you pull over at a rest stop. Joe-army-reservist-wearing-street-clothes-and-no-badge sees you and, based on his magical powers of crime-solving deduction, decides that you are international jewel thieves.
He pulls out a gun, points it at you, tells you to lie face down on the ground or HE WILL FREAKING SHOOT YOU DEAD! Oh, and lets say that he says it in something other than your first language.
Are you telling me that you would comply and wait for law enforcement to show up and sort out the situation, then decline to press charges because, aw shucks, it really was not a big deal? Because if you are, I do not know which one of you is the bigger dope.
I would throw down on the SOB and then DEMAND that he be charged with a whole mess of felonies, on the off chance he survived.

04-13-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugged

He was stopping a felony

Felony ?..try misdemeaner

I hope he goes to Leavenworth

Shaun · 04-13-2005, 04:07 PM

LD he was not acting under the authority of the Mil and I am sure he would be held in the AZ State pens

04-13-2005, 04:13 PM

GOOD ! :right: hope he gets court martialed too :jaw:

Rugged · 04-13-2005, 04:31 PM

What happens when you court martial an Army reservist? do they have to become an Air force reservist?

don't get hissy over there logansdad... you know they deserved to be shot.

04-13-2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rugged

you know they deserved to be shot.

so did he Drugged

Rugged · 04-13-2005, 04:46 PM

OMG.

Wordplay-on-name!
Take your seats children, second grade is now in session.

04-13-2005, 05:21 PM

but it was funny :right:

Snakebite · 04-13-2005, 05:35 PM

This guy was just plain wrong. He's lucky he doesnt have 7 counts of kidnapping added to the charges.
I've seen illegals in the desert while bike riding or 4-wheeling but I sure as heck wouldnt pull a gun on them, even though I always have one on me when going near the border.
The Minute Man project is going very good. Better than expected. These guys arent vigilantes at all. Most are older retired people just wanting to help and they have done a darn good job.

Rugged · 04-13-2005, 05:47 PM

can't be kidnapping. Doesn't have the elements for kidnapping or false imprisonment.
barely fits the elements for Apprehension of receiving a battery assault.

My guess is once a judge looks at it the charges will be dropped.

GUNRUNNER · 04-13-2005, 05:54 PM

Kill 'em all...let GOD sort 'em out.

04-13-2005, 10:24 AM	#1
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	Army reservist being held for detaining illegals at gun point at AZ Border got this off drudge good for the sgt. I just wish he would have done it legally by getting USBP involved instead of turning this into a criminal action that bites him. Yes he was doing what he swore to do and that was to protect this country. PHOENIX (AP) - An Army reservist was arrested on charges of holding seven Mexicans at gunpoint at a rest stop in southern Arizona, where civilian efforts to watch for illegal immigrants have raised fears of vigilante violence. Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was apparently acting alone and not involved with the Minuteman Project, which has organized volunteers for a monthlong effort to watch for immigrants and drug smugglers along the border. Officials said Haab used his vehicle to stop the seven men from driving away from an interstate rest stop Sunday, then ordered them to lie on the ground or be shot. He was being held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. ``Even law enforcement has to have probable cause before taking people out of their cars and telling them to lie on the ground. He threatened to kill them,'' Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. ``He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?'' Haab had returned from active military duty in Iraq last October and had moved to Arizona four months ago. He was being held at the Maricopa County jail and declined requests for an interview by the Arizona Republic. Deputies said Haab ordered another driver to hold a gun on the men while he called police. The second driver left before deputies and the Border Patrol arrived, and authorities are trying to locate him. The undocumented immigrants were being held by the Border Patrol in Yuma. Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts. ``His weapon should have been his cellphone,'' he said. The Border Patrol has said the civilian projects could interfere with its own efforts to secure the border, and the government of Mexico has said it would monitor the projects out of concern that Mexican citizens might be abused. Arizona is considered the most vulnerable stretch of the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the Border Patrol last year, more than half crossed the border into Arizona. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

04-13-2005, 11:02 AM	#2
Rugged Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 392 Trader Rating: (0)	Sad, I don't see any assault. He was stopping a felony. Making a citizens arrest. __________________ http://www.thedrunken.net/images/mis...rderpatrol.jpg

04-13-2005, 11:36 AM	#3
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,744 Trader Rating: (0)	Yet another sign of the times,make a criminal out of a defender of our country,let the flow of illegals continue,something is mighty fishey going on and I don't like the smell of it! __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

04-13-2005, 12:36 PM	#6
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	This reservist has no affialtion with the Minuteman Project he was acting on his own __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

04-13-2005, 02:54 PM	#9
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833 Trader Rating: (0)	Although as much as I dislike illegals crossing over, threatening to kill them doesn't fit the bill. Like it or not, threatening to kill any human being without any direct evidence that he's engaging or about to engage in a violent act in a non combat situation is not something the law is going to overlook. That being said, the border patrol should be recruiting the minuteman fellers - wackos like this guy are only going to hurt them -- Jim Gilchrist, an organizer of the Minuteman Project, denounced Haab's alleged acts. Last edited by gunssb; 04-13-2005 at 03:11 PM.

04-13-2005, 11:43 AM	#4
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833 Trader Rating: (0)	Something like this was bound to happen - now wait & watch as the other side heaves bad publicity. He was trying to do the right thing but not the best possible means - if the Arpario guy says he was acting contrary to the law, I'll take his word for it - everyone knows he's not PC.

04-13-2005, 12:28 PM	#5
Doglips Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cocoa Florida Posts: 9,090 Trader Rating: (0)	The goverment has been looking to bust the people involved with the miniutman project...probly more agents watching them than watching the boarder....sad.

04-13-2005, 01:49 PM	#7
musicmaniac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 457 Trader Rating: (0)	Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a great sheriff, but it seems a little ridiculous to detain a guy for stopping a felony. Maybe there was a better way he could have handled it... but I think that he was doing the best that he could do to stop illegals from crossing over...

04-13-2005, 01:59 PM	#8
GUNRUNNER Guest Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NRAJOEVILLE...A crazy, happy little place. Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (0)	He threatened to kill them,'' Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. ``He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?'' But they were....

04-13-2005, 03:15 PM	#10
ShooMac Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 354 Trader Rating: (0)	Hypothetical exercise: You and your buds are on a road trip. You need to drain the lizard so you pull over at a rest stop. Joe-army-reservist-wearing-street-clothes-and-no-badge sees you and, based on his magical powers of crime-solving deduction, decides that you are international jewel thieves. He pulls out a gun, points it at you, tells you to lie face down on the ground or HE WILL FREAKING SHOOT YOU DEAD! Oh, and lets say that he says it in something other than your first language. Are you telling me that you would comply and wait for law enforcement to show up and sort out the situation, then decline to press charges because, aw shucks, it really was not a big deal? Because if you are, I do not know which one of you is the bigger dope. I would throw down on the SOB and then DEMAND that he be charged with a whole mess of felonies, on the off chance he survived. __________________ "Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun." - Ash

04-13-2005, 04:07 PM	#12
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,585 Trader Rating: (0)	LD he was not acting under the authority of the Mil and I am sure he would be held in the AZ State pens __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

04-13-2005, 04:13 PM	#13
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	GOOD ! :right: hope he gets court martialed too :jaw:

04-13-2005, 04:31 PM	#14
Rugged Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 392 Trader Rating: (0)	What happens when you court martial an Army reservist? do they have to become an Air force reservist? don't get hissy over there logansdad... you know they deserved to be shot. __________________ http://www.thedrunken.net/images/mis...rderpatrol.jpg

04-13-2005, 04:46 PM	#16
Rugged Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 392 Trader Rating: (0)	OMG. Wordplay-on-name! Take your seats children, second grade is now in session. __________________ http://www.thedrunken.net/images/mis...rderpatrol.jpg

04-13-2005, 05:21 PM	#17
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	but it was funny :right:

04-13-2005, 05:35 PM	#18
Snakebite Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tucson, Mexico Posts: 1,837 Trader Rating: (0)	This guy was just plain wrong. He's lucky he doesnt have 7 counts of kidnapping added to the charges. I've seen illegals in the desert while bike riding or 4-wheeling but I sure as heck wouldnt pull a gun on them, even though I always have one on me when going near the border. The Minute Man project is going very good. Better than expected. These guys arent vigilantes at all. Most are older retired people just wanting to help and they have done a darn good job.

04-13-2005, 05:47 PM	#19
Rugged Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 392 Trader Rating: (0)	can't be kidnapping. Doesn't have the elements for kidnapping or false imprisonment. barely fits the elements for Apprehension of receiving a battery assault. My guess is once a judge looks at it the charges will be dropped. __________________ http://www.thedrunken.net/images/mis...rderpatrol.jpg

04-13-2005, 05:54 PM	#20
GUNRUNNER Guest Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NRAJOEVILLE...A crazy, happy little place. Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (0)	Kill 'em all...let GOD sort 'em out.