Army reservist being held for detaining illegals at gun point at AZ Border - Page 4

Rufus Rhastus J · 04-16-2005, 09:13 AM

Very good points, Rave! As to my own situation, I feel even more frustration when I see how the gumint acts (read: doesn't act) concerning these criminals. I noticed there was no comment to Rufus's crazy ideas about it. Fine, so i'm nuts. But, there is clearly something going on with the white house folks who don't want to protect our borders. they all want to steal our rights away in the name of homeland security but, refuse to address the most serious of homeland security problems. go figure, must be that new voting block I been talking about. Rave, you are not alone. I'm mad as he**, too. Problem is, nobody but, a few of us, really cares. Bush sure as heck doesn't.

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 09:33 AM

illegal aliens are terrorists and should be shot on sight. they know what they are doing is illegal or else they would come through at the legitimate border crossing like the other decent people. and i personally dont care if its the mexican aliens or canadians, they should be considered terrorists and be shot. i personally think this soilder did the right thing, he may have gone about it slightly wrong , but he was correct.

Rave · 04-16-2005, 09:35 AM

I would hate to think that we are being sold out for votes,but it appears that this may be the situation. if Bush thinks he will get more votes by letting them in and supporting them it doesn't appear that it is working,at least not yet.The Democrats still get 80+% of the Latino vote.
But time will tell. What a lousey situation!

toolman · 04-16-2005, 11:53 AM

The biggest prob. we face in Tx. and I'm sure the other states bordering Mexico as well, is lack of border patrol applicants-it's not much fun running around the desert in 114 deg. temps chasing illegals who may also be armed drug smugglers. I'm not saying this in defense of the white house or anyone else, but, it is a big border and takes a whole bunch of policing. I have friends in law enforcement that will testify that very few people want the job.

gunssb · 04-16-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

illegal aliens are terrorists and should be shot on sight.

wow.

terrorism:
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

terror:
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French terreur, from Latin terror, from terrEre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble -- more at TREMBLE
1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect <the terrors of invasion> c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands <insurrection and revolutionary terror>

illegal:
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Medieval Latin; Middle French illegal, from Medieval Latin illegalis, from Latin in- + legalis legal: not according to or authorized by law

alien:
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin alienus, from alius
1 a : belonging or relating to another person, place, or thing : STRANGE b : relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government : FOREIGN
2 : differing in nature or character typically to the point of incompatibility

In the present context, this would mean, that an illegal alien is someone who is "relating, belonging, or owing allegiance to another country or government" AND "not according to or authorized by law"

Sure, they're causing lot of socio-economic problems and some might be terrorists, but I don't see how ALL illegal aliens can be classified as people who perpetrate "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion".

Source: merriam-webster.com

Although, by the strict definition, one could pick up:
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect <the terrors of invasion> c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT

Yet, terrorism as we know it today is generally thought of as 1, 3 or 4 (i.e. associated with some form of extreme violence to achieve some ends).

Note: lefty o, I have nothing but respect for you so please consider this as an argument and not a personal attack.

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 12:41 PM

i dont consider it an attack. my take is that if your first act in this country is illegal, then your are a terrorist. now they may not have bombs or even guns, but they come here in violation of the law and every act there after is illegal and undermines the fabric of this society which in my opinion is an act of terrorism. i would have absolutely no problem with these aliens if they would walk upright into this country with good intentions, instead of sneaking through the crack in the fence like a rabid dog.

04-16-2005, 01:10 PM

nobody ever complains about the Canadians...oh yeah..most of them are White !

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 01:20 PM

no LD it has nothing to do with their skin color. the simple fact is that most canucks that want to come and live and work in this country do it legally. i really wish you wouldnt throw around racist insinuations.

gunssb · 04-16-2005, 01:38 PM

This is regarding legal immigrants alone. Some people here hold the view that legal immigrants pose an economic burden on the society and hence should be invite alone. A lot of people believe that this is actually contrary to the reality. Here is one such view http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=1600

"In 1976 the Census Bureau interviewed 156,000 households (including about 15,000 immigrant families) to learn about 1975 family income and welfare services patterns. From this sample I constructed a picture of lifetime economic behavior by assuming that the information on the sample immigrants who had been here, say, two years, or ten years (as of 1975) described the representative immigrant family after two years, or after ten years.

For all transfers and services, the average immigrant family was found to receive $1,404 in welfare services in years 1 to 5, $1,941 in years 6 to 10, $2,247 in years 11 to 15, and $2,279 in years 16 to 25. Native families overall averaged $2,279.

One important reason for this is that immigrants typically arrive when they are young and strong, and they do not bring elderly persons with them who might be a burden on the system. When these immigrants retire, their children support them with their taxes, as in the case of natives.

If immigrants paid relatively little in taxes, they might still burden natives, even with fewer welfare services for immigrants than for natives. While there is no direct information on taxes paid, data on family earnings allow a reliable estimate.

Within three to five years after entry, immigrant family earnings reach and pass those of the average native family. The average native family paid an estimated $3,008 in taxes in 1975. In comparison, immigrant families here 10 years paid $3,359, those here 11 to 15 years paid $3,564, and those here 16 to 25 years paid $3,592. Such substantial differences benefit natives.

Assuming that 20 per cent of taxes finance activities that are little affected by population size (for example, maintaining the armed forces and the Statue of Liberty), the data on services used and taxes paid, taken together, show substantial differences that benefit natives: an average of $1,354 yearly for years 1 to 5, and $1,329, $1,535, and $1,353 for years 6 to 10, 11 to 15, and 16 to 25 respectively. These are the amounts by which each additional immigrant family enriches U.S. public coffers. Evaluating the future stream of differences as one would a dam or harbor, the present value of an immigrant family discounted at 3 per cent (inflation adjusted) was $20,600 in 1975 ‘dollars, almost two years’ average earnings for a native family: at 6 per cent the present value is $15,800, and $12,400 at 9 per cent. We can conclude, then, that immigrants, far from causing unemployment and costing society more than they contribute, are a direct, dollars-and-cents economic asset to the community.
"

04-16-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

i really wish you wouldnt throw around racist insinuations

especially when I'm right

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 04:55 PM

you are not right. never once on this sight have i made any racist remarks about mexicans. so you can climb off of your high horse, pull that stick out of your !!!!! and go "F" yourself!

04-16-2005, 05:20 PM

this is me trying to look surprised

04-16-2005, 05:24 PM

like I said..this wouldn't make everybody mad if they were white

but they aren't

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 05:41 PM

like i said you mouthy little b_itch, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin. heck ive even dated a mexican ( you can add a couple of other colored races in here if you wish)woman a few years ago, but she was a legal immigrant. so maybe you might want to check your punk attitude at the door before you start calling people racists. now you can call me a lot of other names and it wouldnt really upset me, but dont think about calling me a racist because i am not. there are certain things in life i will not tolerate from others, and this is one of them.

lefty o · 04-16-2005, 05:54 PM

im sorry evryone, LD apparently isnt happy if he doesnt have someone to flame and somehow i sank down to his level- or lower. LD im done with you , dont care for you so move on and try flaming someone else.

04-16-2005, 06:24 PM

you done showing off how tough you can be on the internet ? I don't even look scared do I ? :right: now like I said maybe if they weren't so swarthy y'all wouldn't hate them so much

SPOCAHP ANAR · 04-16-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus Rhastus J

Bush sure as heck doesn't.

That's right; he loves them; remember all the giveaways he was passing out in the first election. Amnesty day, Amnesty Day II, Housing subsidies for poor latinos..... Looks like it worked, he got reelected.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 04-16-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty o

illegal aliens are terrorists and should be shot on sight.

I don't even know where to begin to address this line of thought.

Lefty I think it is safe to say that nobody here likes illegal aliens of any nationality, but don't overdramatize it by calling them terrorists. That is a pretty weak. :joker:

Rave · 04-16-2005, 07:24 PM

I am truely disappointed with LD,he turned out to be one of those fools that lives in a washing machine,an agitater,too bad.

SPOCAHP ANAR · 04-16-2005, 07:44 PM

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. His statements aren't racist LD. One might consider them Bigoted, hateful, spiteful, or prejudicial; but not racist.

Lefty O you are quoted as saying "but they come here in violation of the law and every act there after is illegal and undermines the fabric of this society which in my opinion is an act of terrorism"

So you have a problem with them because they are lawbreakers? I call
Bull$H!T. The soldier broke the law, yet you call him a HERO? Why not call him a terrorist, hell he even fit the defination listed above, something about inciting fear? Laws are nothing more than a means to control people.

Somewhere, somehow you have a deep resentment for illegals. I don't like them anymore than you do. Calm down and choose your words more wisely. You may not be racist but your words come off as being such. So if you take offense at being called one you might want consider your part in the matter.

04-16-2005, 09:13 AM	#61
Rufus Rhastus J Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West, Central Florida, Third World America Posts: 6,339 Images: 1	Very good points, Rave! As to my own situation, I feel even more frustration when I see how the gumint acts (read: doesn't act) concerning these criminals. I noticed there was no comment to Rufus's crazy ideas about it. Fine, so i'm nuts. But, there is clearly something going on with the white house folks who don't want to protect our borders. they all want to steal our rights away in the name of homeland security but, refuse to address the most serious of homeland security problems. go figure, must be that new voting block I been talking about. Rave, you are not alone. I'm mad as he**, too. Problem is, nobody but, a few of us, really cares. Bush sure as heck doesn't. __________________ "They cannot be trusted.....The Romulans (our politicos) are without honor." Worf

04-16-2005, 09:35 AM	#63
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,859	I would hate to think that we are being sold out for votes,but it appears that this may be the situation. if Bush thinks he will get more votes by letting them in and supporting them it doesn't appear that it is working,at least not yet.The Democrats still get 80+% of the Latino vote. But time will tell. What a lousey situation! __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

04-16-2005, 11:53 AM	#64
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,569 Blog Entries: 22	The biggest prob. we face in Tx. and I'm sure the other states bordering Mexico as well, is lack of border patrol applicants-it's not much fun running around the desert in 114 deg. temps chasing illegals who may also be armed drug smugglers. I'm not saying this in defense of the white house or anyone else, but, it is a big border and takes a whole bunch of policing. I have friends in law enforcement that will testify that very few people want the job. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

04-16-2005, 01:20 PM	#68
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	no LD it has nothing to do with their skin color. the simple fact is that most canucks that want to come and live and work in this country do it legally. i really wish you wouldnt throw around racist insinuations. Last edited by lefty o; 04-16-2005 at 01:23 PM.

04-16-2005, 01:38 PM	#69
gunssb Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: socal Posts: 1,833	legal immigration This is regarding legal immigrants alone. Some people here hold the view that legal immigrants pose an economic burden on the society and hence should be invite alone. A lot of people believe that this is actually contrary to the reality. Here is one such view http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=1600 "In 1976 the Census Bureau interviewed 156,000 households (including about 15,000 immigrant families) to learn about 1975 family income and welfare services patterns. From this sample I constructed a picture of lifetime economic behavior by assuming that the information on the sample immigrants who had been here, say, two years, or ten years (as of 1975) described the representative immigrant family after two years, or after ten years. For all transfers and services, the average immigrant family was found to receive $1,404 in welfare services in years 1 to 5, $1,941 in years 6 to 10, $2,247 in years 11 to 15, and $2,279 in years 16 to 25. Native families overall averaged $2,279. One important reason for this is that immigrants typically arrive when they are young and strong, and they do not bring elderly persons with them who might be a burden on the system. When these immigrants retire, their children support them with their taxes, as in the case of natives. If immigrants paid relatively little in taxes, they might still burden natives, even with fewer welfare services for immigrants than for natives. While there is no direct information on taxes paid, data on family earnings allow a reliable estimate. Within three to five years after entry, immigrant family earnings reach and pass those of the average native family. The average native family paid an estimated $3,008 in taxes in 1975. In comparison, immigrant families here 10 years paid $3,359, those here 11 to 15 years paid $3,564, and those here 16 to 25 years paid $3,592. Such substantial differences benefit natives. Assuming that 20 per cent of taxes finance activities that are little affected by population size (for example, maintaining the armed forces and the Statue of Liberty), the data on services used and taxes paid, taken together, show substantial differences that benefit natives: an average of $1,354 yearly for years 1 to 5, and $1,329, $1,535, and $1,353 for years 6 to 10, 11 to 15, and 16 to 25 respectively. These are the amounts by which each additional immigrant family enriches U.S. public coffers. Evaluating the future stream of differences as one would a dam or harbor, the present value of an immigrant family discounted at 3 per cent (inflation adjusted) was $20,600 in 1975 ‘dollars, almost two years’ average earnings for a native family: at 6 per cent the present value is $15,800, and $12,400 at 9 per cent. We can conclude, then, that immigrants, far from causing unemployment and costing society more than they contribute, are a direct, dollars-and-cents economic asset to the community. "

04-16-2005, 09:33 AM	#62
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	illegal aliens are terrorists and should be shot on sight. they know what they are doing is illegal or else they would come through at the legitimate border crossing like the other decent people. and i personally dont care if its the mexican aliens or canadians, they should be considered terrorists and be shot. i personally think this soilder did the right thing, he may have gone about it slightly wrong , but he was correct.

04-16-2005, 12:41 PM	#66
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	i dont consider it an attack. my take is that if your first act in this country is illegal, then your are a terrorist. now they may not have bombs or even guns, but they come here in violation of the law and every act there after is illegal and undermines the fabric of this society which in my opinion is an act of terrorism. i would have absolutely no problem with these aliens if they would walk upright into this country with good intentions, instead of sneaking through the crack in the fence like a rabid dog.

04-16-2005, 01:10 PM	#67
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	nobody ever complains about the Canadians...oh yeah..most of them are White !

04-16-2005, 04:55 PM	#71
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	you are not right. never once on this sight have i made any racist remarks about mexicans. so you can climb off of your high horse, pull that stick out of your !!!!! and go "F" yourself!

04-16-2005, 05:20 PM	#72
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	this is me trying to look surprised

04-16-2005, 05:24 PM	#73
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	like I said..this wouldn't make everybody mad if they were white but they aren't

04-16-2005, 05:41 PM	#74
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	like i said you mouthy little b_itch, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin. heck ive even dated a mexican ( you can add a couple of other colored races in here if you wish)woman a few years ago, but she was a legal immigrant. so maybe you might want to check your punk attitude at the door before you start calling people racists. now you can call me a lot of other names and it wouldnt really upset me, but dont think about calling me a racist because i am not. there are certain things in life i will not tolerate from others, and this is one of them.

04-16-2005, 05:54 PM	#75
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,786	im sorry evryone, LD apparently isnt happy if he doesnt have someone to flame and somehow i sank down to his level- or lower. LD im done with you , dont care for you so move on and try flaming someone else.

04-16-2005, 06:24 PM	#76
Logansdad Guest Posts: n/a	you done showing off how tough you can be on the internet ? I don't even look scared do I ? :right: now like I said maybe if they weren't so swarthy y'all wouldn't hate them so much

04-16-2005, 07:24 PM	#79
Rave Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 6,859	I am truely disappointed with LD,he turned out to be one of those fools that lives in a washing machine,an agitater,too bad. __________________ USAF '62-'66 .

04-16-2005, 07:44 PM	#80
SPOCAHP ANAR Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: SC-upstate Posts: 4,089 Images: 3 Blog Entries: 4	Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. His statements aren't racist LD. One might consider them Bigoted, hateful, spiteful, or prejudicial; but not racist. Lefty O you are quoted as saying "but they come here in violation of the law and every act there after is illegal and undermines the fabric of this society which in my opinion is an act of terrorism" So you have a problem with them because they are lawbreakers? I call Bull$H!T. The soldier broke the law, yet you call him a HERO? Why not call him a terrorist, hell he even fit the defination listed above, something about inciting fear? Laws are nothing more than a means to control people. Somewhere, somehow you have a deep resentment for illegals. I don't like them anymore than you do. Calm down and choose your words more wisely. You may not be racist but your words come off as being such. So if you take offense at being called one you might want consider your part in the matter.