Cetme Quality?

[Joe Brainard]

Hey, what does anybody know about the Cetme rifles from Century Arms? Or Cetmes period. Are they a reliable rifle? As in fews Jams? And Are they accurate?
Bought my M44 from Century, was very pleased.
Thanks guys. Also for the great info in the past.

[Joe Brainard]

One more thing. What is the G3, and what is the difference from the Cetme?
Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Logansdad

The CETME is one of those rifles that many military gun buffs might misidentify as an early Heckler & Koch HK-91, and there is a good reason for that. The rifle isn't an HK, but the HK-91 series
was developed from the CETME. After WWII, many German arms designers were out of work for good reason), thus they had to find gainful employment elsewhere. Many went to Spain's "CETME", or "Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales" (Special Materials Technical Studies Center) which was formed in 1948. These designers were tasked with designing a new "Fusil de Asalto", or Assault Rifle, for the Spanish military and export markets. The German designers working at CETME drew on the wartime experience with the promising German StG-41 and StG-45 (MG-45) machine gun and developed it further, coming up with a couple of prototypes that utilized a blowback/locking roller mechanism to operate the gun- an inheritance from the StG-45. The new gun, approved for production and development in the 1950s, was called the Model "A". It was a successful weapon, reliable, and popular.

Heckler & Koch, in business in Germany once the nation was allowed to manufacture arms again, was so impressed with the CETME rifle that they worked out a deal to co-develop the gun further. The HK-91 G3 series was the ultimate result. In fact, many parts are interchangeable between the
two, and CETME owners usually use an HK-91 G3 tech manual for their rifles. CETME developed other products for the military as well, but it is the rifle that has become the most famous. So much so that the rifle is simply known as "the CETME".
The CETME Described
The CETME is a semiautomatic, gas-blowback operated repeater. It utilizes a locking roller to delay the blowback action of the bolt carrier until the pressure in the barrel is reduced to a point
where the blowback force is not mechanically harmful (This is the innovative inheritance from the
StG-41 and -45 developed by the Mauser team in WWII). This is a relatively unique feature in military rifles since most semiautos are operated by a separate gas cylinder (like the AK or FN/FAL
series, for example). The bolt carrier rides a rail on either side of the stainless steel, cast receiver (in the case of Century Arms-built CETME's). The forward tube of the bolt carrier subassembly rides in its own tube located above the barrel which also houses the charging handle and a cleaning kit. A spring mounted on a rod in the buttstock extends forward into the bolt carrier assembly and provides the force to chamber the next round after being forced back by the blowback action.
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The Spanish state company CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center, now known as Empresa National Santa Barbara) was founded in 1949 to develop various small arms for Spanish army. At about the same time it employed the German arms designer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who worked for the famous Mauser Werke in Germany before and during the World War 2. The Vorgrimler was the designer of the experimental German assault rifle, known as "Gerat 06" or Stg.45(M). This rifle was not manufactured in any quantities, but its design served as a basis for further development at the CETME, and more important, at the another German company, Heckler & Koch, which obtained a license for the Vorgrimler / CETME rifle design circa 1957. This deal later resulted in the famous family of the H&K weapons, like the G3 and HK33 assault rifles, HK21 and HK23 machine guns, MP5 submachine guns and numerous other small arms that achieved a worldwide popularity. All those weapons are built using the delayed blowback system of operation, designed by Vorgrimler and his men at the Mauser in 1945 and refined by CETME.

The initial assault rifle development at the CETME was conducted around proprietary intermediate cartridge, known as 7.92x40mm CETME. This cartridge featured a long and streamlined bullet, made from aluminum. The overall design was found adequate, but cartridge was rejected in favor of the 7.62x51mm round with lighter bullet and a reduced powder charge. Improved rifle entered serial production in 1956 and was adopted by the Spanish army in 1957. In 1958 CETME introduced a slightly improved design, known as Modelo B or Model 58. This rifle was intended to fire 7.62x51mm reduced loads but also could fire the standard 7.62mm NATO, if the bolt group and the return spring are replaced with the appropriate set of parts. In 1964, CETME introduced the Modelo C, which also was adopted by Spanish Army, Navy and Air Force. This rifle was intended to fire only standard, full power 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. Its key improvements were 4-position diopter sights (instead of the earlier leaf type open sights), wooden handguards instead of earlier steel ones, bipod was made as a separate part and, most important, the chamber was fluted to improve extraction and avoid torn rims and cartridge case failures in harsh environment conditions. Production of the modelo C rifle was ceased in 1976, and in 1980s it had been gradually replaced by its 5.56mm derivative, CETME Modelo L assault rifle.

All 7.62mm CETME rifles are built around Vorgrimlers' roller delayed blowback system. This system employs a two parts bolt with two rollers. The front bolt part (bolt head) is relatively light and has a bolt face with extractor on it. It also has a hollow cavity at the rear, in which an inclined forward end of the rear part of the bolt (bolt body) is inserted. The system features two rollers, inserted from the sides into the bolt head and rested on the inclined forward end of the bolt body (see this diagram; it will pop up in the new window). When gun is fired, the pressure began to move the cartridge back against the bolt face. The rollers, which are extended into the recesses in the barrel extension, began to move inward into the bolt head, due to inclined shape of the recesses. This movement translates into the faster rearward movement of the heavier bolt body, so, at the initial moments of shot, when pressure in the chamber is still high, bolt face moves relatively slow. When pressure drops to a reasonable level, rollers disengage the barrel extension completely and from this moment on the bolt head and the bolt body move backward at the same speed, extracting and ejecting spent case and chambering a fresh cartridge on the way back. All CETME rifles are firing from the closed bolt. The trigger mechanism is hammer fired, and in military versions is capable in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes of fire. On the early models the safety / fire mode selector switch was located above the trigger at the right side of the gun. From the model C the safety / selector switch was relocated to the left side of the gun. The receiver is made from steel sheet stampings, as well as the trigger group housing, which is hinged to the receiver just behind the magazine housing. Early models (prior to Modelo C) were issued with integral folding metallic bipods and open leaf-type rear sights. The Modelo C rifles were issued with wooden handguards and a separate detachable bipods. The rear sights were replaced by the 4 positions diopter sights, marked for 100 - 400 meters range. All rifles featured a wooden buttstock and a folding carrying handle above the receiver. The flash hider of the Modelo C rifles was shaped to accept and launch NATO-standard rifle grenades. Most rifles were issued with magazines of 20 rounds capacity and made of steel, but 30 rounds magazines also were available.

[Big Dog]

Do a search back for about a year, and you'll find our previous discussions on these fine rifles. I've had mine about three years now, and I love it.
If you find one, you might give it a serious look. Century is running low on kits to build them, and prices are rising as numbers available drop.

[washooter]

Was at a Pistol and carbine match in North Florida this last weekend, one of the guys there was using a CETME and did a respectable job. His Rifle was the only battle rifle in the match and spoke with greater authority against the steel targets. I was the other odd-ball, as I was the only guy using an AK clone.
It was otherwise pretty much an AR-15 world.
Still, the CETME seemed pretty appealing on a fun gun, with practical applications, level.

[grasshopper2]

Good day all you here on Gun & Game. I have a little experience with these rifles from CIA, (Century International Arms). I purchased my CETME about a year ago and the first thing I did was to clean the snot out of it. I ripped it down to nothing. I removed the fire control assembily and steam cleaned and oiled it to get the crud out of it and stoned some of the parts to smooth out the trigger pull, I likewise steam cleaned the disassembled bolt/carrier and removed the firing pin ect. ect. and gave them a good cleaning. I checked to see if the bolt face was filed down by CIA to reset the head spaceing. It was origional, that is good. I checked the recoil spring for wear and checked to see if it was strait and cleaned out the bolt carrier where the recoil spring seats. I filed the receiver areas where the stock/buffer mates with the handle/trigger assembily to make it a lot easier to disassemble and reassemble. I reassembled it and checked the head spaceing with a feeler guage and it measured 8 thousandths. So far so good. I cycled the bolt about a thousand times over a period of 3 days to brake in the new receiver and started the cleaning process over again just to make sure the firearm was ready to test fire. I brought it to the range and it ate around 250 rounds without any problems. It did have a cocked front sight though. At 150 yards it was off about 12 inches to the left Be carefull when you inspect your CETME. You can get a shooter rite out of the box or you can get a clam. Study up on these rifles before you purchase one and go over it really closely before you take it home.
I hope this helps.

Ed Stanley
Danville N.H.

[Mandy]

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I got a G3, and my only complaint is the weight of this magnificent weapon, I would hate to lug around this beast, but firepower is respectable with the 7.62x51 NATO rnd. This rifle can't be topped for a battle rifle, maybe the FAL, it's all personal opinion.

The main diference from the CETME and the G3 is the furniture, wood on the CETME and plastic crap on the G3 (the HK furniture is very good, but you have to play with parts count to keep it legal), also the rear sight is a bit diferent, the G3 has the HK drum type and the CETME has a paddle wheel.

Mags are interchangeable, but many if the internals are not.

I think that G3s have better finish, and the price is higher than CETMEs, but I have 3 friends with CETMEs and they're extremelly happy with them.

Very important is that you clean all the CAIs guns before firing, the monkeys at CAI leave a lot of metal shavings inside mine and I've heard the same horror stories from many other sources, so clean it up really well, especially the flutted chamber, so you won't experience extraction problems with all that sticky crud inside the chamber that the CAI monkeys leave there.

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who was it that said the .308 turns cover into concealment ?