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Old 12-22-2007, 11:24 AM   #41
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.22 Semi HELP

Quote:       Originally Posted by mr mom View Post
i run a little .22 sil. shoot in the summer... he is my .02 worth... you see alot of bolt guns on the line... you see a couple 10/22's. most are the 10/22t heaveu bdl. alot of guys are going to the cz.... if you get a bull bdl. you can only shoot 1 class. if you get a std. bdl. you can shoot both.....
the fartest target for .22 sil's is 100m or 109 yds.... and a .22 will take them down with a good hit.... everybody i know or who have shot sil.'s use the standard vol. ammo.
as for a scope you need a scope with target turrets so you can adj. for the diffrent targets...but there is a way to use a plain scope off the street....
if you want some realy fun stop by your closest sil range...alot of serise guys but they are having fun ...its a blast...
I gave away my .22 semi to a friend & I'm looking for a 50ft-50yd Target gun I've been reading ALL the Posts & there are 3 semi-s quoted in the $2-450 range 10/22T ,marlin, Savage. The thompson is a little more $$$ I shot single bolt Prone score 98
when younger, I'm looking for a good/great trigger
& less jams than my $99.99 rifle I shot for 20yrs.
Thank you all
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:29 AM   #42
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I shoot the middle out of clay targets at 100 yds all day long with my stainless 10/22:



4x Simmons scope...
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:09 PM   #43
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Quality .22's

Thanks to all for the Info. I think I'll get a 10/22T & that should suit me fine. Thanks again
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:47 PM   #44
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I have a steven's model 56, one of the most accurite guns i have ever seen, there great if you can find one. I took out a blackbird @ 45 yards Iron Sight
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:33 PM   #45
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accurate .22's

Ive had a few that were good and a few that wernt, 4 of the best were
3 of them were bolt guns and one lever, the longest shots Ive ever pulled were with a Marlin Glenfield model 10 single shot 76 paces for a black bird out the top of a maple in a northern Nebraska marsh "windy day", the other was a Marlin model 81 out to 140 yds on SW Nebraska praiare dogs , the third bolt was a Springfield Savage 84 NW Alaska Ptarmigan 107 yds "this one would stack bullets in one ragged hole at 40 yards with no problem" and was a great performer out to 120yds, the lever gun was a late 1970's Winchester 9422 longest shot at night coon hunting down into a marshy low area "76 yds" this was a good rifle for P dogs as well jack rabbits, most all shot well useing standard velocity and select high velocity ammo's none of them performed well with Hypervelocity ammo,
I noticed that shooting side by side on P-dogs the Bolt actions held a distance edge "Glenfield 10 vs Ruger 10/22" by a good 30' I am just guessing that mabe it was the shorter barrel or the blow back action
we would get a 10' gain just by holding the bolt shut with the Rt hand thumb during fireing, the 10/22 was loseing the velocity game being shorter "stock barrel"and blow back action, the Marlin 60 of Dad's could cast out round's a little farther than the Ruger but not buy much
as this was a Family outing blasting Uncles P-Dogs, Dad with a Marlin 60 me with a Glenfield 10, Brother with the Ruger 10/22 all useing the same lot of ammo all .22 were cleaned the same.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:28 PM   #46
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The only .22 I have that I shoot at 100m much is my "plain Jane" Remington 597 with a 3-9 powwer Simmons Prohunter scope. I can't tell you the groups since I just do informal plinking with it, but I bust clay birds at 100m about 80-85% of my shops. Not too shabby considering it's a $120 semi auto rifle, sans bull barrell, super heavy trigger, and has a mediocre (at best) shooter behind the trigger.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:58 PM   #47
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I would suggest that the best .22 LR shooting gun(shooter) at 100 yards will also be the best shooting gun(shooter) at 50 yards. The possible exception would be the scope. The guy with with the 36 or 45 power scope will probably do much better at 100 than the guy with the 9X.

This is different than the centerfire benchrest situation. The shorter yardages(100) will be dominated by the small calibers with less recoil and a bit more wind drift. The longer ranges (600-1000) will be dominated by larger calibers/bullet weights where some recoil is traded off for less drop and wind drift sensitivity.

Ron

Last edited by Ron AKA; 04-28-2008 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:13 PM   #48
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Hi, few months ago I bought a 572 Fieldmaster in 22LR caliber, but there wasn't any User's Manual in package. Local dealer says he didn't received it. I wrote to Remington company but they can't send it to me because I'm not USA resident, I live in Slovenia-Europe. They even don't have downloadable version of manual for this rifle on their website. I have already shot about 2000 rounds and I was cleaning only barrel so far. Can you tell me please, do I have to clean the trigger mechanism too? What says in manual about cleaning other parts?
Anyway, I love it form the first day I own it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:34 PM   #49
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you'll get more answers by starting your own thread, instead of piggybacking on an old one.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:08 PM   #50
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I just read your artical an it was very good an intertesting too. I learn a few thing

Quote:       Originally Posted by NesikaChad View Post
Here is what I've learned:

Regarding 100 yard shooting with a little 22.

Yes, it is certainly possible to do so. In fact, 100 yards is just the beginning. There is also a subculture of gun nuts out there that play with these at 200 yards. It's called "Mini Palma" and it is a hoot to shoot.

Palma is 800, 900, and 1000 yard competitive shooting. Rifles are only allowed to be chambered in 308 Winchester and they must use a 155 grain bullet. Iron sights only and you shoot from prone.
No bags, rests, or bi pods are allowed.

Mini Palma is (this part varies a little depending on where you shoot) 100, 150, and 200 yards with a 22 rimfire. Same general rules though. Iron sights and you shoot from prone. Some matches change the 100 and 150 yard distances to fit their ranges better.

A 22LR at 200 yards is very close ballistically to a 308 at a 1000, in terms of making a windage call anyways. This is why its a great training aid for LR shooters.

Ok, got side tracked, sorry.

Gun specifics. Yes, you can certainly build a 10/22 to hammer at 100 yards. It starts with a premium barrel.

100 dollar drop in "bull" barrels aren't really the answer here if you truly want a high performance 22.

300 dollar barrels are where you should be looking.
If you are like most, you are working within a budget. Given the choice between fancy triggers, stocks, and scopes.

Buying a premium barrel will give you the most significant performance/accuracy increase.

Premium ammunition is the second thing to focus your money on.

Dan Lilja, owner of Lilja Rifle Barrels up in Montana makes a drop in barrel for 10/22's that has the right chamber already cut. Anyone who tinkers with NBRSA knows Dan's reputation as a barrel maker. Great guy and great products!

The chamber:

A competitive bolt gun in 22LR uses a very tight chamber. I learned about all this working for Neal Johnson and Anschutz as a gunsmith on Olympic Target Rifles for resident athletes at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

The throats on the chambers are short and they are tight. Match grade barrels typically run the minor bore dimension a couple thousanths tighter than what the SAAMI tolerance is.

This "chokes" the bullet and helps insure that it is running concentric to the bore's centerline.

Well, that's great on a bolt gun where you have a powerful camming action when going into battery.

Blow back operated semi autos won't put up with this, so it's modified to what is commonly called the "Benz" chamber. It's a compromise between the two.

The throat region is kept "almost" as tight while the back half of the chamber, the part that supports the case, is loosened up a bit to facilitate operation. (Feeding, chambering, and extraction)

The bullet gets the support it wants and the chamber will let the gun "run" right.

Barrel vibration:

This topic gets so abused and terminology ends up being misused.

I won't go into a long dissertation about grammar.

Simple fix. If you want to devote the time to it, buy a barrel tuner from Neal Johnson's Gunsmithing in Colorado Springs. ( "Neal Johnson's Gunsmithing, Inc. Online Target Shooting Equipment Manual" )

Here is a simple way to explain how all this works.

Take a 12" ruler and screw it to your dining room table with 10" of the ruler hanging out in space.

This is your barrel.

Flip the end of the ruler so that it "boings" back and forth.

This represents your barrel as the shock wave from the firing pin spring/hammer drives the striker/hammer into the primer and the cae rim crushes against the barrel resulting in ignition. Chamber pressures rise, and the bullet begins traveling down the barrel. (All this makes the barrel wiggle)

Observing the ruler as it wiggles back and forth will show you there are two locations where the barrel is seemingly motionless for a brief instant.

Time your bullet to leave the crown and enter its flight path at one of these two locations and you gain accuracy.

This is what a barrel tuner does. Tape a penny to the ruler. It alters the ruler's "wiggle".

Change the location of the penny on the ruler, and it will alter this yet again.

A barrel tuner uses a threaded, rotating cylinder that has graduations marked on it. Much like the barrel on a micrometer. By fiddling with the clock position/location of this cylinder, you can "time" the barrel to the ammunition.

This has much the same affect as when you suddenly gain substantial accuracy from bumping a charge a few tenths of a grain on a centerfire rifle cartridge. People call this the barrel's "sweet spot."

Tuners work, but they can also drive you nuts because if you change ANYTHING you must be prepared to start your testing all over again.

Here's a list of things NOT to change if you don't want to spend another full day fussing on the bench:

1. Lot numbers on ammo
2. Guard screw torque.
3. Changing a scope (torque load on ring screws)
4. Changing/replacing any internal fire control parts. (10/22 titanium hot rod parts for instance)

All this should be considered with barrel tuners.

You also need to glue (epoxy) the sleeve to the barrel when using one of these. Clamping it won't work. It'll move and goof you up.

Ok, next subject:

Semi autos and how they kill accuracy.

22LRs are rimfire cartridges. Stack them up in a magazine and what happens? The rim of the case being chambered is pushed over the bearing/sealing ring of the bullet beneath it as the bolt strips it out of the magazine and chambers it.

Because the bullet is soft lead and the case is brass, an inclusion is formed from the brass rim scraping over the bullet. This causes a very subtle change in the center of rotation for the cartridge.

Typical match grade 22LR ammo has a muzzle velocity of around 1050 to 1200 fps. There's a reason for this big deviation that I'll get to.

Barrel twists for target/bench guns are usually 1-16. Doing the math, that breaks down to the bullet spinning between 47,250 and 54,000 rpm.

Now, just imagine a football being thrown with a tire weight taped to the outside. It's going to wobble. The bullet does the same thing.

This wobble will induce a subtle change in flight path and it will cause a group to spread more than if this didn't happen.

I'm not claiming that its a huge difference, but it is there.

Match ammo velocity. One would think that supersonic ammo is for longer distances and subsonic is for close up.

Actually, it's the opposite. The supersonic won't stay supersonic out to 100 yards. It'll shed enough velocity to where it passes back through the sound barrier. This causes a reduction in accuracy.

Subsonic will stay subsonic through its entire flight path so its better for longer ranges. (100 yards and beyond)

All ISSF (International Sports Shooting Foundation) competition for rimfire is held outdoors at 50 meters. (Olympic type shooting) The supersonic ammo will stay above the sound barrier at 50 meters. This is helpful because it reduces time in flight just a little and makes it just a bit more resistant to conditions.

Back to gun stuff:

The other obvious reason for larger groups in semi auto 22's is the use of energy to operate the fire control of the rifle/pistol.

Bolt guns don't do this, all energy generated by the powder charge is used to propel the bullet.

Ok, class dismissed.

No quiz today. . .

Here's a sample of a highly accurate 22LR rifle.



I built this for Cathy Winstead. Cathy is the only person in the history of smallbore silhouette to win both world championship events in small bore rifle silhouette. She won in the heavy gun unlimited class and the hunter lightweight class. Lucky for me, I built both of her rifles. (woo hoo!)

This was done in South Africa in early 2004.

The rifle pictured is an Anschutz 54 action with a custom barrel. The stock is a Boyd's design intended for a 10/22 Ruger. I ordered it as a blank and did the inlet and bedding work.

The scope on it is just a test scope that I use for performance testing on the bench. The gun would never make weight with that big monstrosity on it.

Cathy has always shot a pink gun. She's been shooting since she was very young. We decided it was time for a "ladies pink" instead of the "Gawddy Miami Vice pastel Pepto "dismal" pink" that she had been using.

So, "Rose Quarts Metallic" from PPG it was.

I like it personally. Looks sexy to me.

At 100 yards using Eley TENNEX EPS the gun shoots a five shot group that averages right at about 3/4's of an inch.

Now, five shot groups aren't all that impressive to me. What I was taught with 22's is to shoot TEN five shot groups and then average the spread.

So, you end up shooting a 50 shot group to achieve a "real world" average and expectation for performance.

So, thats the story about the Pink gun.

Hope this helped someone.

Thanks for listening to my rant.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:17 PM   #51
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Old 05-14-2008, 05:49 PM   #52
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I shoot nice groups w/ my marlin & federal ammo. I think you need to find ammo your gun likes. good luck.
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Old 05-14-2008, 08:56 PM   #53
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Quote:       Originally Posted by phrogg View Post
That all just sounds fancy and doesn't really help you unless you know what it means, but basicly, the guy said he was getting 2 inch groups at 100 yards.

I didn't even know .22s went 100 yards.

Anyway, does anyone have any experience with any .22LR target rifles getting at least mediocre groupings at 100 yards? What would I need? If a Ruger 10/22 and a bull barrel would be the extent of it, I'd probably be willing to invest in a $150 bull barrel/stock and a $90-ish scope (8-32x power) to be shooting at 100 yards.

"match" .22 ammo at Wal-Mart is... what, $5 for 50 rounds, something like that? I know that doesn't compare to the $9 for 550 rounds they've got on the winchester stuff, but it's still cheap as far as ammo goes.
I started a fun little match at my shooting club. Five little chickens engaged at 100 yards in one minute with a max of 10 rounds and the shooter starts standing and then goes to prone or sitting with use of a bi-pod or throw down bag allowed. It was well received and we decided to add it to our regular rimfire matches as a fifth Saturday match. Here is a thread I started on the match (be sure to scroll down to the pics from the match):

Are you ready for the Raptor Match? - Rimfire Shooting

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Old 05-15-2008, 08:20 AM   #54
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Mirra,

I am suprised you didn't mention scope choices for 200+ .22 RF shooting. What do you recommend out to 300 yards?

My search led me to a tactical scope like the Super Sniper or falcon. I'm wondering if the Bushnell 4200's and Leupolds (mine is a Vari-X III 3.5-10), using Burris signature rings with the inserts, would get on at 300 yards.

Thanks.
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:50 AM   #55
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Quote:       Originally Posted by ba_50 View Post
Mirra,

I am suprised you didn't mention scope choices for 200+ .22 RF shooting. What do you recommend out to 300 yards?

My search led me to a tactical scope like the Super Sniper or falcon. I'm wondering if the Bushnell 4200's and Leupolds (mine is a Vari-X III 3.5-10), using Burris signature rings with the inserts, would get on at 300 yards.

Thanks.
The bases are more important than the scope. For going out to 300 yards you are likely to need adjustable bases to get the scope pointing down enough. On the scope you need as much power as you can afford; 24X, 36X (Weaver make some T scopes that are somewhat affordable).

Ron
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:12 AM   #56
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going to also through in the Marlin model 39a lever action. very acurate at 100 yrds.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:15 PM   #57
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
I use a Walther UIT Supermatch topped with a 50x scope and feed it RWS R50. I have the trigger set to 1/4 oz and when I do my part the rifle will drop 5 shots in one hole at 50 yards and keyhole at 100.
My T/C Contender with the match grade Bullberry barrel and 24X B&L Elite 3000 using Federal Gold Medal Match is almost equal to the heavy Walther. I win more money with the T/C because the Walther looks accurate just sitting there.

is that a scope or a club on top of that rifle!!
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:36 PM   #58
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Ron AKA View Post
The bases are more important than the scope. For going out to 300 yards you are likely to need adjustable bases to get the scope pointing down enough. On the scope you need as much power as you can afford; 24X, 36X (Weaver make some T scopes that are somewhat affordable).

Ron

Ron,

I don't know of any sloped bases for a grooved receiver on a .22 rimfire. You say there are some?

The SS has 120 MOA of adjustment. I get the impression the optics are only mediocre on this one. There should be plenty of adjustment there. Sloped or adjustable bases would let me use the Leupold.

Last edited by ba_50; 05-15-2008 at 01:39 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:08 PM   #59
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Quote:       Originally Posted by ba_50 View Post
Ron,

I don't know of any sloped bases for a grooved receiver on a .22 rimfire. You say there are some?

The SS has 120 MOA of adjustment. I get the impression the optics are only mediocre on this one. There should be plenty of adjustment there. Sloped or adjustable bases would let me use the Leupold.
Not sure. I would check the Millett site.

Ron
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:01 AM   #60
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22 lr at 100 yards

One does not need any bull barrels. One does not need a 8x32 what ever scope. I go out with one of my little old 22's sold by sears in the twenty on up (named: Ranger, or Marlin), a little old 4X-22lr. scope (example: J.C. Higgins), and just plane standard 22lr 40gr. (muzzle vel. 1135) lead round noise. I use a 50 yard NRA 22lr target I buy at Wall Mart. These guns I use are just standard 24" barrels, single shot or 5 round clip fed bolt action. The marlins, some have a cheap brand of it's time peep sight, and at 50 yards have no problem with shot groups the size of a dime. The ones with said scopes at 100 yards have shot groups the size of a quarter. There has been no gun smith work to make then shot better or anything. I have given these same rifles to ones how think they are great shots, and the are, with 8X32 scopes, bull barrels, two hundred dollar stocks. When they get done they ask how do I do it.
Not every day can I do this. Nevertheless I find that when I go out with a good attitude, do not think of how I messed up the other day, do not think of how I need to be at the range of any sort, and just go out to have a good time things seem to work out. I do try to have a positive control of my shooting, but have a peace full attitude of my self seems to work the best. If my shoot group is wide, I go back to the bench and just try to relax, and settle down. That's when my shot group starts to improve (my heart bet starts to settle down, my breathing becomes more at ease, and the gun becomes more steady in my hands). I admit it does not come easy to come to the point of good control, it take practice, and some days I just can't achieve good control. But when I get in the grove I find out that it is not my guns so much that make me a,
Quote:      
what I call a fair shot
. The reason why I say it like that is becuase back when these guns where made pepole bought what they could off the shevles at there local ace hardwear stores sears and JC penny store and made it work at shoot outs.
My uncle was a Olympic shooter with the twenty two long rifle, now I got to admit that he had a little more then a sears ranger standard barrel gun. He started out with a Stevens 416 off the shelve bull barrel and a target scope of it's time, and you should have seen all the trophy's he had. He always told me that he could not have had all these trophy's if it wasn't for his control and attitude about his shooting, and at 63 years old I still try and practise what he told me, and it works.........The Webshooter

Last edited by the webshooter; 09-18-2008 at 11:04 AM.
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