A few tips--easiest first;
1) Try some JB bore cleaner thru it--at Brownells or most good gun shops--its a paste bore polisher. There is also JB Mirror Bright which is even finer for a final polish. I know a few custom barrel guys that hand lap their custom barrels with it before delivery. Should cost you about $8.oo and a half hours labor
2) Free float or make sure your barrel isn't binding unevenly on the stock. May take you an hour or so depending, but will be worth it
You should be able to slip a sheet of copy paper folded in half between your barrel and stock.
If all this fails, try having your barrel re-crowned--a smith should get about $35 for this
A few tips--easiest first;
1) Try some JB bore cleaner thru it--at Brownells or most good gun shops--its a paste bore polisher. There is also JB Mirror Bright which is even finer for a final polish. I know a few custom barrel guys that hand lap their custom barrels with it before delivery. Should cost you about $8.oo and a half hours labor
2) Free float or make sure your barrel isn't binding unevenly on the stock. May take you an hour or so depending, but will be worth it
You should be able to slip a sheet of copy paper folded in half between your barrel and stock.
If all this fails, try having your barrel re-crowned--a smith should get about $35 for this
I've used the JB Cleaner & Mirror Bright, and the barrel floats fine. I haven't had the crown done yet but am considering it. Or maybe just get another barrel made. Does anyone know anyone good that can do that??
I also wanted to let you know that this is the synthetic stock and stainless steel model and has less than 150 rounds thru it. Off sandbags at 25 Yd. 1" groups is the best I can get.
I am shooting a Savage Mark II with a BSA Sweet 22 3X9 at 100 yards
Hello there! I am shooting a Savage Mark II with CCI Stinger 22LR Copper Plated Hollow Point 1640FPS rounds and a Sweet 22 3X9 Scope at 100 yards with groups of 1 1/2" to 2" The only thing that I changed on it was the trigger pull "now is at about 2lbs pull" I read this post and decided to join and share my experience with all because I remember when I was looking for a good 22lr to shoot at 100yards and many people laugh at me. I also have a remington 700 308 Cal, and ATR 100 in 308 Cal also and a Glock 17 hand gun 9MM and a Glock 20 10mm hand gun. I shoot my hand guns at 25 yards, but if some one is interested in self defence than they only need to practice at 5 to 10 yards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phrogg
...I read an article a while back about a guy who made a thumbhole stock for his Ruger 10/22 and had a special thumb-adjustable screw for barrel harmonics.
That all just sounds fancy and doesn't really help you unless you know what it means, but basicly, the guy said he was getting 2 inch groups at 100 yards.
I didn't even know .22s went 100 yards.
Anyway, does anyone have any experience with any .22LR target rifles getting at least mediocre groupings at 100 yards? What would I need? If a Ruger 10/22 and a bull barrel would be the extent of it, I'd probably be willing to invest in a $150 bull barrel/stock and a $90-ish scope (8-32x power) to be shooting at 100 yards.
"match" .22 ammo at Wal-Mart is... what, $5 for 50 rounds, something like that? I know that doesn't compare to the $9 for 550 rounds they've got on the winchester stuff, but it's still cheap as far as ammo goes.
Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca
Posts: 24,115
i have a custom 10-22 with a floyd wine bull bbl. that i pillar bedded and a beautiful trigger pull.
but my off the shelf cz-452 varmint will out shoot it everytime.
for goofing off i use anything.
after lots of money spent looking for the magic ammo .
i found wolf match target was the most consistant.
(i didnt bother using the top-shelf 30 cents a round ammo)
__________________ "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
What I don't get is when people scoff at the .22LR like it's underpowered or inadequate or something (although for some things it is, such as hunting buffalo :/ ). In my opinion, it's one of the best rounds out there. .22LR's are cheap, fun, and you can make them drive tacks anywhere under 100yds.
Because they're so cheap they are also good for practicing technique (trigger pull, breathing, etc.)
If you take your earphones off (.22's aren't very loud) and shoot at a target at 100yds+ you can hear the round hit the backboard. *BANG*.........*whack!*
Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca
Posts: 24,115
shooting for groups @ 100yds. can get pretty tough.
once you figure out the bullet drop and have a day with no wind though .
you will suprise yourself.
__________________ "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
What I don't get is when people scoff at the .22LR like it's underpowered or inadequate or something (although for some things it is, such as hunting buffalo :/ )...
Show 'em one of these...
Calico M-100, .22lr, 100-rounds per magazine.
Find me something 100 rounds of .22lr WON'T kill.
(Not quite politically correct, but it'll give a definitive death blow)
(Not available in Kalikfornistan, New Yuck, New Jerkey, and Ill&dead)
__________________ Marlin & Calico Specialist
I'm not just Trigger Happy, I'm Trigger Ecstatic!!
I'll contribute my experience at long distance shooting because that's all I mostly do (My last four trips to the range was to shoot 150 yards only.). I use a Marlin Model 60 (Most model 60's will outshoot a 10/22 out of the box. If you want to do better, buy a CMZ.). Mine will shoot a 1" group at 70 yards. I don't know what it does at 100 yards because most of my shots are 120 yards+. At 120 it fires a 3" group using Wally World bulk ammo. I have not measured the groups at 150 as I have just started shooting at that range. I'm tempted to say 4" but have had some rounds land outside this. I once fired at 175 yards under perfect conditions (i.e. no wind) and all six shots landed in a 6" group. But six shots one time only is not a fair test. However, if you can shoot a 1" group at 70 yards, that becomes a 2" group at 140 yards and 2.5" at 175 yards. So it's not impossible. But there are variables that I'll list below that keep us from doing just that.
For distance shooters there are five factors to consider before you even think about your barrel (mine is stock). They are:
1) Matched ammunition to your barrel
2) Wind
3) The consistency of your ammo
4) You (your pulse and trigger pull)
5) Your scope
On the first point, and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, almost every barrel has "harmonics" with certain ammunition. In my case, it's ammo of about 1280 FPS. To discover that, I had to shoot about a dozen different brands of ammo to find the "right harmonics". Of that dozen brands, only the top two shot "well" enough to produce the groups I described.
On the second point - Wind - this will ruin any long distance shooter's day. I Google my city name and "Wind" before I go out shooting. Even an 8 mph wind will keep me at home. For whatever reason, 22LR rounds get blown all over the place. The best you can do is shoot into the wind or directly behind it. There are Beufort "wind tables" for 90 degree winds on my rear scope cover for winds of up to 12-15 mph. It tells me how much my bullet will be blown off at 50 yards (very little) and 100 yards (a lot). You're supposed to adjust for wind speed and angle BOTH. If the wind is blowing at 45 degrees at 10 mph, IN THEORY, your bullet will be blown off ONE HALF of the amount your 90 degree table says. In actuality, it get's blown off closer to 70% than 50%. Still, I can calculate shot placement to within about 1/4" at 100 yards in a cross wind.
The "consistency of your ammo" refers to the consistency of the powder charge and your bullet weight. Under powered powder charge will cause you to hit LOW. An over powered powder charge will cause you to hit HIGH. Likewise, light bullet lead hits HIGH and heavy bullet lead hit LOW. It all comes down to the SPEED the bullet leaves the barrel (Muzzle velocity). The SERIOUS shooters here have chronometers to measure muzzle velocity. Cheap ****s like me measure muzzle velocity by where the bullet hits at 150 yards. The higher it hits, the higher the muzzle velocity. The lower it hits, the lower the muzzle velocity. The bigger the vertical variance, the greater the inconsistency of the ammunition. If the manufacturer's ammo is of inconsistent velocity, you will see (on a dead calm day) a pattern to your bullets that is greater in the vertical plane than in the horizontal.
And a whole bunch of ammunition will do this. They will shoot up and down all over the place. If you don't want this, expect to pay $ 13 for a box of Eley. But you can "cheat" sloppy manufacturing of 22LR ammo by using their bullet lube against them. Bullets are factory "lubed" to reduce barrel wear. Every factory uses a different lube. And this "lube" from the first shot remains in the barrel for the next three shots afterwards. Different brands will shoot differently in differently lubed barrels. The BEST example of this is CCI's 1050 FPS ammo. Fire any round of your choice (except CCI) through your barrel and then fire three rounds of 1050 CCI FPS. Those three shots should be the greatest shots of your life! I found this out from another shooter, tried it, and the three CCI 1050 FPS rounds left holes with all three touching each other at 50 yards. It was smaller than a dime! Don't bother to try a fourth shot though because the lube in the barrel will be gone by then and the bullet will go wild (ie. normal).
Unfortunately, I don't shoot 1050 FPS ammo. So I do the next best thing. I follow a 1280 FPS copper jacketed round with a 1280 FPS lead round of a different manufacturer. It's not as dramatic as the 1050 FPS CCI demonstration but it does the job. You're following one manufacture's lub with another. You will get a tighter group alternating lead and copper rounds at DISTANCE shooting than if you fired all lead or all copper (BTW, lead outshoots copper).
Last, there is the problem of YOU. Your trigger pull can pull you off target. Some shooters will compensate for a POOR TRIGGER PULL by lightening the TRIGGER PULL (measured in pounds) in their rifle. However, proper trigger pull pressure means only this:
1) If the rifle fires prematurely, the trigger pull is too light.
2) If the rifle fire late, the trigger pull is too heavy.
Most shooters with a poor trigger pull (if right handed) will pull their shots to the RIGHT. Although a lighter trigger pull can/could help them, the real problem is that they don't get their finger FAR ENOUGH over the trigger. You have probably heard the expression "Squeeze, don't pull". This is an instruction given to shooters who don't have their finger far enough over the trigger. When they PULL instead of SQUEEZE they pull the barrel to the RIGHT.
You also have other factors that screw up your long shots no matter how accurare your rifle. One is your breathing. Fire when fully exhaled. Firing while inhaling or exhaling creates body movement which is transmitted to the rifle barrel. You WILL MOVE the sights off TARGET.
The other factor is your PULSE. At 150 yards I can WATCH the crosshairs of my scope move left and right from my own heart's pulse. I have to shoot between pulses and that's hard to do. IMO, it's a sign of being OUT OF SHAPE. If I want to eliminate my pulse from my shooting I need to get more EXERCISE. But it's factors like these (as well as wind and barometric pressure) that keep me from firing a tighter group at 150 yards and not the rifle.
I included SCOPE because most of us can't do long distance shooting without one. As far as I'm concerned, a serious shooter needs a 40mm front lens. Your glass should also be clear enough for you to see your bullet holes in your target at 100+ yards. I personally use a 3x9 scope. Last month I tried a 4x16 scope and took it back. It seemed like a good idea at the time but 16X was just a blur. Again, you must be able to see bullet holes with your scope and not a blur. My 3x9 scope will range to 166 yards which is probably farther than the rifle can accurately shoot anyway.
I use variable magnification to identify range first (the tables are on my front scope lens cover). If the range is less than 100 yards, I will use the same magnification setting for the shot as I used to identify the range. Thus, I always shoot 55 yards at 3X. But shots in excess of 100-115 yards, I use 9X. That's to keep my crosshairs in proportion to (i.e. just covering) the aiming target point. IMO, if you over magnify, it will increase your time to make the shot and create PULSE problems.
A good scope includes an Adjustable Parrallax. However, the factory parralax setting may be off. On my scope, I found I shot better if I slightly reduced the parralax below the range of the target.
I am, by no means, an expert. I just happen to have made a helluva lot of LONG shots with 22LR which has led me to the above conclusions. I'm sure others with more experience and knowledge will correct me on my errors and I look forward to it. It will not only help others but help me on my 150 yard shots. They need improvement.
And a whole bunch of ammunition will do this. They will shoot up and down all over the place. If you don't want this, expect to pay $ 13 for a box of Eley. But you can "cheat" sloppy manufacturing of 22LR ammo by using their bullet lube against them. Bullets are factory "lubed" to reduce barrel wear. Every factory uses a different lube. And this "lube" from the first shot remains in my barrel for the next three shots afterwards. Different brands will shoot differently in differently lubed barrels. The BEST example of this is CCI's 1050 FPS ammo. Fire any round of your choice (except CCI) through your barrel and then fire three rounds of 1050 CCI FPS. Those three shots should be the greatest shots of your life! I found this out from another shooter, tried it, and the three CCI 1050 FPS rounds left holes with all three touching each other at 50 yards. It was smaller than a dime! Don't bother to try a fourth shot though because the lube in the barrel will be gone by then and the bullet will go wild (ie. normal).
Unfortunately, I don't shoot 1050 FPS ammo. So I do the next best thing. I follow a 1280 FPS copper jacketed round with a 1280 FPS lead round of a different manufacturer. It's not as dramatic as the 1050 FPS CCI demonstration but it does the job. You're following one manufacture's lub with another. You will get a tighter group alternating lead and copper rounds at DISTANCE shooting than if you fired all lead or all copper (BTW, lead outshoots copper).
Tried again today at 150 yards using a quarter as the target. I previously zero’d the scope for 150 yards using Federal Bulk (36 grain copper HP, 1260 FPS) but it was obvious I was not going to hit the quarter at this range using that particular box of Federal bulk. It was time to change brands of ammo. Shooting conditions were good (There was some wind but I was shooting into it.). I was not using a sandbag but shooting off the hood of my car. I used three shot groups:
First three shots: 3 blazers – 1 hit on the paper (group size ?) Second three shots: Three Federal bulk – 3 hits on the paper (group size 4+”) Third set: 3 Blazer – 3 hits on the paper (group size 2”) Fourth set: 3 American Eagle – 3 hits on the paper (group size 2 ¾”) Fifth set: 3 Federal Lightning – 0 hits on the paper (group size?) Sixth set: 3 American Eagle – 3 hits on the paper (group size 2”) Seventh set: 3 Winchester Xpert – 2 hits on the paper (group size 7.5”) Eighth set: 3 Blazers: 1 hit on the paper (group size?) Ninth set: 3 Federal bulk – 2 hits on the paper (group size 4+”) Tenth set: 3 Blazer – 3 hits on the paper (group size 2”)
The two three shot groups of Blazers plus one other Blazer hit, combined for a seven shot pattern of 3 ¾”. The six American Eagles hits combined for a 4.5” group. The five Federal bulk combined for a 9” group (Which is why I gave up trying to hit a quarter with it). The Winchester Xperts ( 36 grain lead HP, 1280 FPS) were even worse. I can’t say what happened to the Federal Lightning (40 grain, lead, 1240 FPS) as none hit. The Blazers represent an example of how you can make a round shoot better by having it follow a bullet of a different lube as I mentioned in my last post. Fired on the very first test set, the Blazers did terrible. Only one hit and it came within 1” of missing the target. I then fired them again, following the Federal bulk copper jacket and got a great 2” pattern. I then later followed them behind the lead Winchester Xpert in the seventh test and got only one hit again. The conclusion here is that Winchester Xpert lube did not help Blazer bullets. So I went back to the Federal bulks, shot them again, and then fired Blazers after them. Once again, the Blazers fired a 2 ¾” group. Two of the best three groups of the day were fired from the cheapest ammo ($ 1.98 a box) and it had the tightest overall group. For consistency, the American Eagles fired the best groups. Had I zero’d the scope with AE’s (38 grain. Copper HP, 1280 FPS) for 150 yards I actually would have hit the quarter once in the six shot test. Otherwise, there were no hits on the quarter. Next time out, I’ll try the Blazers behind the American Eagles and zero the Eagles on the quarter. If the Blazers tighten up like they did with the Federal bulk, I’ll alternate Blazer rounds behind American Eagle in my magazine. The Winchester Xperts were a bad experience. This is my second box (The first box shot great!). This box had loose bullet heads, FTF’s, and poor accuracy. I had similar experience with the Federal bulk where I’d buy a box that shot great and the next was worthless. But Winchester Xpert FTF rate can be atrocious!
Next time out, I’ll try the Blazers behind the American Eagles and zero the Eagles on the quarter. If the Blazers tighten up like they did with the Federal bulk, I’ll alternate Blazer rounds behind American Eagle in my magazine.
Fairly good weather today and tried again, this time following the AE rounds by a Blazer at 150 yards using a quarter sized bull's eye. I began by firing a four shot group and then checking the target for where I hit. Again, my rest was the hood of my car and, again, I had problems with my pulse moving the crosshairs left and right. The elevation being zero'd for Federal bulk all four shots were high. I numbered all four holes on the target with a "1" (first group). I then lowered the elevation and tried again. The second group I numbered "2". The groups were both very good. Groups "3" and "4" went all to hell and I decided firing four bullets might be heating up my bedded barrel. So I reduced the shots to two and was immediately rewarded when group 5 was 1/2". A cross wind came up then and ruined groups "6" and "7". For groups 8-11, I adjusted for the wind and scored two bull's eyes.
Because I was having to adjust the elevation downwards the pattern was also moving downwards. I had to measure pattern size by the group number, throwing out groups 3, 4, 6 and 7. The other seven groups averaged 2.6", the smallest being .5" and biggest being 4".
To no surprise, the 1235 FPS Blazers hit lower than the 1280 FPS AE's, usually by 1-2". I wasn't going to complain about this at 150 yards though. I ASSuMEd that 1-2" difference would get smaller on shorter ranged shots and it did at 50 yards and 75. But it actually got worse at 100 and 125 yards with the Blazers really coming in low. I got no bull's eyes at either of these ranges. In fact, my shooting looked a lot better at 150 than at 125.
I concluded the AE's were running out gas at 150 yards faster than the Blazers and so they grouped closer together. But between 75-125 yards, the AE's were leaving the Blazers further and further behind, creating a larger, not smaller, group. I can test this by shooting beyond 150 yards (say 165) and see if they don't group the same.
Although the idea of following AE's with Blazers to increase accuracy, due to following in a different lube, actually did work, producing quite a sense of euphoria to hit 2 for 8 (2 for 6 at one point) at 150 yards with a (slight) crosswind. In fact, I promptly went out right then and bought $77 worth of Blazers and AE's. But that feeling was lost entirely when I then came back with them and tried again, this time at 125 and 100. Yeesh! Even at 50 yards, I only got a 1" group which it normally does at 70.
I can try again with the Federal Lightnings (1240 FPS) followed by the nearly identical speed Blazers (1235 FPS). This should eliminate the velocity "gap" I experienced with the AE's. The problem here is that when I fired three Federal Lightnings at the target in my first test, all three missed the paper entirely. So switching to them and expecting improvement may be yet another disappointment.
I concluded the AE's were running out gas at 150 yards faster than the Blazers and so they grouped closer together. But between 75-125 yards, the AE's were leaving the Blazers further and further behind, creating a larger, not smaller, group. I can test this by shooting beyond 150 yards (say 165) and see if they don't group the same.
Fired at 165 yards today to test the above. Wind conditions were 5 mph and from behind. The AE's and Blazers did as predicted, intersecting in elevation. I only got to shoot a 5 shot group because, while wind was "behind me" in theory it was not exactly behind me. My shots landed a full foot to the left of POA. I walked out to the target between every shot to see if I was hitting the target (I wasn't.). I then had to try and figure out if I was missing high/low or left/right. So there were a lot of wasted shots/time. It took me an hour to get those five hits (I would say, except under "dead calm" conditions, any wind at all makes 165 yard shots impossible.). Elevation wise though, I got a very good group - only 3". Windage was double that owing to the fact that my crosshairs were well to the right of the target itself to even get my bullets on the paper at all.
Pulse was less of a problem today. Evidentally, walking 150 yards out and 150 yards back (300 yards) between shots for my last five trips to the range has gotten me in better shape.
Probably not very useful information unless it's to spare someone else from conducting the same test.
well, its not cheap , but after you throw a thousand dollars into a rifle that cost $2-300 to start with , its not that expensive. as a bonus my Cooper TRP3 will hang with some danged spendy custom BR rifles costing a whole lot more. my own thoughts, cheap gun, cheap scope, cheap ammo and you'll never shoot tiny groups at the longer ranges.
I have to agree with JellyDonut and Big Dog, it is hard to beat one of the older Marlin Mdl 60 with the long barrel. I have shot many things with mine and the accuracy is pretty incredible.
__________________
3rd Tanks, USMC 75-79--100% SC Vet
If you truly want to shoot really tight groups you have to start with a gun that is capable of doing it on a consistant basis, IE "winchester 52 0r 75, anschutz" or somthing in that range and then match them to the best match ammo you can get and then the very best optics you can get, IE "unertl or lyman super target" and then just maybe with enough practice you can shoot with the big boys and if not you can have a lot of fun at the local clubs talking about your nice match 22.
Steve
__________________
For those who never fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know.
You know I've had a couple old remington bolt action single shots that would make most here call me a liar.
One was a 510 and the other a targetmaster.
I use a Walther UIT Supermatch topped with a 50x scope and feed it RWS R50. I have the trigger set to 1/4 oz and when I do my part the rifle will drop 5 shots in one hole at 50 yards and keyhole at 100.
My T/C Contender with the match grade Bullberry barrel and 24X B&L Elite 3000 using Federal Gold Medal Match is almost equal to the heavy Walther. I win more money with the T/C because the Walther looks accurate just sitting there.
and here i thought my $800 10/22 was silly...
__________________
The right to bear arms is WAY less ludicrous than the right to arm bears!
Frustrated 
I am shooting a Savage Mark II with a BSA Sweet 22 3X9 at 100 yards 
More ammunition info: 
