savage markII .22

[tippmann7]

i was looking at the savage mark II in a .22 and was wondering if this is a good gun...it has the accu trigger, i want it mainly for just plinking and for squirels, what is the effective range on this gun?

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by tippmann7

i was looking at the savage mark II in a .22 and was wondering if this is a good gun...it has the accu trigger, i want it mainly for just plinking and for squirels, what is the effective range on this gun?

Yes they are a very good gun and accurate. Last weekend I did some target & squirrel shooting with a friend who just got a new Weatherby .22LR which is really made by Anschutz. In the limited target shooting we did it was not clear which gun was better, the Anschutz (sporter model) or my Savage BTVS. I had the best groups even when I gave him some match grade target ammo to try, but we did not shoot enough of them to be sure.

As for range I did manage to get one ground squirrel at 95 yards, and even with one shot. I think with a good high power scope, solid rest, and no wind, 125-130 yards is quite possible.

If you are interested in accuracy, go for a model which has a heavy barrel. It will have a V in the model number. Also check that it has the Accutrigger (which is excellent), as some old stock is still around that does not.

Ron

[tippmann7]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

Yes they are a very good gun and accurate. Last weekend I did some target & squirrel shooting with a friend who just got a new Weatherby .22LR which is really made by Anschutz. In the limited target shooting we did it was not clear which gun was better, the Anschutz (sporter model) or my Savage BTVS. I had the best groups even when I gave him some match grade target ammo to try, but we did not shoot enough of them to be sure.

As for range I did manage to get one ground squirrel at 95 yards, and even with one shot. I think with a good high power scope, solid rest, and no wind, 125-130 yards is quite possible.

If you are interested in accuracy, go for a model which has a heavy barrel. It will have a V in the model number. Also check that it has the Accutrigger (which is excellent), as some old stock is still around that does not.

Ron

i have a savage .17hmr with a heavy barrel and accutrigger, both are great

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by tippmann7

i have a savage .17hmr with a heavy barrel and accutrigger, both are great

The guts of the .22LR are nearly identical.

Ron

[billy]

For practical humane hunting and varmint control using a .22
rifle and iron sights, 50 to 75 yards should be considered max.

i shoot p-dogs often at those ranges.
i can hit them from a greater distance but i want to kill them outright.
not cause suffering.

[wildmountain]

i have a mark2 and have shoot rabbit & p dogs at 100 to 140 yrs going to give to my oldest & get a new one with the heavy barrel

[waterfowler12]

i have a savage mark 2 BTVS in .22LR. in saskatchewan where i live we shoot thousands of gophers a year and the gun i have is one of the most accurate .22 ive ever seen. i have a tasco varminter 6x24 scope on it and using the mil-dots i can frequently shoot gophers at ranges up to 200 yards using cheap winchester ammuniton.
and

for the killing the animals to make it human. its more the type of ammunition and shot placement. ive used this gun to shoot coyotes. ive killed coyotes shooting them in the head at i like it aroun 100 yards. this advantage is so it doesnt scare any other yotes that might be following at a further range.

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by waterfowler12

i have a savage mark 2 BTVS in .22LR. in saskatchewan where i live we shoot thousands of gophers a year and the gun i have is one of the most accurate .22 ive ever seen. i have a tasco varminter 6x24 scope on it and using the mil-dots i can frequently shoot gophers at ranges up to 200 yards using cheap winchester ammuniton.
and

for the killing the animals to make it human. its more the type of ammunition and shot placement. ive used this gun to shoot coyotes. ive killed coyotes shooting them in the head at i like it aroun 100 yards. this advantage is so it doesnt scare any other yotes that might be following at a further range.

As you might guess, similar situation with gophers in Alberta. I have the same gun, and almost bought the same scope. In the end I got a Bushnell Banner 6-18x50AO. There are times though where the 24X and mildots would be very helpful. A bench and rests in the back of a half ton and the gun can reach out there and get them. So far 95 yards is my best, but on a calm day I can see going out a bit more. Mildots would gain some more over that again.

In case you are interested here is the results of my accuracy testing in the gun so far. While no high velocity or hollow point the Eley Target Rifle was quite deadly. In cheaper HP high velocity, so far Remington Cyclones are the best I have found. The CCI Green Tag and Eley Tenex were only based on 5 groups so the results should be treated with some suspect.



Ron

[webs]

I own a Savage Arms Mark II BTVS .22 rimfire and can also say they are good shooters as well as good quality rifles.I hunt Squirrel with it and limit my shots to about 40 yards or maybe a little more.I use it in the early season when the leaf cover is thick and shots longer than 40 yards are rare.Great rifle for the money.

[alaskamonte]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

As you might guess, similar situation with gophers in Alberta. I have the same gun, and almost bought the same scope. In the end I got a Bushnell Banner 6-18x50AO. There are times though where the 24X and mildots would be very helpful. A bench and rests in the back of a half ton and the gun can reach out there and get them. So far 95 yards is my best, but on a calm day I can see going out a bit more. Mildots would gain some more over that again.

In case you are interested here is the results of my accuracy testing in the gun so far. While no high velocity or hollow point the Eley Target Rifle was quite deadly. In cheaper HP high velocity, so far Remington Cyclones are the best I have found. The CCI Green Tag and Eley Tenex were only based on 5 groups so the results should be treated with some suspect.



Ron

avg? Of how many shots/groups?

STDEV??? Standard Deviation? Huh?

3SIGMA????

EST 5Shot?? Estimated??????


What was the standard test distance?

How many rounds were fired for testing each brand?

Was the gun barrel cleaned between each brand of ammo tested or how many rounds were fired to "season" the barrel for each brand of ammos particular lube?

Your graph obviously has taken a lot of work but I'm having problems interpreting it.

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by alaskamonte

avg? Of how many shots/groups?
STDEV??? Standard Deviation? Huh?
3SIGMA????
EST 5Shot?? Estimated??????
What was the standard test distance?
How many rounds were fired for testing each brand?
Was the gun barrel cleaned between each brand of ammo tested or how many rounds were fired to "season" the barrel for each brand of ammos particular lube?
Your graph obviously has taken a lot of work but I'm having problems interpreting it.

Yes, I did not give you much background. The average group size is for two shot groups. The method was developed by a university professor who is also a benchrest shooter. You can read the complete article here:

Testing loads

With the exception of the Tenex and Green Tag most of the loads were tested with 24 groups of two. For some rounds I have shot 48 groups of two.

Yes STDEV is the Excel code for Standard Deviation or a measure of how consistent the load was. Three standard deviations or 3 sigma group size is the group that 99.9% of future groups are expected to fall within.



The five shot group estimation is kind of complicated. To save ammo I only shot 5 shot groups for the ones that are gold in colour. I then used an Excel Regression Analsysis to come up with a formula to estimate 5 shot group sizes. It is not bang on, but reasonably close.

All shooting was done at an indoor range at 40 yards. Group sizes (two shot and 5 shot) were increased by 25% to estimate 50 yard group sizes.

I did not clean between every brand change. I value my barrel more than that. I did clean after the standard lube loads and before the heavy wax loads (Lapua Master, Midas, Eley Tenex). As far as seasoning shots, I could not see any trend that seasoning was actually taking place.

For the Eley Target Rifle and Lapua Super Club, and Remington Cyclones I have shot different batches and when you add the addition data in from the different batch, their change in group size was insignficant. It did not result in any change in the overall rankings.

One thing I should add is that while the list is sorted in a particular order, it does not mean that the one higher up is really better. I did another sort of an earlier version of the data and showed the probability that the one at the top of the list, Lapua Midas M, was really better than each of the ones below it. 95% is generally taken as solid reliability that there is a difference. You can see you have to go a fair way down the list before confidence hits 95%.



Ron

[alaskamonte]

Back at ya Ron, firstly Jessie is an idiot!
It takes 10-20 rounds to seat the particular lube to your bore. In other words Ron, throw away the crappy early groups.

Second Wolf Match Extra sucks at 100yds, Wolf MT won me money!

BTW, in the firearms lexicon Standard Deviation refers to freaking chronograph readings!

You are aware that as the bullet transitions from super to subsonic (like at 100yds) queer things happen to the accuracy? Need I mention that 40yds is pistol range?

Enjoy, have fun, I'm just attempting to teach not berate Ron.

My winning group here in Anchorage was with a group of all comers with any two-d-two, any sight, bagged. My trophy was a bowling pin with a plastic dragon fly atop, money came from side bets.

Posted on another thread here, .312 before subtraction.

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by alaskamonte

Back at ya Ron, firstly Jessie is an idiot!
It takes 10-20 rounds to seat the particular lube to your bore. In other words Ron, throw away the crappy early groups.

Second Wolf Match Extra sucks at 100yds, Wolf MT won me money!

BTW, in the firearms lexicon Standard Deviation refers to freaking chronograph readings!

You are aware that as the bullet transitions from super to subsonic (like at 100yds) queer things happen to the accuracy? Need I mention that 40yds is pistol range?

Enjoy, have fun, I'm just attempting to teach not berate Ron.

My winning group here in Anchorage was with a group of all comers with any two-d-two, any sight, bagged. My trophy was a bowling pin with a plastic dragon fly atop, money came from side bets.

Posted on another thread here, .312 before subtraction.

Not sure who you mean by Jessie? The author of the article I posted is Brent, and goes by the sign on of Musdalen at the RFC forum. There are a number of threads there on the method of testing, and some just don't accept it. I think the reality is that some people have to see the groups to visualize the outcome, and others have the confidence to trust the math. If you want to dig through all the gorey details check here.

Ammo Weight Deviation, and Cost Indicates Accuracy? - RimfireCentral.com Forums

On the need for fouling shots some believe you have to shoot 1 per inch of barrel. Others believe the lube lasts for a number of rounds after you stop shooting it. And still others believe it is a lot of hoey! I have done trends of the group size vs the number of shots fired, and could not detect any improvement. So I am in the camp of at best it is a minor effect. Yes, if I was in a competition, I would do it, as you need to sight in and get some practice anyway. And for this testing I simply did not have enough of it to waste one per inch of barrel (21).

Did you know that Wolf is not a manufacturer, and it is just a brand name? Same deal with SK. They are really all made by Lapua, and I believe Lapua, Wolf, and SK all come from the same factory (originally a SK factory and located in former Soviet East Germany), and just get branded differently. Wolf or SK is not available easily here, so I'm not real familiar with the specific brands. However, if the bullet is covered with a slippery and somewhat tackly clear lube they are likely similar or identical to the Lapua Club Extra loads that I tested. If they are covered with a somewhat opaque white wax, then they are likely similar or identical to the Lapua Master M. Lapua has dropped the Club Extra, and Club from their lineup for 2008 and to get it once the existing stock runs out, you will have to buy it as Wolf or SK.

Yes, you can calculate the standard deviation of velocity, or any group of numbers such as cartridge weight, group size, etc... It is a measure of how consistent a group of numbers is. Ammo that is plagued with "flyers" may have a lower average group size, but a higher standard deviation. This indicates it is generally good, but does have issues with bad rounds occasionally. If you look at the list the better quality ammo tends to have lower standard deviation.

Until I get to an outdoor range I am limited to a 40 yard range. Having no wind however has been a big plus for testing, as that variable is not affecting the group sizes.

Yes, velocity is a factor and you can probably see that the higher accuracy ammo is all subsonic right from the muzzle out. However the ultra high velocity stuff which will remain supersonic right out to the target, is generally the worst for accuracy. This leads me to believe the problem is velocity, and not the transition.

Ron

[troylaplante]

Originally Posted by webs

I own a Savage Arms Mark II BTVS .22 rimfire and can also say they are good shooters as well as good quality rifles.

Of the .22 rifles I have, my Savage is actually my favorite. I like it better than the Marlin. For the low price, I have been happy with the Savage. I have been extremely accurate with iron sights at 25 yards, but have not taken it out much further than that.