There is NO Romanian Dragunov!

BattleRifleG3 · 01-24-2006, 12:47 PM

For years people have been advertising a "Romanian Dragunov." That rifle is in fact NOT a Dragunov in any way, having nothing in common but the stock style, general shape and size, and 7.62x54R chambering (and both also in a more rare 308 version).

The true names for these rifles include FPK, PSL, ROMAK 3, and others. They are based on the RPK action, a heavier version of the AK used as a light machine gun but also the basis for the highly accurate VEPR rifles and a few Yugoslavian models.

It used to be only the dealers and distributors that were falsely labelling these rifles "Dragunovs", but now even the importers are marking them as "Dragunovs" right on the rifles.

Friends, THESE ARE NOT DRAGUNOVS. Dragunovs are a completely different design of rifle from the AK, while these Romanians are most certainly larger variants of the AK.

Now for the good news - THESE ARE ALSO VERY GOOD RIFLES. Military and civilian alike have compared these with real Dragunov rifles and have found them to be equally good. The only notable limitation of these rifles is that they should be fired withammunition in the 150gr range, not heavier such as the 175gr. This is damaging to the action.

Perhaps the biggest difference to the American buyer is the price. Real Dragunovs range from the low 1000s for a sporting model called the TIGR, while Chinese and Russian versions can go well over 2 and 3 thousand, as they are NO LONGER IMPORTED. FPK/PSL/Romak-IIIs, still imported, range in the high three digits, and usually include an appropriate scope. From the best price of $600 without a scope to just under a grand for complete packages in harder to reach places or locales with high overhead and low sales volumes, these are well priced ALTERNATIVEs to a Dragunov, but they are NOT the same thing.

Labelling them as Dragunovs has been at best an honest mistake and at worst an outright lie. Buyers be aware. But don't be afraid to buy a Romanian rifle labeled "Dragunov" for a reasonable price.

NRAJOE · 01-24-2006, 02:14 PM

We know...

7mmag6 · 01-24-2006, 02:50 PM

SGN had an article about this about 3 years ago

BattleRifleG3 · 01-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Unfortunately the subject keeps coming up so I figured it was worthy of a sticky.

FutureMarine · 01-24-2006, 10:47 PM

Are they still quality rifles though?

BattleRifleG3 · 01-24-2006, 11:11 PM

Absolutely, and worth every bit of $600-800.

FutureMarine · 02-19-2006, 10:57 PM

out of curiosity, can anyone tell me why they are NOT legal in California? They are 10 rds semi auto! Is it because it RESEMBLES an AK?

BattleRifleG3 · 02-20-2006, 12:40 PM

Pretty much.

grndesert · 05-28-2006, 02:22 PM

"The only notable limitation of these rifles is that they should be fired with ammunition in the 150gr range, not heavier such as the 175gr. This is damaging to the action". BattleRifleG3
So only use 150gr bullets.I've never heard that.I have a Romak III and,ive
shot about 5 or 6 rds,of surplus ammo through it. Just to make sure it would fire.I was thinking about buying some match grade ammo for it.So it "HAS" to
be no more than 150gr bullet???? What happens to the action if you use
a larger grain bullet?

FutureMarine · 05-28-2006, 02:29 PM

i think after time it just wears it out

BattleRifleG3 · 05-29-2006, 09:51 PM

I believe it can actually cause some parts breakage.

If you've fired surplus ammo in it I hope you've used cleaning agents that neutralize the corrosive primers.

waltham41 · 07-26-2007, 11:21 PM

I own a kit built Romak 3, built by TG International with romanian parts , marked Draganov by the way, and have heard in a lot of different boards that anything over 150gr puts stress on the bolt and bolt carrier during recoil.

I use corrosive surplus ammo, and clean it twice after firing, using Hoppes #9 and have not had any problems with rust or corrosion. Have only fired a couple of thousand rounds through it though.

Great rifle for the price.

just_a_car · 07-27-2007, 12:54 AM

Classic Arms Inc. Currently has a few of these for $770 with accessories!!! I'd say it's a really great deal and I'd jump on it if I had the expendable cash.

BattleRifleG3 · 07-27-2007, 09:48 PM

Unfortunately, even the importers are mislabelling these excellent rifles as Dragunovs, forcing dealers to record them as such even when they're no such thing.

They're an AK based sniper rifle. The Dragunov is a completely independent platform.

GunRangeSniper · 04-03-2008, 09:45 PM

Wolf is now offering a 150 grain, BRASS CASED round at a good price. It's true, the heavier stuff tears the ROMAK-3 up. It has even bent the cover from slamming the action back so hard.

Mooseman684 · 04-03-2008, 09:57 PM

My Russian Tiger will eat anything put thru it....and It is Now worth about 2500 Bucks...not 1000 !
Rich

Free_Man_1911 · 05-26-2008, 08:13 AM

I've been wanting one of these Romak PSL's for awhile now... Maybe one day...

--------------------------
Free_Man_1911

The other good Gun Forum:
http://www.MitchelGifts.com

7.62/39 · 06-30-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_a_car

Classic Arms Inc. Currently has a few of these for $770 with accessories!!! I'd say it's a really great deal and I'd jump on it if I had the expendable cash.

Weapons Collection at gunforall.com

this guy has them for 769 same thing? check it out, its GFA Gun For All More bang for your buck - Gun Shop

billy · 06-30-2008, 11:38 PM

if dealers are labeling them with the dragunov name and it is engraved on the receiver and registered as a dragunov.
and the sales papers say dragunov.
then isn't it legally a dragunov rifle as recognized by a court of law?

SwedeSteve · 07-01-2008, 12:03 PM

Good point !!

01-24-2006, 12:47 PM	#1
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	There is NO Romanian Dragunov! For years people have been advertising a "Romanian Dragunov." That rifle is in fact NOT a Dragunov in any way, having nothing in common but the stock style, general shape and size, and 7.62x54R chambering (and both also in a more rare 308 version). The true names for these rifles include FPK, PSL, ROMAK 3, and others. They are based on the RPK action, a heavier version of the AK used as a light machine gun but also the basis for the highly accurate VEPR rifles and a few Yugoslavian models. It used to be only the dealers and distributors that were falsely labelling these rifles "Dragunovs", but now even the importers are marking them as "Dragunovs" right on the rifles. Friends, THESE ARE NOT DRAGUNOVS. Dragunovs are a completely different design of rifle from the AK, while these Romanians are most certainly larger variants of the AK. Now for the good news - THESE ARE ALSO VERY GOOD RIFLES. Military and civilian alike have compared these with real Dragunov rifles and have found them to be equally good. The only notable limitation of these rifles is that they should be fired withammunition in the 150gr range, not heavier such as the 175gr. This is damaging to the action. Perhaps the biggest difference to the American buyer is the price. Real Dragunovs range from the low 1000s for a sporting model called the TIGR, while Chinese and Russian versions can go well over 2 and 3 thousand, as they are NO LONGER IMPORTED. FPK/PSL/Romak-IIIs, still imported, range in the high three digits, and usually include an appropriate scope. From the best price of $600 without a scope to just under a grand for complete packages in harder to reach places or locales with high overhead and low sales volumes, these are well priced ALTERNATIVEs to a Dragunov, but they are NOT the same thing. Labelling them as Dragunovs has been at best an honest mistake and at worst an outright lie. Buyers be aware. But don't be afraid to buy a Romanian rifle labeled "Dragunov" for a reasonable price. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-24-2006, 10:36 PM	#4
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Unfortunately the subject keeps coming up so I figured it was worthy of a sticky. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

01-24-2006, 11:11 PM	#6
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Absolutely, and worth every bit of $600-800. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

02-20-2006, 12:40 PM	#8
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Pretty much. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

05-28-2006, 02:29 PM	#10
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946 Trader Rating: (0)	i think after time it just wears it out __________________ Semper Fi

01-24-2006, 02:14 PM	#2
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,014 Trader Rating: (0)	We know...

01-24-2006, 02:50 PM	#3
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Trader Rating: (0)	SGN had an article about this about 3 years ago

01-24-2006, 10:47 PM	#5
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946 Trader Rating: (0)	Are they still quality rifles though?

02-19-2006, 10:57 PM	#7
FutureMarine Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: PRK Posts: 1,946 Trader Rating: (0)	out of curiosity, can anyone tell me why they are NOT legal in California? They are 10 rds semi auto! Is it because it RESEMBLES an AK?

05-28-2006, 02:22 PM	#9
grndesert Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Harris Co. Texas Posts: 133 Trader Rating: (0)	"The only notable limitation of these rifles is that they should be fired with ammunition in the 150gr range, not heavier such as the 175gr. This is damaging to the action". BattleRifleG3 So only use 150gr bullets.I've never heard that.I have a Romak III and,ive shot about 5 or 6 rds,of surplus ammo through it. Just to make sure it would fire.I was thinking about buying some match grade ammo for it.So it "HAS" to be no more than 150gr bullet???? What happens to the action if you use a larger grain bullet? __________________ I Protect my 1st amendment right by my 2nd amendment right!! :guitar: :gangster:

05-29-2006, 09:51 PM	#11
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	I believe it can actually cause some parts breakage. If you've fired surplus ammo in it I hope you've used cleaning agents that neutralize the corrosive primers. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

07-26-2007, 11:21 PM	#12
waltham41 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 25 Trader Rating: (0)	I own a kit built Romak 3, built by TG International with romanian parts , marked Draganov by the way, and have heard in a lot of different boards that anything over 150gr puts stress on the bolt and bolt carrier during recoil. I use corrosive surplus ammo, and clean it twice after firing, using Hoppes #9 and have not had any problems with rust or corrosion. Have only fired a couple of thousand rounds through it though. Great rifle for the price.

07-27-2007, 12:54 AM	#13
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,422 Trader Rating: (0)	Classic Arms Inc. Currently has a few of these for $770 *with accessories!!!* I'd say it's a really great deal and I'd jump on it if I had the expendable cash. __________________

07-27-2007, 09:48 PM	#14
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Trader Rating: (0)	Unfortunately, even the importers are mislabelling these excellent rifles as Dragunovs, forcing dealers to record them as such even when they're no such thing. They're an AK based sniper rifle. The Dragunov is a completely independent platform. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

04-03-2008, 09:45 PM	#15
GunRangeSniper Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0)	150 Grain 7.62x54R Wolf is now offering a 150 grain, BRASS CASED round at a good price. It's true, the heavier stuff tears the ROMAK-3 up. It has even bent the cover from slamming the action back so hard.

07-01-2008, 12:03 PM	#20
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,181 Trader Rating: (0)	Good point !! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

04-03-2008, 09:57 PM	#16
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,285 Trader Rating: (0)	My Russian Tiger will eat anything put thru it....and It is Now worth about 2500 Bucks...not 1000 ! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

05-26-2008, 08:13 AM	#17
Free_Man_1911 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: I live right next to my 1911 :-) Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0)	I've been wanting one of these Romak PSL's for awhile now... Maybe one day... -------------------------- Free_Man_1911 The other good Gun Forum: http://www.MitchelGifts.com Last edited by Free_Man_1911; 05-26-2008 at 08:18 AM. Reason: .........

06-30-2008, 11:38 PM	#19
billy spiritual counselor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 10,865 Trader Rating: (0)	if dealers are labeling them with the dragunov name and it is engraved on the receiver and registered as a dragunov. and the sales papers say dragunov. then isn't it legally a dragunov rifle as recognized by a court of law? __________________ i'll keep an eye out for ya! Last edited by billy; 06-30-2008 at 11:41 PM.