Relic?? 50 years old if made in 1957??

[Paper]

OK..
I'm looking at a gun that was manufactured between 1949 and 1957. These didn't have serial numbers, by they way..
So.. My question is.. Since the last years of manufacture was 1957, the gun is now ABSOLUTELY a relic, right??
The rule states that the gun must be 50 years old. 1957 to 2007 is 50..
Right??

[billy]

not always .. i have a bunch of books,booklets ,lists of firearms ect that the BATF sent me. if you will tell me what firearm i will look it up. the list seems to be changing constantly. so the engraved in stone answer is maybe!

[Paper]

Originally Posted by billy

not always .. i have a bunch of books,booklets ,lists of firearms ect that the BATF sent me. if you will tell me what firearm i will look it up. the list seems to be changing constantly. so the engraved in stone answer is maybe!

Remember.. C and R is Curio (what's listed in the book) and Relic (anything 50 years old, as defined by BATF)

A gun, to purchase as a C and R, must meet at least one of the requirements.. Only one, at least, as in either a Curio, or a Relic..

I've purchased several Mossberg 151K .22's.. They were made from 1950-1951 only.. They're covered under the Relic portion.. I like Mossbergs.. I want more.. I want a 142... BAD!!!

[Mooseman684]

Curio and relics lists are available, but a gun Mfg. in 1957 most likely is NOT a Relic...Has to meet certain Qualifications...What gun is it ???

[Orlando]

No serial number in the 50's ? Thats gotta make you wonder

[Paper]

Curio and relics lists are available, but a gun Mfg. in 1957 most likely is NOT a Relic...Has to meet certain Qualifications...What gun is it ???

It's a Mossberg 142.

Bolt action, and the front portion of the stock folds down.. None of the Mossy's of that era have serial numbers.

You guys need to remember, a gun doesn't have to be on the List, to be eligible.

Take directly from the BATF website:

This publication is a cumulative digest of determinations made by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and is not inclusive of all weapons meeting curio or relic classification (i.e., firearms manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date).

A gun needs to be 50 years old to be C and R eligible, and doesn't have to be on the list. Some of the guns on the list are not 50 years old, but are eligible because they're Curios.

A Relic is anything that meets the requirement of being 50 years old, but you have to be able to prove it's at least 50 through serial number/barrel date stamping OR the fact that the manufacturing quit 50 years ago.

As stated on the BATF site, and be sure to read the line about the fact that it must fall into one of the catagories.. ONE.. First catagory, Must be manufactured 50 years ago.

WHAT ARE CURIOS OR RELICS?
As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 178.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

So, now back to my orginal question.. It's been 50 years, but officially, I suppose I can't purchase one of these until 50 years after the last day of manufacture. I guess I need to find out what day and month they stopped making the 142??

Actually, I can show that it's an earlier version of this model because the early versions have a wooden section that folds down, where the later versions are a hard plastic, and this one's wood..

[Big Dog]

It's also up to the seller to decide if he wants to abide by the rules of C&R or not - in a case where the model was made before and after the 50 year mark, many sellers WON'T treat it as a C&R. Too much trouble to bother with.

Heck, next month I become C&R myself - I'm a '57 model born in March.

[Paper]

Originally Posted by Big Dog

It's also up to the seller to decide if he wants to abide by the rules of C&R or not - in a case where the model was made before and after the 50 year mark, many sellers WON'T treat it as a C&R. Too much trouble to bother with.
Heck, next month I become C&R myself - I'm a '57 model born in March.

Actually, most sellers that I've contacted on Auction Arms and Gun Broker have been more than happy to sell C and R guns. I think of all the emails I've sent out, only one came back where the guy didn't want to do C and R..

In fact, I'm also looking at a Mossberg 46 and the guy in Maine emailed back within minutes that he was more than happy to sell the gun as C and R, even though he didn't list it that way.

[Big Dog]

Excellent! Sounds like you'll soon need another gun locker. Hehehe.

[couchtr26]

Technically, yes it does fall into that requirement. However, it is up to the seller. The most common places to encounter problems are gun shows and pawn shops. They best way to avoid problems is to order the list. Go to the ATF form request and ask for the list of approved weapons. You get no refusal with the list backing you. However, on that note you should have received that along with 2 or 3 other books on gun laws and such with your C&R.

[Paper]

Originally Posted by couchtr26

Technically, yes it does fall into that requirement. However, it is up to the seller. The most common places to encounter problems are gun shows and pawn shops. They best way to avoid problems is to order the list. Go to the ATF form request and ask for the list of approved weapons. You get no refusal with the list backing you. However, on that note you should have received that along with 2 or 3 other books on gun laws and such with your C&R.

I have the list. This isn't about the list, this is about a gun actually being eligible before even involving the seller. Like I said, almost all sellers I've run into have been all for selling it as a C and R gun. This is about whether a gun that was manufactured up until 1957 is legally eligible.

As far as sellers who don't want to accept a FFL 03, that's up to them, and I'm completely fine with it. As a matter of fact, on of the biggest gun shops in my area refuses 03's, no matter if the gun's on the list or not. It's his choice.

I asked him about it one day and he said that since he sells sometimes hundreds of guns each week, he'd be responsible to show proof of elegibility to the BATF, if inspected. If he doesn't accept an 03 and accepts only 01's and 4473's, it's not an issue.. He's up front about it, and I understand. It his business..

I've wanted a Mossy 142 for a while, and I didn't buy a few of them last year because at 49 years old, I knew I could wait a year and buy a good one and have it shipped directly to me, rather than ponying up the extra money to send it to a dealer and having to rely on them to send their 01 and actually contact me when it arrives..

I like the 03 because it cuts out the middle man. And in most cases, the middle man doesn't care.. I actually would rather wait a year than trust a middle man..