HI power and lead reloads

wolverine · 01-31-2007, 04:33 AM

In a short word, DON"T.

Didnt hurt my gun but scared teh bejeezus out of me.

lefty o · 01-31-2007, 04:57 AM

the browning hi power is PERFECTLY SAFE for use with lead reloads. just because some knucklehead tries to blow up their own gun doesnt mean its the guns fault. how exactly is it your blaming lead, or the hi power on this. sorry, but there has been way to much lead fired through hi powers without people having these issues. either there is something wrong with your pistol, or your reloading procedures.

samuel · 01-31-2007, 06:06 AM

I agree with Lefty O.I cant feature what happened,I never had a case look like that.I wish I knew more.Was it fully in battery or some how didnt lock in but fired anyway? 40yrs reloading and I never saw this.I am positive Lefty O is right about cast bullets because I have fired thousands of them and never saw that happen. samuel.

wolverine · 01-31-2007, 11:33 PM

Ive fired tens of thousands of lead reloads loaded the same as these out my G17 and hi Point C9 with few failures (usually bad primers). I took it to my smith and had him check it and he said the chamber was in spec. The issue here is the chamber is shaving lead off the bullet and piling it up at the case mouth until it headspaces far enough back to pop. It shoots FMJ and JHP ammo fine. Its just the combiantion of this particular ammo and the HP chamber that seems to not work.

lefty o · 02-01-2007, 03:24 AM

it looks to me like that was fired without the round being fully chambered, there is no other way that you could get a ring all the way around the base of the brass like that otherwise. you dont even want to begin to guess how much lead ive put through browning hi powers, alot- and ive never had issues with lead.

wolverine · 02-01-2007, 06:38 AM

Actually the pic is a bit decieving. The bulge is on the bottom of the case where the feed ramp leaves it unsupported. the top of the case is still straight. Out of curiosity what load and bullet are you using?

SW

lefty o · 02-01-2007, 08:45 AM

in my 9mm or my 40, i shoot lead in both- well all three actually.

more questions- what exact model is your hi power- MKIII or MKII or earlier? did you buy it new or used? hi power barrels have very good support in the chamber ie no bulged brass, it is quite possible that somebody has throated/altered the feed ramp of your pistol. im still sold on the fact that it is either your pistol, or your reloads. people have been shooting lead out of hi powers for over 70yrs, and this is not normal.

wolverine · 02-01-2007, 03:20 PM

It is a MKIII made in 2002.

SW

lefty o · 02-01-2007, 07:02 PM

unless you, or your gunsmith has worked on the feedramp of that pistol i would be sending it to browning for warranty work.

wolverine · 02-01-2007, 08:04 PM

Can you show my what an unaltered feedramp looks like? Mine is clean and looks as though it hasnt been altered.

lefty o · 02-02-2007, 10:35 PM

i dont happen to have any pictures. i am about 95% certain that either your loads or your pistol has something wrong with it, so im going to point you in the direction of some one that may be more helpfull. Don Williams of "the action works". Action Works Pistolsmith - Gunsmith > Home ( DNN 4.3.1 ) shoot him an email with the above picture, and maybe one with a close up of the feed ramp of your barrel and see what he thinks. Don is a very nice guy, and happens to be among the best hi power gunsmiths in the world.

Mooseman684 · 02-02-2007, 11:04 PM

Too much Powder !

wolverine · 02-03-2007, 09:59 AM

I got finnaly got my camera working and heres some pics of my barrel. ive had several other guys look at it and they all said the mouth has been cut. its going back to the dealer next week.

Mooseman- relaods from the same batch have been pulled and checked and test fired in 2 other 9mm pistols. they are within spec and fired fine in other guns. its this particular hi power thats giving fits.

Mooseman684 · 02-03-2007, 10:48 AM

I have been reloading for many years and I shoot a lot of 9mm. In the last pictures the round looks seated ok since there is a web on a 9mm case that is pretty thick ,around .200 that can stick out of the barrel. Now a lot of other factors are relevant, but since I can't examine it first hand I can only guess. You did not mention what the load was for powder type and weight and it only takes a tenth of a grain or 2 on the 9mm to overpressure, Also bullets that are not sized properly when pushed into the case can open it just a bit and not allow the cartridge to seat properly. .355 diameter bullets are necessary, .357 diameter can raise pressures a few thousand pounds and seating bullets .030 deeper can cause pressures to go over 60,000 cup which is way over the 35,700 cup pressure maximum.
Take a look at Speer Reloader Manual # 10, pg 349......
Rich

wolverine · 02-03-2007, 03:16 PM

The load im running is 4.3 gr of red dot behind a 125 gr lead truncated flat point bullet. that is .3 grains under max as listed by the Lee reloading book. I pulled 20 bullets from the same lot and none varied more that .1 grain above or below the 4.3 number. Also all my rounds are checked for case OAL and finished OAL during the reload process and any that are out of spec are recyled. IVe shot LOTS of this particular loading and ive never had any trouble until i started with this hi power. After taking it to smiths and talking to brownings repair division we've come to the conclusion that this gun was modified to the point where its unsafe to fire.

K75RT · 03-23-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverine

Ive fired tens of thousands of lead reloads loaded the same as these out my G17 and hi Point C9 with few failures (usually bad primers). I took it to my smith and had him check it and he said the chamber was in spec. The issue here is the chamber is shaving lead off the bullet and piling it up at the case mouth until it headspaces far enough back to pop. It shoots FMJ and JHP ammo fine. Its just the combiantion of this particular ammo and the HP chamber that seems to not work.

Wolverine, if you are shooting a Glock 17 using lead reloads with a stock barrel I'd stop doing that immediately; the polygonal bore is not made to shoot lead and there have been catastrophic failure documented when shooting lead reloads through the G17 and G19 models....

wolverine · 04-03-2007, 11:26 PM

K75- you can shoot as much lead as you want out of a polygonal barrel as long as you stop ever 250 rounds or so and clean it out. the wording in the manual that says dont shoot lead is a CYA from the company lawyers. Go to glockfaq and check out thier section. Lots of us do it with no KBs, we just have to use a littel comon sense.

SW

01-31-2007, 04:33 AM	#1
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	HI power and lead reloads In a short word, DON"T. Didnt hurt my gun but scared teh bejeezus out of me.

02-01-2007, 08:45 AM	#7
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,806	in my 9mm or my 40, i shoot lead in both- well all three actually. more questions- what exact model is your hi power- MKIII or MKII or earlier? did you buy it new or used? hi power barrels have very good support in the chamber ie no bulged brass, it is quite possible that somebody has throated/altered the feed ramp of your pistol. im still sold on the fact that it is either your pistol, or your reloads. people have been shooting lead out of hi powers for over 70yrs, and this is not normal. Last edited by lefty o; 02-01-2007 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

02-02-2007, 11:04 PM	#12
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,678 Images: 2	Too much Powder ! __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-03-2007, 10:48 AM	#14
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,678 Images: 2	I have been reloading for many years and I shoot a lot of 9mm. In the last pictures the round looks seated ok since there is a web on a 9mm case that is pretty thick ,around .200 that can stick out of the barrel. Now a lot of other factors are relevant, but since I can't examine it first hand I can only guess. You did not mention what the load was for powder type and weight and it only takes a tenth of a grain or 2 on the 9mm to overpressure, Also bullets that are not sized properly when pushed into the case can open it just a bit and not allow the cartridge to seat properly. .355 diameter bullets are necessary, .357 diameter can raise pressures a few thousand pounds and seating bullets .030 deeper can cause pressures to go over 60,000 cup which is way over the 35,700 cup pressure maximum. Take a look at Speer Reloader Manual # 10, pg 349...... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-03-2007, 11:26 PM	#17
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	K75- you can shoot as much lead as you want out of a polygonal barrel as long as you stop ever 250 rounds or so and clean it out. the wording in the manual that says dont shoot lead is a CYA from the company lawyers. Go to glockfaq and check out thier section. Lots of us do it with no KBs, we just have to use a littel comon sense. SW __________________ http://snfwtp.blogspot.com/

01-31-2007, 04:57 AM	#2
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,806	the browning hi power is PERFECTLY SAFE for use with lead reloads. just because some knucklehead tries to blow up their own gun doesnt mean its the guns fault. how exactly is it your blaming lead, or the hi power on this. sorry, but there has been way to much lead fired through hi powers without people having these issues. either there is something wrong with your pistol, or your reloading procedures.

01-31-2007, 06:06 AM	#3
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	I agree with Lefty O.I cant feature what happened,I never had a case look like that.I wish I knew more.Was it fully in battery or some how didnt lock in but fired anyway? 40yrs reloading and I never saw this.I am positive Lefty O is right about cast bullets because I have fired thousands of them and never saw that happen. samuel.

01-31-2007, 11:33 PM	#4
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	Ive fired tens of thousands of lead reloads loaded the same as these out my G17 and hi Point C9 with few failures (usually bad primers). I took it to my smith and had him check it and he said the chamber was in spec. The issue here is the chamber is shaving lead off the bullet and piling it up at the case mouth until it headspaces far enough back to pop. It shoots FMJ and JHP ammo fine. Its just the combiantion of this particular ammo and the HP chamber that seems to not work.

02-01-2007, 03:24 AM	#5
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,806	it looks to me like that was fired without the round being fully chambered, there is no other way that you could get a ring all the way around the base of the brass like that otherwise. you dont even want to begin to guess how much lead ive put through browning hi powers, alot- and ive never had issues with lead.

02-01-2007, 06:38 AM	#6
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	Actually the pic is a bit decieving. The bulge is on the bottom of the case where the feed ramp leaves it unsupported. the top of the case is still straight. Out of curiosity what load and bullet are you using? SW

02-01-2007, 03:20 PM	#8
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	It is a MKIII made in 2002. SW

02-01-2007, 07:02 PM	#9
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,806	unless you, or your gunsmith has worked on the feedramp of that pistol i would be sending it to browning for warranty work.

02-01-2007, 08:04 PM	#10
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	Can you show my what an unaltered feedramp looks like? Mine is clean and looks as though it hasnt been altered.

02-02-2007, 10:35 PM	#11
lefty o Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: mn Posts: 4,806	i dont happen to have any pictures. i am about 95% certain that either your loads or your pistol has something wrong with it, so im going to point you in the direction of some one that may be more helpfull. Don Williams of "the action works". Action Works Pistolsmith - Gunsmith > Home ( DNN 4.3.1 ) shoot him an email with the above picture, and maybe one with a close up of the feed ramp of your barrel and see what he thinks. Don is a very nice guy, and happens to be among the best hi power gunsmiths in the world.

02-03-2007, 09:59 AM	#13
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	I got finnaly got my camera working and heres some pics of my barrel. ive had several other guys look at it and they all said the mouth has been cut. its going back to the dealer next week. Mooseman- relaods from the same batch have been pulled and checked and test fired in 2 other 9mm pistols. they are within spec and fired fine in other guns. its this particular hi power thats giving fits.

02-03-2007, 03:16 PM	#15
wolverine Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 132	The load im running is 4.3 gr of red dot behind a 125 gr lead truncated flat point bullet. that is .3 grains under max as listed by the Lee reloading book. I pulled 20 bullets from the same lot and none varied more that .1 grain above or below the 4.3 number. Also all my rounds are checked for case OAL and finished OAL during the reload process and any that are out of spec are recyled. IVe shot LOTS of this particular loading and ive never had any trouble until i started with this hi power. After taking it to smiths and talking to brownings repair division we've come to the conclusion that this gun was modified to the point where its unsafe to fire.