Wolf Ammo... Unsafe?!?

Spikestrip · 04-25-2007, 10:35 PM

Just got some Wolf 9x18 Makarov ammo in, and checked the rules of the local indoor shooting range; "NO WOLF AMMUNITION ALLOWED"!
FIRING-LINE Indoor Shooting Ranges

I called them to ask why (after placing a $100 order with J&G Sales for this ammo), and was told that, "it's unsafe; it goes off when it wants".

Sounds fishy to me, not sure why they'd say that...

Has anyone encountered this?

Mooseman684 · 04-25-2007, 11:04 PM

I personally have fired thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo without a problem, so I don't have a clue...It is imported ammo and fairly good Military ammo as ammo goes. It never has hangfired, or mis-fired in any of my weapons..
I have had worse ammo, Turkish, portugese, and South American.
Rich

.22guy · 04-25-2007, 11:19 PM

I've shot quite a bit of Wolf in my .45 and SKS and never had a hiccup of any kind. Sounds kinda like gun snobbery to me....

just_a_car · 04-25-2007, 11:22 PM

Spikestrip, it's likely because it's both steel-cased and berdan-primed. Your range probably sells the cases after collecting them and they don't want to take the time to sort through to sort out berdan-primed cases. Same with if they just sell the brass as scrap metal, they don't want to have to sort out the steel cases.

I've heard stories about other ranges doing it for this reason from other people on G&G.

Edit:
You should tell them to shove-it and that you're going to take your business elsewhere and that you're going to tell all your friends and shooting buddies not to shoot there. I read through their rules and it sounds like they're a bunch of gun-snobs.

"18. RENTAL GUNS MUST BE USED WITH FIRING-LINE COPPER PLATED RELOADED AMMUNITION ONLY.

19. FIRING-LINE RELOADED BRASS MUST BE RETURNED TO COUNTER. YOU WILL BE CHARGED FOR MISSING BRASS. REMEMBER THE BRASS IS THE PROPERTY OF FIRING-LINE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE RANGE."

There's nothing wrong with requiring you use their ammo in their guns, but number 19 above is BS! You payed for the darn ammo, it's your's to do with as you like. Tell 'em to shove-it.

Mooseman684 · 04-25-2007, 11:42 PM

Commiefornia Shooting Rules...Sound more on the side of Anti-gunners.
A simple Magnet will pull out steel cases.
Come on up to Alaska and shoot at my Range, anything you want your gun to digest is fine with me!
Rangemaster Rich

billy · 04-26-2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_a_car

Spikestrip, it's likely because it's both steel-cased and berdan-primed. Your range probably sells the cases after collecting them and they don't want to take the time to sort through to sort out berdan-primed cases. Same with if they just sell the brass as scrap metal, they don't want to have to sort out the steel cases.

I've heard stories about other ranges doing it for this reason from other people on G&G.

Edit:
You should tell them to shove-it and that you're going to take your business elsewhere and that you're going to tell all your friends and shooting buddies not to shoot there. I read through their rules and it sounds like they're a bunch of gun-snobs.

"18. RENTAL GUNS MUST BE USED WITH FIRING-LINE COPPER PLATED RELOADED AMMUNITION ONLY.

19. FIRING-LINE RELOADED BRASS MUST BE RETURNED TO COUNTER. YOU WILL BE CHARGED FOR MISSING BRASS. REMEMBER THE BRASS IS THE PROPERTY OF FIRING-LINE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE RANGE."

There's nothing wrong with requiring you use their ammo in their guns, but number 19 above is BS! You payed for the darn ammo, it's your's to do with as you like. Tell 'em to shove-it.

+1

bigandrich44 · 04-26-2007, 06:54 AM

Yeah it is BS. I mean, what if you accidently forget 10 cases? That sounds costly. Good thing I got private land.....

BattleRifleG3 · 04-26-2007, 08:00 AM

Wolf going off whenever it wants is absolute nonsense. The opposite is true. Wolf's primers are hard and require a firm hammer strike. If anything, they wouldn't go off if a hammer spring was weak.

Bravo · 04-26-2007, 10:10 AM

Guys, it may not be because of the casings or primers or their actual "Safety". I recently purchased 100 rounds of 30 carbine wolf, and it was the most god awful ammo that I have ever shot. This is after shooting nearly 1000 rounds of wolf 7.62x39mm ammo that I absolutely loved.

Besides not feeding in my M1 Carbine, the ammo threw out (literally lofted) smoke about 10 feet from the end of the barrel. In the rare case that I was able to fire 5 rounds in rapid succession, I was nearly unable to see my target after, due to a thick cloud of black smoke (I might as well have been shooting black powder).

The smoke was also extremely toxic smelling. No gunpowder really smells good when burning, but this stuff gave off a stench very similar to that of a heavy duty cleaning bleach. I was able to smell the stuff in my nose days after shooting it.

My gun also told the tale. It was extremely gummed up after shooting 50 rounds (and I use minimal oil only in key spots). Black crud was everywhere throughout the rifle.

I would say that Wolf ammo is as safe as Winchester/Federal/Remington ammo, so for them to say that you can't use it because of accidental discharge is complete bull. If they were banning it from indoor range because of complaints from the fumes emitted, then I would definitely understand.

JoeLee · 04-26-2007, 10:52 AM

Sounds like a bunch of baloney!If the range sells ammo $$$,I'll bet WOLF ammo is not one of them.

NEVER KICK A SKUNK.

just_a_car · 04-26-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravo

Guys, it may not be because of the casings or primers or their actual "Safety". I recently purchased 100 rounds of 30 carbine wolf, and it was the most god awful ammo that I have ever shot. This is after shooting nearly 1000 rounds of wolf 7.62x39mm ammo that I absolutely loved.

Besides not feeding in my M1 Carbine, the ammo threw out (literally lofted) smoke about 10 feet from the end of the barrel. In the rare case that I was able to fire 5 rounds in rapid succession, I was nearly unable to see my target after, due to a thick cloud of black smoke (I might as well have been shooting black powder).

The smoke was also extremely toxic smelling. No gunpowder really smells good when burning, but this stuff gave off a stench very similar to that of a heavy duty cleaning bleach. I was able to smell the stuff in my nose days after shooting it.

My gun also told the tale. It was extremely gummed up after shooting 50 rounds (and I use minimal oil only in key spots). Black crud was everywhere throughout the rifle.

I would say that Wolf ammo is as safe as Winchester/Federal/Remington ammo, so for them to say that you can't use it because of accidental discharge is complete bull. If they were banning it from indoor range because of complaints from the fumes emitted, then I would definitely understand.

+1. Eventhough the ammo is safe, it is very dirty. It puts out quite a bit of white smoke (especially out of my CETME, out the receiver because of the flutes) and I found the S. African milsurp also smells like chlorine, as I mentioned on my http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/g3-...-hold-out.html (I couldn't hold out) thread. I talk about using Wolf in it on post #29 on the second page. I'm thinking the chlorine smell might be the primer using a chlorate/chloride-based chemical like the corrosive primers in 7.62x54R milsurp (potassium chlorate).

Zephri · 04-26-2007, 10:27 PM

don't all indoor ranges have ventlation fans above the shooting line. I'm sure all ammo no matter what brand puts out alot of very bad gas that you probaly shoulde'nt breath in an enclosed area.

just_a_car · 04-26-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephri

don't all indoor ranges have ventlation fans above the shooting line. I'm sure all ammo no matter what brand puts out alot of very bad gas that you probaly shoulde'nt breath in an enclosed area.

Yes, my indoor range does have ventilation going downrange to deal with smoke and lead-fumes, but my snot still had veins of black crud in it when I blew my nose after shooting Wolf .308Win.

Beer Forever · 04-26-2007, 10:32 PM

They don't allow Wolf? With all the other crappy, awful ammo out there and they bag on Wolf. I have shot so much Wolf in so many different calibers, awesome shotgun ammo, and never had a problem. It is dirty, military type ammo, that works how it should. Like Moose said, there is a lot worse ammo out there. I would rather get Hornaday if I had the money, but who wouldn't? Sound like some range snobs to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeLee

NEVER KICK A SKUNK.

I like that quote, I am stealing it.

ruger22com · 04-27-2007, 01:29 PM

The range only wants brass cassings left so they can re-sell them. I have shot a gazzillion rounds of wolf 7.62x39, and never had a single misfire or problem.

Spikestrip · 04-28-2007, 05:32 AM

Thanks guys, it sounds like Range Snobbery, or simple lazieness. If I can't shoot my preferred ammo at this range, I'll go to the outdoor one where they don't care what "upper crust" ammo one feeds their baby...
I appreciate the help!

alan c. · 04-28-2007, 10:53 AM

My range has the same problem with CCI.
They don't sell the brass they reload themselves and sell to the customers.

fred · 04-28-2007, 08:21 PM

A year or more ago I read reports that Wolf 5.56 mm (aka .223 cal) when fired rapid fire could transfer some of the varnish from the exterior of the steel case to the very hot chamber of a semiautomatic rifle causing failure to extract. As I recall it was quite supposed to be difficult to remove from the chamber. The varnish is there to provide protection against rust.

Having said this, my son has used Wolf in his AR-15 with no problem, but he doesn't tend to shoot rapid fire and usually doesn't shoot more than about 20 at a time.

04-25-2007, 10:35 PM	#1
Spikestrip Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Southern "10 Day Wait" California Posts: 122	Wolf Ammo... Unsafe?!? Just got some Wolf 9x18 Makarov ammo in, and checked the rules of the local indoor shooting range; "NO WOLF AMMUNITION ALLOWED"! FIRING-LINE Indoor Shooting Ranges I called them to ask why (after placing a $100 order with J&G Sales for this ammo), and was told that, "it's unsafe; it goes off when it wants". Sounds fishy to me, not sure why they'd say that... Has anyone encountered this? Last edited by Spikestrip; 04-25-2007 at 11:08 PM.

04-25-2007, 11:22 PM	#4
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,522	Spikestrip, it's likely because it's both steel-cased and berdan-primed. Your range probably sells the cases after collecting them and they don't want to take the time to sort through to sort out berdan-primed cases. Same with if they just sell the brass as scrap metal, they don't want to have to sort out the steel cases. I've heard stories about other ranges doing it for this reason from other people on G&G. Edit: You should tell them to shove-it and that you're going to take your business elsewhere and that you're going to tell all your friends and shooting buddies not to shoot there. I read through their rules and it sounds like they're a bunch of gun-snobs. "18. RENTAL GUNS MUST BE USED WITH FIRING-LINE COPPER PLATED RELOADED AMMUNITION ONLY. 19. FIRING-LINE RELOADED BRASS MUST BE RETURNED TO COUNTER. YOU WILL BE CHARGED FOR MISSING BRASS. REMEMBER THE BRASS IS THE PROPERTY OF FIRING-LINE AND WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE RANGE." There's nothing wrong with requiring you use their ammo in their guns, but number 19 above is BS! You payed for the darn ammo, it's your's to do with as you like. Tell 'em to shove-it. __________________ Last edited by just_a_car; 04-25-2007 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Addition

04-25-2007, 11:42 PM	#5
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,670 Images: 2	Commiefornia Shooting Rules...Sound more on the side of Anti-gunners. A simple Magnet will pull out steel cases. Come on up to Alaska and shoot at my Range, anything you want your gun to digest is fine with me! Rangemaster Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-26-2007, 06:54 AM	#7
bigandrich44 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,013	Yeah it is BS. I mean, what if you accidently forget 10 cases? That sounds costly. Good thing I got private land..... __________________ http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1...eehobosig9.png

04-26-2007, 08:00 AM	#8
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Wolf going off whenever it wants is absolute nonsense. The opposite is true. Wolf's primers are hard and require a firm hammer strike. If anything, they wouldn't go off if a hammer spring was weak. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

04-25-2007, 11:04 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,670 Images: 2	I personally have fired thousands of rounds of Wolf ammo without a problem, so I don't have a clue...It is imported ammo and fairly good Military ammo as ammo goes. It never has hangfired, or mis-fired in any of my weapons.. I have had worse ammo, Turkish, portugese, and South American. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-25-2007, 11:19 PM	#3
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,157	I've shot quite a bit of Wolf in my .45 and SKS and never had a hiccup of any kind. Sounds kinda like gun snobbery to me....

04-26-2007, 10:10 AM	#9
Bravo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 1,897	Guys, it may not be because of the casings or primers or their actual "Safety". I recently purchased 100 rounds of 30 carbine wolf, and it was the most god awful ammo that I have ever shot. This is after shooting nearly 1000 rounds of wolf 7.62x39mm ammo that I absolutely loved. Besides not feeding in my M1 Carbine, the ammo threw out (literally lofted) smoke about 10 feet from the end of the barrel. In the rare case that I was able to fire 5 rounds in rapid succession, I was nearly unable to see my target after, due to a thick cloud of black smoke (I might as well have been shooting black powder). The smoke was also extremely toxic smelling. No gunpowder really smells good when burning, but this stuff gave off a stench very similar to that of a heavy duty cleaning bleach. I was able to smell the stuff in my nose days after shooting it. My gun also told the tale. It was extremely gummed up after shooting 50 rounds (and I use minimal oil only in key spots). Black crud was everywhere throughout the rifle. I would say that Wolf ammo is as safe as Winchester/Federal/Remington ammo, so for them to say that you can't use it because of accidental discharge is complete bull. If they were banning it from indoor range because of complaints from the fumes emitted, then I would definitely understand.

04-26-2007, 10:52 AM	#10
JoeLee Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North New York State. Posts: 1,241	Sounds like a bunch of baloney!If the range sells ammo $$$,I'll bet WOLF ammo is not one of them. NEVER KICK A SKUNK.

04-26-2007, 10:27 PM	#12
Zephri Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indianapolis, IN. "The city where nothing happens." Posts: 1,089 Blog Entries: 6	don't all indoor ranges have ventlation fans above the shooting line. I'm sure all ammo no matter what brand puts out alot of very bad gas that you probaly shoulde'nt breath in an enclosed area. __________________ "All rifles need a sharp pointy object on the end!" http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/zephri/

04-27-2007, 01:29 PM	#15
ruger22com Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mobile Alabama Posts: 723	The range only wants brass cassings left so they can re-sell them. I have shot a gazzillion rounds of wolf 7.62x39, and never had a single misfire or problem. __________________ www.CheapGunParts.com http://ruger22.com/art/banners/tiny.gif Home of the "YELLOW JACKET" Bolt Buffer and Takedown Bolts! Free Shipping & Lifetime Warranty!

04-28-2007, 05:32 AM	#16
Spikestrip Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Southern "10 Day Wait" California Posts: 122	Thanks guys, it sounds like Range Snobbery, or simple lazieness. If I can't shoot my preferred ammo at this range, I'll go to the outdoor one where they don't care what "upper crust" ammo one feeds their baby... I appreciate the help!

04-28-2007, 10:53 AM	#17
alan c. Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pasadena,Tejas - also known as Texas Posts: 3,767 Images: 15	My range has the same problem with CCI. They don't sell the brass they reload themselves and sell to the customers.

04-28-2007, 08:21 PM	#18
fred Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NC, USA Posts: 184	A year or more ago I read reports that Wolf 5.56 mm (aka .223 cal) when fired rapid fire could transfer some of the varnish from the exterior of the steel case to the very hot chamber of a semiautomatic rifle causing failure to extract. As I recall it was quite supposed to be difficult to remove from the chamber. The varnish is there to provide protection against rust. Having said this, my son has used Wolf in his AR-15 with no problem, but he doesn't tend to shoot rapid fire and usually doesn't shoot more than about 20 at a time.