Why The Gun Is Civilization

Oxford · 06-10-2007, 09:23 AM

My nephew, a Kansas State Trooper, sent me the following essay this morning. Thought it was well worth posting here.

Ox
-----

Forwarded By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Finally. . . A statement about guns that makes a lot of sense.

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and
force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of
either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding
under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those
two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact
through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social
interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is
the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use
reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your
threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon
that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger,
a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger,
and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys
with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical
strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a
defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad
force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more
civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm
makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course,
is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed
either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most
of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the
banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and
the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A
mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a
society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal
that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is
fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are
won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on
the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't
constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings
and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun
makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker
defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is
level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an
octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply
wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal
and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight,
but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means
that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm
afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the
actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the
actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the
equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

countrymama · 06-10-2007, 10:26 AM

amen.

ArkansasHunter · 06-10-2007, 11:07 AM

My mother is in the hospital and not expected to live much longer.
My brother, sister and I are takeing turns sitting with her.
At around 1 am saturday morning I had to go smoke a cigarett and the close'es exit was the emergentcy room exit and i had my car parked near there.
As I was exiting I was met by a gang of 8 blk teenagers that had been in a fight with a GAY gang, the gay gang cut one of them up real bad.
As I paused to look the gay gang pulled up and now I was in the middle of a bad situation.
Lucky for me here come three police and other than some serious filth comeing out of there mouth a brawl was avoided when the cops showed up. My son was one of the cops and he told me to get the He(( away from here which I did to my car to watch. ( And to help my baby if he was fidd'in to get hurt)
Now I don't mind tell'in yall it kinda scared me and too I had left my only pistol with my wife.

Every body MUST have the right to own and carrie a hand gun in this country...I was in the middle of a pack of crazied Animals defensless at a Big hospital.
So it doesnt matter where you go there will always be the likley hood you'll need the protection and comfort of knowing you have a firearm on you TODAY.

SilverRun · 06-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Great writing! Any idea who wrote it?

Be careful their AH. That would be an embarrassing way to go - killed by a gay gang!

just_a_car · 06-10-2007, 10:37 PM

Here's a drink to the idealized armed civilization envisioned by Jefferson.

.22guy · 06-10-2007, 11:40 PM

A gay gang in Arkansas? And I thought I had heard everything!

cubbieman · 06-11-2007, 12:16 AM

wait, a gay gang? gives a whole new meaning to the term "gang banger"

TexasT · 06-11-2007, 01:20 AM

This is a great essay. Glad you posted it.

mosineer · 06-11-2007, 01:55 AM

Great Ox, I printed copies for my Grandkids.
-----------------------------------------------
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security

ArkansasHunter · 06-11-2007, 03:46 AM

HEY .22guy I'd never seen or heard of them before until then. lol One of them I guess weighed 390 lbs 7 ft. tall and around 30 years old I swear ! And was wearing a thoug ( did I spell that right) The others with him looked to be 16 to 18 years old.
The other gang looked to be 16 to 25 years old and got there butts kicked
I honestly got concerned, but other than cussing they didn't get into a fight at the hosp.
I ask my son today about the big Homo and he said he wasn't a trouble maker but he was picked on by his race and normaly beat the liven crap out of people that picked on him and his harem.
He sure was a big ugly bastid dressed like a girl ! Gross Gross Gross.
Don't ever tell me that life style is normal...A.H

Oxford · 06-11-2007, 09:56 AM

I'm glad you all seemed to appreciate that essay. Sometimes I wonder if I'm alone in my thinking when I read something that totally makes sense. Wish I knew whom to give credit to for being it's author. It came to me without that information...but, regardless, it seemed so logical that it just had to be posted.

Ox

BryanP · 06-18-2007, 01:24 PM

For the record, this post was not written by a retired Marine. Apparently whoever took it from Marko Kloos' blog and started forwarding it around decided it didn't sound as good coming from someone with a "furrin" sounding name. He's a German immigrant, now a US citizen in good standing. The original post can be found here:

the munchkin wrangler.: why the gun is civilization.

bedlamite · 06-18-2007, 03:32 PM

The author is Marko Kloos

Lasse · 06-19-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford

I'm glad you all seemed to appreciate that essay. Sometimes I wonder if I'm alone in my thinking when I read something that totally makes sense. Wish I knew whom to give credit to for being it's author. It came to me without that information...but, regardless, it seemed so logical that it just had to be posted.

Ox

Here is the link to the author the munchkin wrangler.: why the gun is civilization.

Regards
Lasse

snuffysmith · 09-28-2007, 06:18 PM

AH, I know that's not funny--- but that's funny.LOL
I guess La(lower Arkansas) is getting like L.A.(Los Angles) more every day.
That's what you would call a free wake-up call for you. Glad it didn't cost you anything to learn it.

Watch out for that 300lb. tooth fairy!

Snuffy

Troy · 09-28-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxford

I'm glad you all seemed to appreciate that essay. Sometimes I wonder if I'm alone in my thinking when I read something that totally makes sense. Wish I knew whom to give credit to for being it's author. It came to me without that information...but, regardless, it seemed so logical that it just had to be posted.
Ox

and that's why it dont fly. it's logical.

Windwalker · 10-20-2007, 04:43 PM

Thanks Ox, this is one of the best posts I have read in a long time.

Dallas · 08-09-2008, 06:55 AM

Interesting article, thought I'd resurrect this so newer members can read it.

TXplt · 08-09-2008, 07:34 AM

Thanks ! First time I've seen it. Excellent post, Ox.

iflylow74 · 08-09-2008, 08:17 AM

Thats an awesome article Ox, and so very true!!

Its like someone once said; "God made man and Sam Colt made men equal."

06-10-2007, 09:23 AM	#1
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,023 Blog Entries: 4	Why The Gun Is Civilization My nephew, a Kansas State Trooper, sent me the following essay this morning. Thought it was well worth posting here. Ox ----- Forwarded By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) Finally. . . A statement about guns that makes a lot of sense. Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender. There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly. Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable. When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act. __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

06-10-2007, 10:26 AM	#2
countrymama Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: WI Posts: 147 Images: 10	amen. __________________ Why yes, I do shoot like a girl! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

06-10-2007, 10:37 PM	#5
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,522	Here's a drink to the idealized armed civilization envisioned by Jefferson. __________________

06-11-2007, 09:56 AM	#11
Oxford Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gladstone, Missouri Posts: 13,023 Blog Entries: 4	I'm glad you all seemed to appreciate that essay. Sometimes I wonder if I'm alone in my thinking when I read something that totally makes sense. Wish I knew whom to give credit to for being it's author. It came to me without that information...but, regardless, it seemed so logical that it just had to be posted. Ox __________________ "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right".

09-28-2007, 06:18 PM	#15
snuffysmith Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 565	AH, I know that's not funny--- but that's funny.LOL I guess La(lower Arkansas) is getting like L.A.(Los Angles) more every day. That's what you would call a free wake-up call for you. Glad it didn't cost you anything to learn it. Watch out for that 300lb. tooth fairy! Snuffy __________________ time & weather changes everything

06-10-2007, 11:07 AM	#3
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,709	My mother is in the hospital and not expected to live much longer. My brother, sister and I are takeing turns sitting with her. At around 1 am saturday morning I had to go smoke a cigarett and the close'es exit was the emergentcy room exit and i had my car parked near there. As I was exiting I was met by a gang of 8 blk teenagers that had been in a fight with a GAY gang, the gay gang cut one of them up real bad. As I paused to look the gay gang pulled up and now I was in the middle of a bad situation. Lucky for me here come three police and other than some serious filth comeing out of there mouth a brawl was avoided when the cops showed up. My son was one of the cops and he told me to get the He(( away from here which I did to my car to watch. ( And to help my baby if he was fidd'in to get hurt) Now I don't mind tell'in yall it kinda scared me and too I had left my only pistol with my wife. Every body MUST have the right to own and carrie a hand gun in this country...I was in the middle of a pack of crazied Animals defensless at a Big hospital. So it doesnt matter where you go there will always be the likley hood you'll need the protection and comfort of knowing you have a firearm on you TODAY.

06-10-2007, 10:10 PM	#4
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,661	Great writing! Any idea who wrote it? Be careful their AH. That would be an embarrassing way to go - killed by a gay gang!

06-10-2007, 11:40 PM	#6
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,157	A gay gang in Arkansas? And I thought I had heard everything!

06-11-2007, 12:16 AM	#7
cubbieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 1,481	wait, a gay gang? gives a whole new meaning to the term "gang banger"

06-11-2007, 01:20 AM	#8
TexasT Mrs. HMFIC Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Everywhere you want to be. Posts: 4,217 Blog Entries: 16	This is a great essay. Glad you posted it.

06-11-2007, 01:55 AM	#9
mosineer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 1,299	Great Ox, I printed copies for my Grandkids. ----------------------------------------------- Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security

06-11-2007, 03:46 AM	#10
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,709	HEY .22guy I'd never seen or heard of them before until then. lol One of them I guess weighed 390 lbs 7 ft. tall and around 30 years old I swear ! And was wearing a thoug ( did I spell that right) The others with him looked to be 16 to 18 years old. The other gang looked to be 16 to 25 years old and got there butts kicked I honestly got concerned, but other than cussing they didn't get into a fight at the hosp. I ask my son today about the big Homo and he said he wasn't a trouble maker but he was picked on by his race and normaly beat the liven crap out of people that picked on him and his harem. He sure was a big ugly bastid dressed like a girl ! Gross Gross Gross. Don't ever tell me that life style is normal...A.H

06-18-2007, 01:24 PM	#12
BryanP Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1	For the record, this post was not written by a retired Marine. Apparently whoever took it from Marko Kloos' blog and started forwarding it around decided it didn't sound as good coming from someone with a "furrin" sounding name. He's a German immigrant, now a US citizen in good standing. The original post can be found here: the munchkin wrangler.: why the gun is civilization.

06-18-2007, 03:32 PM	#13
bedlamite Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1	The author is Marko Kloos

10-20-2007, 04:43 PM	#17
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,589	Thanks Ox, this is one of the best posts I have read in a long time.

08-09-2008, 06:55 AM	#18
Dallas PUKHA DAWG Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, just outside of Washington D.C. Posts: 3,595	Interesting article, thought I'd resurrect this so newer members can read it. __________________ Those who forget History are condemed to repeat it.

08-09-2008, 07:34 AM	#19
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,834 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Thanks ! First time I've seen it. Excellent post, Ox. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

08-09-2008, 08:17 AM	#20
iflylow74 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Arkansaw Posts: 1,032 Blog Entries: 11	Thats an awesome article Ox, and so very true!! Its like someone once said; "God made man and Sam Colt made men equal." __________________ Just because you can't win, doesn't mean you shouldn't fight. -me