Snake Vaccine

Upland Idaho · 06-07-2007, 12:20 PM

Here is a link posted on a forum in AZ...just passing on the info and the questions answered.

http://www.redrockbiologics.com/FAQ.html

Should my dog be vaccinated?

What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against?

How well does this vaccine work?

How long does protection last? How often should my dog be vaccinated?

How safe is this vaccine? Are there any side effects?

What should I do if my vaccinated dog is bitten by a rattlesnake?

Can dogs who have already been bitten by a rattlesnake be vaccinated?

How old should a puppy be before being vaccinated? Can elderly dogs be vaccinated?

Can I use this vaccine for my cat?

Can I use this vaccine for my horse?

Where can I get the vaccine?

How much does the vaccine cost?

Upland Idaho · 06-11-2007, 08:58 PM

After posting this information on numerous forums and discussions with professionals I still have not heard any negatives of giving your dog this vaccine...anyone here have any personal experience or opinions?

Dookiebutt · 06-14-2007, 06:43 AM

If I lived or hunted in high risk areas, I would do it after I spoke to my vet. My dogs would be all over a snake. If we lived in the south, a snikebite woud be probable.

troy2000 · 06-27-2007, 08:30 PM

My beagles haven't rousted any snakes yet, but this is certainly rattlesnake country. I've been thinking about vaccinating them, giving them some anti-snake training, or both.

Big Dog · 06-28-2007, 04:06 AM

My sister nearly lost a dog to a rattler many years back. Had she not been off work that day, and happened to see the pooch piled up agaist the fence - the dog would've died. Being a largish dog, she needed a good dose of antivennin to bring her back. Heaven help someone if a horse gets pooped! It's done by the animals weight.
A vaccine could be a really good idea, though we seldom see rattlers or cottonmouths much anymore.

Burke · 07-10-2007, 10:30 AM

I am in the desert about 2x a week either hunting for rocks or shooting.

I have encountered and killed over 20 rattlers in my 32 odd years of desert exploration and appreciation.
I used to eat them but not anymore..
I have only been "attacked" once. That was my fault, I was out right at sunset/dusk when the snakes come out to warm themselves.

The snake tried to bite my walking stick...it soon got the sharp end of that end.
Here in AZ. for rattlesnake bites the "home remedy" for a snake bite on a dog is a handful of Benedryl. I have seen a dog come back from the brink of death throught the Benadryl infusion.

My dogs are rattlesnake trained..its only a 8 hour class over 2 days and it really works...
Still for when myself and my son go hiking, they are my first line of defense.
I would much rather them take a hit then my boy.

Also the snake and its age also have alot to do with the amount of venom released.
A young snake will inject you with every drop he has, whereas a older snake will conserve his venom and strike quick and retract.

Still the .22 Jennings has snake shot in it every time we're out.

ezearln · 07-10-2007, 12:01 PM

Fried rattler makes for an excellent meal, with creamed corn and a side of borracho beans and cornbread um um um tasty!

Burke · 07-21-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearln

Fried rattler makes for an excellent meal, with creamed corn and a side of borracho beans and cornbread um um um tasty!

ROFL, i just read that post..
MAn I have never had any fixins to go along with my Desert food...
I have never been able to bring anything home I usually eat it in the wild..

I have a Dutch oven but I only use that for week long camping trips.

sounds tasty though..

Coeloptera · 08-13-2007, 06:47 PM

Fascinating stuff. We used to keep reptiles so I know a few things, but this rattlesnake vaccine is new on me.

Let's see here...not effective on Mojave rattlers, coral snakes, or water moccasins. This tells me that the vaccine likely doesn't work on snakes with a neurotoxic component to their venom, as opposed to the hemotoxins of most rattlers. Interestingly, the development of the neurotoxin in Mojave rattlers in addition to the hemotoxin is a relatively new trait, evolutionarily speaking. Mojaves are straight-up bad news.

Effectiveness falls off in 6 months...so I'm guessing that the vaccine induces the body to produce antibodies that bind to the hemotoxin (deactivating it) before it can begin to destroy blood cells and other tissues. Likely the initial injection induces antibody formation with no additional "upkeep" after the initial dose unless boosters induce more antibody formation. Nice work on Red Rock's part, there.

Now I was a mortician for a few years, so I've had my share of courses and experience in biochem, specifically blood chemistry. And from checking online and hitting some of my old textbooks, I can't see any reason this vaccine should be at all potentially harmful to an animal.

Unlike vaccines for certain diseases, this vaccine should never induce symptoms of the venom's effects since we're dealing with a vaccine that doesn't need to induce production of additional immune cells or chemicals beyond the chemicals that bond to the hemotoxin to deactivate it. That's an advantage there, since snake venom doesn't reproduce inside your body like virii or bacteria. I see they state anaphylaxis may occur in about 2 cases per million...that's total "lightning bolt" territory.

I can't see why anyone who's concerned about their dog wouldn't get them dosed. Now...do they have a human version?

- Coeloptera

troy2000 · 08-19-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

Interestingly, the development of the neurotoxin in Mojave rattlers in addition to the hemotoxin is a relatively new trait, evolutionarily speaking. Mojaves are straight-up bad news.Coeloptera

Twice in the last couple of years, people have been bitten in this area by Pacific Diamondbacks, and the bites turned out to be neurotoxic. The first time was just a visual identification, but the second time the snake was caught or killed, and shipped off to be checked out.

I haven't heard any more about it, but the thought of full-size rattlers with the same venom as the relatively small Mojave Green is a a chilling thought. My best guess is that there's some interbreeding going on.

You're right about Mojave Greens being bad news. We have them on my property in Arizona, and they're not only toxic but extremely aggressive. They'll strike, pull their body up toward a person and strike again, and keep coming until they're dead or you completely bail.

jimiw · 08-24-2007, 09:26 PM

Ive eaten rattlesnake once and although it tasted good it was a lot like trying to eat a chicken neck. The meat you got wasnt worth the effort. In my opinion. Jimi

Johnny_Revolver · 08-24-2007, 11:32 PM

I live in the same country as the top 7 or whatever deadliest snakes in the world and I have never heard of snake vaccine, only anti venine which is used after the fact.

ArkansasHunter · 08-25-2007, 12:14 AM

Troy2000 Them Mojave Greens snakes sounds like what Water Mococins do !

jimiw · 08-25-2007, 08:45 AM

I remember them water mocosins from my days growing up in Kansas. Nasty attitude!!! Jimi

rookie1129 · 09-05-2007, 03:27 PM

If your in rattlr country I would get the vaccine. Here in south LA we have a few ratlrs but mostly cotton mouth and copperhead which usually wont kill a dog of 50lb or more. Usually a rattlr will. I have never seen a rattle snake in the woods so I dont worry much. Mostly duck huntin anyway. But you need to carry some benedrly with you,and if your dog gets bit the only thing you can do is give the benedrly and get to a vet.

Ezearln: That's a big 10:4 on the rattlesnake viddles.

ezearln · 09-05-2007, 05:35 PM

Now I may be off base here but not long ago on "Animal Planet" they had themselves a story about a dog that defended it's owner from a rattler, dog got bit owner didn't as I recall the vet in the piece said that dogs have some limited resistance to rattler venom and often an antihistimine will alleviate most symptoms. However in the culinary part of this post. If you are intentionally hunting rattlers for the pot you need to restrict your harvest to those 5' and over. a mature rattler has a thick body with substantial muscle and makes a fine meal. Too often the meat is excessively overcooked making it unfit for a meal. Fact is in a survival situation reptiles may be eaten without cooking as can most fish and amphibians. Not that it would be my first choice. LOL

bleegeorge · 07-06-2008, 10:11 PM

We have had our dogs vaccinated for a couple of years and now realize that that the adverse reactions are not worth it. On two occasons our dogs have become severly ill to the point of needing blood transfusions. The vet never alerted us the possible effets and we will never use this on our dogs again.

Farmer · 07-07-2008, 05:55 AM

Hi,

In aus, the usual system of a pressure bandage is applied and the animal is rushed to the vet, but...........

The biggest killer of a dog treated for snakebite is tetinus (lockjaw) and a big dose of penecillin is required, so if you get then vacinated, get its tetinus shots updated too.

Mike Franklin · 07-07-2008, 06:22 AM

I was bitten on the left index finger many years ago. That antivenin was, to say the least, uncomfortable. The experience was NOT like in the movies. 4 days intensive care, one day in a ward. It took another month to get everything closed up. They gave me 2 surgeries. One to keep my hand from swiveling up, the second to remove dead tissue.
I go way out of my way to kill a Rattler now. Killed a 4 footer last week. And yes I eat'm with much gusto!

06-07-2007, 12:20 PM	#1
Upland Idaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boise Posts: 44 Trader Rating: (0)	Snake Vaccine Here is a link posted on a forum in AZ...just passing on the info and the questions answered. http://www.redrockbiologics.com/FAQ.html Should my dog be vaccinated? What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against? How well does this vaccine work? How long does protection last? How often should my dog be vaccinated? How safe is this vaccine? Are there any side effects? What should I do if my vaccinated dog is bitten by a rattlesnake? Can dogs who have already been bitten by a rattlesnake be vaccinated? How old should a puppy be before being vaccinated? Can elderly dogs be vaccinated? Can I use this vaccine for my cat? Can I use this vaccine for my horse? Where can I get the vaccine? How much does the vaccine cost?

06-27-2007, 08:30 PM	#4
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,140 Trader Rating: (0)	My beagles haven't rousted any snakes yet, but this is certainly rattlesnake country. I've been thinking about vaccinating them, giving them some anti-snake training, or both. __________________ If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. -Anatole France

06-28-2007, 04:06 AM	#5
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,071 Trader Rating: (0)	My sister nearly lost a dog to a rattler many years back. Had she not been off work that day, and happened to see the pooch piled up agaist the fence - the dog would've died. Being a largish dog, she needed a good dose of antivennin to bring her back. Heaven help someone if a horse gets pooped! It's done by the animals weight. A vaccine could be a really good idea, though we seldom see rattlers or cottonmouths much anymore. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

07-10-2007, 10:30 AM	#6
Burke Ahh..Cordite. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gun City, Arizona Posts: 485 Trader Rating: (0)	rattlers and benedryl I am in the desert about 2x a week either hunting for rocks or shooting. I have encountered and killed over 20 rattlers in my 32 odd years of desert exploration and appreciation. I used to eat them but not anymore.. I have only been "attacked" once. That was my fault, I was out right at sunset/dusk when the snakes come out to warm themselves. The snake tried to bite my walking stick...it soon got the sharp end of that end. Here in AZ. for rattlesnake bites the "home remedy" for a snake bite on a dog is a handful of Benedryl. I have seen a dog come back from the brink of death throught the Benadryl infusion. My dogs are rattlesnake trained..its only a 8 hour class over 2 days and it really works... Still for when myself and my son go hiking, they are my first line of defense. I would much rather them take a hit then my boy. Also the snake and its age also have alot to do with the amount of venom released. A young snake will inject you with every drop he has, whereas a older snake will conserve his venom and strike quick and retract. Still the .22 Jennings has snake shot in it every time we're out.

07-10-2007, 12:01 PM	#7
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,178 Trader Rating: (0)	Fried rattler makes for an excellent meal, with creamed corn and a side of borracho beans and cornbread um um um tasty! __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

06-11-2007, 08:58 PM	#2
Upland Idaho Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boise Posts: 44 Trader Rating: (0)	After posting this information on numerous forums and discussions with professionals I still have not heard any negatives of giving your dog this vaccine...anyone here have any personal experience or opinions?

06-14-2007, 06:43 AM	#3
Dookiebutt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,027 Trader Rating: (0)	If I lived or hunted in high risk areas, I would do it after I spoke to my vet. My dogs would be all over a snake. If we lived in the south, a snikebite woud be probable.

08-13-2007, 06:47 PM	#9
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,562 Trader Rating: (0)	Fascinating stuff. We used to keep reptiles so I know a few things, but this rattlesnake vaccine is new on me. Let's see here...not effective on Mojave rattlers, coral snakes, or water moccasins. This tells me that the vaccine likely doesn't work on snakes with a neurotoxic component to their venom, as opposed to the hemotoxins of most rattlers. Interestingly, the development of the neurotoxin in Mojave rattlers in addition to the hemotoxin is a relatively new trait, evolutionarily speaking. Mojaves are straight-up bad news. Effectiveness falls off in 6 months...so I'm guessing that the vaccine induces the body to produce antibodies that bind to the hemotoxin (deactivating it) before it can begin to destroy blood cells and other tissues. Likely the initial injection induces antibody formation with no additional "upkeep" after the initial dose unless boosters induce more antibody formation. Nice work on Red Rock's part, there. Now I was a mortician for a few years, so I've had my share of courses and experience in biochem, specifically blood chemistry. And from checking online and hitting some of my old textbooks, I can't see any reason this vaccine should be at all potentially harmful to an animal. Unlike vaccines for certain diseases, this vaccine should never induce symptoms of the venom's effects since we're dealing with a vaccine that doesn't need to induce production of additional immune cells or chemicals beyond the chemicals that bond to the hemotoxin to deactivate it. That's an advantage there, since snake venom doesn't reproduce inside your body like virii or bacteria. I see they state anaphylaxis may occur in about 2 cases per million...that's total "lightning bolt" territory. I can't see why anyone who's concerned about their dog wouldn't get them dosed. Now...do they have a human version? - Coeloptera

08-24-2007, 09:26 PM	#11
jimiw Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0)	Ive eaten rattlesnake once and although it tasted good it was a lot like trying to eat a chicken neck. The meat you got wasnt worth the effort. In my opinion. Jimi

08-24-2007, 11:32 PM	#12
Johnny_Revolver Gun Liker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 1,200 Trader Rating: (0)	I live in the same country as the top 7 or whatever deadliest snakes in the world and I have never heard of snake vaccine, only anti venine which is used after the fact. __________________ It`s a good life, provided you don`t weaken.

08-25-2007, 12:14 AM	#13
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,531 Trader Rating: (0)	Troy2000 Them Mojave Greens snakes sounds like what Water Mococins do !

08-25-2007, 08:45 AM	#14
jimiw Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0)	I remember them water mocosins from my days growing up in Kansas. Nasty attitude!!! Jimi

09-05-2007, 03:27 PM	#15
rookie1129 Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: south Louisiana Posts: 50 Trader Rating: (0)	If your in rattlr country I would get the vaccine. Here in south LA we have a few ratlrs but mostly cotton mouth and copperhead which usually wont kill a dog of 50lb or more. Usually a rattlr will. I have never seen a rattle snake in the woods so I dont worry much. Mostly duck huntin anyway. But you need to carry some benedrly with you,and if your dog gets bit the only thing you can do is give the benedrly and get to a vet. Ezearln: That's a big 10:4 on the rattlesnake viddles.

09-05-2007, 05:35 PM	#16
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,178 Trader Rating: (0)	Now I may be off base here but not long ago on "Animal Planet" they had themselves a story about a dog that defended it's owner from a rattler, dog got bit owner didn't as I recall the vet in the piece said that dogs have some limited resistance to rattler venom and often an antihistimine will alleviate most symptoms. However in the culinary part of this post. If you are intentionally hunting rattlers for the pot you need to restrict your harvest to those 5' and over. a mature rattler has a thick body with substantial muscle and makes a fine meal. Too often the meat is excessively overcooked making it unfit for a meal. Fact is in a survival situation reptiles may be eaten without cooking as can most fish and amphibians. Not that it would be my first choice. LOL __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

07-06-2008, 10:11 PM	#17
bleegeorge Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1 Trader Rating: (0)	snake vaccine is possibly lethal We have had our dogs vaccinated for a couple of years and now realize that that the adverse reactions are not worth it. On two occasons our dogs have become severly ill to the point of needing blood transfusions. The vet never alerted us the possible effets and we will never use this on our dogs again.

07-07-2008, 05:55 AM	#18
Farmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Limbri NSW Au Posts: 294 Trader Rating: (0)	Hi, In aus, the usual system of a pressure bandage is applied and the animal is rushed to the vet, but........... The biggest killer of a dog treated for snakebite is tetinus (lockjaw) and a big dose of penecillin is required, so if you get then vacinated, get its tetinus shots updated too. __________________ Cheers, Rob

07-07-2008, 06:22 AM	#19
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,277 Trader Rating: (0)	I was bitten on the left index finger many years ago. That antivenin was, to say the least, uncomfortable. The experience was NOT like in the movies. 4 days intensive care, one day in a ward. It took another month to get everything closed up. They gave me 2 surgeries. One to keep my hand from swiveling up, the second to remove dead tissue. I go way out of my way to kill a Rattler now. Killed a 4 footer last week. And yes I eat'm with much gusto! __________________ Aim real good we're nearly out of ammo.