Pardon my ignorance but...

MonsterZero · 10-30-2007, 10:58 AM

Why have hunters become interested in muzzle-loading weapons 200 years after the technology was phased out by the bolt-action rifle? I can think of nothing but disadvantages of muzzle-loading but correct me if I'm wrong.

Is it for reasons of nostalgia? So the hunter can imagine he's a 18-century musketeer?

toolman · 10-30-2007, 11:14 AM

I think most just like the challenge of hunting with "old" technology, even though front-stuffers have improved dramatically over the years. Others hunt with them due to long-gun restrictions in their state, and still others, like the fact that most states have a separate black-powder season that starts earlier than the regular rifle season. I know a few guys that like this because the deer aren't spooked yet and they get to start hunting at the same time as the archery guys.

Idaho Dave · 10-30-2007, 11:23 AM

Many modern, inline muzzle loaders are actually very acurate and have ballistics that would impress you. Even traditional style muzzle loading rifles are very affective for hunting at the ranges for which they are designed. but like old cars, bow hunting and antiques I think there is a certain draw to them. I use mine in part due to the nostalgia and it adds an element to the hunt that requires closer shooting, careful shot placement and encourages stalking skills. besides it is just plain fun and gives insight to what the rugged individuals that used to live and die by thier firearms went through. Anyway, dont under estimate them just because they are muzzle loaders I own a 50 and 58 caliber and when hunting use conical, solid lead bullets that weigh in the 300 to 400 grain range. Even though they arent as fast at 100 yards or less they do a lot of damage and it is not that hard to make ethical kills. Oh and that is just my opinion I am sure others will dissagree adimately. By the way a musket and a muzzle loading rifle are not the same thing. A musket has a smooth bore and thus is far less accurate then the rifled barrel.

samuel · 10-30-2007, 01:12 PM

I was around when special hunts came out for ML's.The biggest thing was hunters had about 1 1/2 to 2 times more time to hunt with the special season added to modern gun season.In short time the front stuffers had shown they could take deer and it wasnt long and the ML craze was off and running.They just kept improving on the ML's and now there isnt too much difference in them and a cartridge singleshot and a ML.About 5seconds in skilled hands. The history of muskets is cloudy but definitly started as a smoothbore that fired stones until they learned to make balls with lead.The earliest mention of "MUSKET" was the chinese using them in war in the 14th century.They continued as muskets into the 17th century when they discovered a flaw in a barrel could make a ball fly straighter.Then they found a cloth patch could seal gasses and make the ball fly much farther.They developed the miniball which did away with patches and followed riflings.Thus was born the "RIFLED MUSKET".Later they called the long barreled firearms musket and the short ones carbines even in cartridge firearms. The name "MUSKET is believed to come from the French word Mousquette,which means Sparrowhawk. Sorry about getting carried away. sam.

ArkansasHunter · 10-30-2007, 01:25 PM

I thought Samuel was gonna say he was around when Muskets were in use...LMAO !
Monster Zero I don't Muzzeload hunt because I don't own a Muzzeloader but before long I will because for the reasons toolman, IdahoDave and Samuel statted in there post.
By the way M-Z these 3 fellers are excellent contributers to Gun and Game.
I wish I knew just half of what they know...A.H

.22guy · 10-30-2007, 02:27 PM

Just because their fun. I don't know if I would hunt with it though. A big part of it is "because I can".

Apollyon67 · 10-30-2007, 07:13 PM

Black powder is fun to cap off. The smoke and flame offer a delight to the senses. Firing a smoke pole at game can bring a person back to the days of yore. Learning the basics of black powder is a good way to learn the history of civilization.

BattleRifleG3 · 10-30-2007, 08:51 PM

I wouldn't call it nostalgia as much as just wanting to appreciate what people had to go through in older times. Experiencing history isn't just about fun - it's about teaching yourself something of value. Sort of like eating something that isn't sweet but is good for you.

Cyrille · 10-30-2007, 09:18 PM

When I started with muzzle loaders back in the '70s There were only a few available, the "cheap" and the "true." A C.V.A. Kentucky Rifle was the first I owned and a darn good shooter it is. I won more than one match with in when I was into the "buckskinner" phase of my life.

killer · 10-30-2007, 10:56 PM

I watched the boys for several years at my gun club but I had no interest.

Finally one day I reluctantly fired one a few times and then he made me load it myself with instruction.

There was just something about ramming that patch and ball down that got me hooked.

ArkansasHunter · 10-31-2007, 12:07 AM

killer I wished we didn't have the high tech muzzeloaders we have today. It seems like it would be more fun with the type you have in your hands. Just my thoughts...A.h

Aarrgghh!! · 10-31-2007, 12:43 AM

I have a T/C Omega .50 cal....It's great.

It's like having several guns in one, with its versatility. Accurate, with fast twist rifeling. No powder measuring...powder comes in caliber size "pellets", in diff. grain ammounts. And the modern bullets...I have .50 cal bore size bullets that range in weight from 223-480... so a big choice in ballistics. With a magnum load of 150 grains, I have a killing range of 300 yards if I know my load well enough. And the stopping/dropping power is awesome.
If I want to hunt smaller game or add a little range, I can fire .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal sabbot.

I can hunt on government managed land...some of which are over 35,000 acres in texas, while centerfire rifles are illegal the entire hunting season.

There really is'nt that much of a disadvantage....unless you need that second shot...

toolman · 10-31-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarrgghh!!

I have a T/C Omega .50 cal....It's great.
It's like having several guns in one, with its versatility. Accurate, with fast twist rifeling. No powder measuring...powder comes in caliber size "pellets", in diff. grain ammounts. And the modern bullets...I have .50 cal bore size bullets that range in weight from 223-480... so a big choice in ballistics. With a magnum load of 150 grains, I have a killing range of 300 yards if I know my load well enough. And the stopping/dropping power is awesome.
If I want to hunt smaller game or add a little range, I can fire .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal sabbot.
I can hunt on government managed land...some of which are over 35,000 acres in texas, while centerfire rifles are illegal the entire hunting season.
There really is'nt that much of a disadvantage....unless you need that second shot...

Hey Guy, Welcome to G&G! just curious, what part of Tx. do you hunt in?

Aarrgghh!! · 10-31-2007, 12:58 AM

Thanks,,,I hunt In north TX... LBJ National Grasslands...or down in Davey Crocket National Forest. Also on a friend's land around Wacco. So really, all over...lol

Idaho Dave · 10-31-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

killer I wished we didn't have the high tech muzzeloaders we have today. It seems like it would be more fun with the type you have in your hands. Just my thoughts...A.h

AH a lot of people agree with you. In fact the fish and game in my state dose so much that during muzzle loader hunts you have to use a traditional sidelock with percusion or flint that has only open sights firing only patched balls or solid lead conicals no jacketed sabots are allowed. Made a lot of folks mad but I kinda like it that way.
I built my first muzzle loader several years ago from a kentuky long rifle kit from Traditions. blued the barrel myself, assembled the gun from a bag of parts and stained it honey color. it turned out great and has been used to kill lots of game animals that is the wife in my avitar holding it. here is another pic from the same hunt just this year
po.JPG
since building it I have purchased 2 more premade (one for my boy) and have put together 2 pistol kits and a cap and ball revlover kit. any of you guys get bored in the winter I highly recomend you get one of the kits it gives you something fun to tinker with as well as helps provide a lot of inside info on the workings of these old guns. This winter I am going to get a flint lock kit and put it together.

BattleRifleG3 · 10-31-2007, 03:59 PM

I do wish more muzzleloaders were made on the historical patterns. Would bring down the prices a little for re-enactors.

trapfreek · 10-31-2007, 05:59 PM

One of the reasons I use a muzzle loader is to extend my hunting season a couple of weeks. The other reason is that it is deadly accurate.

billy · 10-31-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarrgghh!!

Thanks,,,I hunt In north TX... LBJ National Grasslands...or down in Davey Crocket National Forest. Also on a friend's land around Wacco. So really, all over...lol

well then ........
you need a davy crocket gun!

UrbinDruid · 11-11-2007, 04:30 PM

I would just like to put in my 2 cents about this issue being that i feel that muzzle loaders say alot about the individual who uses them. I am somwhat of a peace monger hippie that feels like handguns and automatic and semi automatic rifles primarly serve the purpose of killing people. Now i am not condoning people who use them to hunt or target shoot because i will admit they are quite fun. but for me muzzle loading is a way to go because it says that you only need one shot therefore you only get one shot. i guess i feel that if you cant down a deer with one shot, you probably should spend some more time at the range before going out. i recently bought a 54 cal CVA hawken rifle which is what my first post was about, and i feel it represents me as an individual, and provided i get the kinks out of it i hope to go hunting with it this year. my other arsenal includes a 1897 bolt action springfield 22. and a 12 gauge break action. having shot both of them countless times along with many other firearms i feel that muzzle loading is the way to go. thats all the jibberish i have to say on this issue.

BattleRifleG3 · 11-13-2007, 04:22 PM

Being able to own and enjoy firearms that have little current military significance is an indication that we haven't seen a real war on our home soil for quite some time.

Why? Because we also have militarily capable arms.

The same is true of huge gun collections. When you have the opportunity to appreciate many different kinds of guns, it generally means you aren't too busy shooting and reloading magazines.

10-30-2007, 10:58 AM	#1
MonsterZero Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 9	Pardon my ignorance but... Why have hunters become interested in muzzle-loading weapons 200 years after the technology was phased out by the bolt-action rifle? I can think of nothing but disadvantages of muzzle-loading but correct me if I'm wrong. Is it for reasons of nostalgia? So the hunter can imagine he's a 18-century musketeer?

10-30-2007, 11:14 AM	#2
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,582 Blog Entries: 22	I think most just like the challenge of hunting with "old" technology, even though front-stuffers have improved dramatically over the years. Others hunt with them due to long-gun restrictions in their state, and still others, like the fact that most states have a separate black-powder season that starts earlier than the regular rifle season. I know a few guys that like this because the deer aren't spooked yet and they get to start hunting at the same time as the archery guys. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

10-30-2007, 11:23 AM	#3
Idaho Dave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 535	Many modern, inline muzzle loaders are actually very acurate and have ballistics that would impress you. Even traditional style muzzle loading rifles are very affective for hunting at the ranges for which they are designed. but like old cars, bow hunting and antiques I think there is a certain draw to them. I use mine in part due to the nostalgia and it adds an element to the hunt that requires closer shooting, careful shot placement and encourages stalking skills. besides it is just plain fun and gives insight to what the rugged individuals that used to live and die by thier firearms went through. Anyway, dont under estimate them just because they are muzzle loaders I own a 50 and 58 caliber and when hunting use conical, solid lead bullets that weigh in the 300 to 400 grain range. Even though they arent as fast at 100 yards or less they do a lot of damage and it is not that hard to make ethical kills. Oh and that is just my opinion I am sure others will dissagree adimately. By the way a musket and a muzzle loading rifle are not the same thing. A musket has a smooth bore and thus is far less accurate then the rifled barrel. __________________ Living the life

10-30-2007, 01:12 PM	#4
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,087	I was around when special hunts came out for ML's.The biggest thing was hunters had about 1 1/2 to 2 times more time to hunt with the special season added to modern gun season.In short time the front stuffers had shown they could take deer and it wasnt long and the ML craze was off and running.They just kept improving on the ML's and now there isnt too much difference in them and a cartridge singleshot and a ML.About 5seconds in skilled hands. The history of muskets is cloudy but definitly started as a smoothbore that fired stones until they learned to make balls with lead.The earliest mention of "MUSKET" was the chinese using them in war in the 14th century.They continued as muskets into the 17th century when they discovered a flaw in a barrel could make a ball fly straighter.Then they found a cloth patch could seal gasses and make the ball fly much farther.They developed the miniball which did away with patches and followed riflings.Thus was born the "RIFLED MUSKET".Later they called the long barreled firearms musket and the short ones carbines even in cartridge firearms. The name "MUSKET is believed to come from the French word Mousquette,which means Sparrowhawk. Sorry about getting carried away. sam. Last edited by samuel; 10-30-2007 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

10-30-2007, 02:27 PM	#6
.22guy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,163	Just because their fun. I don't know if I would hunt with it though. A big part of it is "because I can". __________________ Guns: they are like baseball cards except they are cool and you can kill things with em. -Billy

10-30-2007, 01:25 PM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	I thought Samuel was gonna say he was around when Muskets were in use...LMAO ! Monster Zero I don't Muzzeload hunt because I don't own a Muzzeloader but before long I will because for the reasons toolman, IdahoDave and Samuel statted in there post. By the way M-Z these 3 fellers are excellent contributers to Gun and Game. I wish I knew just half of what they know...A.H

10-30-2007, 07:13 PM	#7
Apollyon67 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 2,235 Images: 17	Black powder is fun to cap off. The smoke and flame offer a delight to the senses. Firing a smoke pole at game can bring a person back to the days of yore. Learning the basics of black powder is a good way to learn the history of civilization. __________________ "To err is human, to repent divine; to persist devilish." Ben Franklin

10-30-2007, 08:51 PM	#8
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	I wouldn't call it nostalgia as much as just wanting to appreciate what people had to go through in older times. Experiencing history isn't just about fun - it's about teaching yourself something of value. Sort of like eating something that isn't sweet but is good for you. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

10-30-2007, 09:18 PM	#9
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,853	When I started with muzzle loaders back in the '70s There were only a few available, the "cheap" and the "true." A C.V.A. Kentucky Rifle was the first I owned and a darn good shooter it is. I won more than one match with in when I was into the "buckskinner" phase of my life.

10-30-2007, 10:56 PM	#10
killer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the rat race Posts: 905 Images: 6	I watched the boys for several years at my gun club but I had no interest. Finally one day I reluctantly fired one a few times and then he made me load it myself with instruction. There was just something about ramming that patch and ball down that got me hooked. __________________ "Yeee Hawww...I'm a cowboy on an iron horse." Killer's cabin: http://buckmountainchateau.com/

10-31-2007, 12:07 AM	#11
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,722	killer I wished we didn't have the high tech muzzeloaders we have today. It seems like it would be more fun with the type you have in your hands. Just my thoughts...A.h

10-31-2007, 12:43 AM	#12
Aarrgghh!! Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: watery grave Posts: 30	I have a T/C Omega .50 cal....It's great. It's like having several guns in one, with its versatility. Accurate, with fast twist rifeling. No powder measuring...powder comes in caliber size "pellets", in diff. grain ammounts. And the modern bullets...I have .50 cal bore size bullets that range in weight from 223-480... so a big choice in ballistics. With a magnum load of 150 grains, I have a killing range of 300 yards if I know my load well enough. And the stopping/dropping power is awesome. If I want to hunt smaller game or add a little range, I can fire .45 cal bullets in a .50 cal sabbot. I can hunt on government managed land...some of which are over 35,000 acres in texas, while centerfire rifles are illegal the entire hunting season. There really is'nt that much of a disadvantage....unless you need that second shot...

10-31-2007, 12:58 AM	#14
Aarrgghh!! Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: watery grave Posts: 30	Thanks,,,I hunt In north TX... LBJ National Grasslands...or down in Davey Crocket National Forest. Also on a friend's land around Wacco. So really, all over...lol Last edited by Aarrgghh!!; 10-31-2007 at 01:03 AM.

10-31-2007, 03:59 PM	#16
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	I do wish more muzzleloaders were made on the historical patterns. Would bring down the prices a little for re-enactors. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf

10-31-2007, 05:59 PM	#17
trapfreek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 491	One of the reasons I use a muzzle loader is to extend my hunting season a couple of weeks. The other reason is that it is deadly accurate.

11-11-2007, 04:30 PM	#19
UrbinDruid Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: N. Wisconsin Posts: 3	I would just like to put in my 2 cents about this issue being that i feel that muzzle loaders say alot about the individual who uses them. I am somwhat of a peace monger hippie that feels like handguns and automatic and semi automatic rifles primarly serve the purpose of killing people. Now i am not condoning people who use them to hunt or target shoot because i will admit they are quite fun. but for me muzzle loading is a way to go because it says that you only need one shot therefore you only get one shot. i guess i feel that if you cant down a deer with one shot, you probably should spend some more time at the range before going out. i recently bought a 54 cal CVA hawken rifle which is what my first post was about, and i feel it represents me as an individual, and provided i get the kinks out of it i hope to go hunting with it this year. my other arsenal includes a 1897 bolt action springfield 22. and a 12 gauge break action. having shot both of them countless times along with many other firearms i feel that muzzle loading is the way to go. thats all the jibberish i have to say on this issue.

11-13-2007, 04:22 PM	#20
BattleRifleG3 Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western PA Posts: 11,401 Images: 13	Being able to own and enjoy firearms that have little current military significance is an indication that we haven't seen a real war on our home soil for quite some time. Why? Because we also have militarily capable arms. The same is true of huge gun collections. When you have the opportunity to appreciate many different kinds of guns, it generally means you aren't too busy shooting and reloading magazines. __________________ Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf