next step after .22 - Page 2

Dan22 · 10-31-2007, 12:11 PM

Samuel, I just went out on the internet and looked around for other opinions on this subject.

You need to get busy educating a lot of other people with differing opinions.

Me, I'll just go for clean shots with no twigs,

samuel · 10-31-2007, 01:10 PM

I cant do much about differing opinions.I cant do anything about physics.All my life I have heard that slow bullets waded brush better.All my life I have known that made no sense at all.What really gets me is some will try to shoot through brush with a .30-30 thinking they can.A great gun in brush! The truth is it is very limited without brush.Also the .12ga slug is supposed to wade brush.Try it sometime.The .12ga slug is very very limited. None of them go through even grass very good,say nothing to brush.Another very sick cartridge in brush is the 7.62+39mm. sam.

Dan22 · 10-31-2007, 03:24 PM

Samuel,

My idea of a brush gun really never had anything to do with shooting through brush as that could be considered "Hunting by Ear" and I want to see clearly what I intend to hit with a bullet.

To me, a brush gun is one that is for relatively short range shots, with no scope and is fairly short to be able to move through the brush with some stealth without getting caught on stuff. Others may have different explanations.

Yes, everyone I ever knew who hunted deer was of the opinion that a 30-30 would be less deflected if it happened to hit a twig, than a faster 30-06.
Whether it is true or false would take some pretty exhaustive testing and the variables would be mind-blowing.

Clear shots eliminate the problem.

Then everyone could argue about which caliber is best, then on to lever vs bolt action.

Lots of opinions on everything.

Roys · 10-31-2007, 08:16 PM

Read through #40 at this site The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing it might help clear up a few things. Roy

Dan22 · 10-31-2007, 08:48 PM

Thanks Roys. Very interesting.

I like the fact that he placed the final penetration point ten yards behind the target. It gives it a little more space for typical field situations.

This is the point where everyone says "See, I was right" when it appears to me that almost any of the various bullets would have been fatal to a deer.

Powderman · 11-01-2007, 04:11 AM

FutureMarine, keep the .22.

The most important thing to learn is how to HIT your target, not to fire the biggest rifle.

Your .22 will give you a lot of value for the cost: you can learn how to shoot accurately, you can learn position shooting well, and you can also shoot in all conditions to familiarize. The best value is in the ammunition; you can still get good .22 for about $15 a brick-that's 500 rounds or so!

As far as shooting bigger stuff is concerned--and advanced rifle marksmanship--the Marine Corps will teach you well in this subject.

Your best preparation will be simple: Acquire a quantity of NRA regulation targets for smallbore. Take them out to practice, and do not be satisfied until you can put 10 rounds into the X. Make sure you use proper sight alignment and sight picture.

If you have a scope, take it off and use those iron sights.

Good luck!

samuel · 11-01-2007, 05:53 AM

I cant see where that was much of a test.First I would like to see at least a 3shot group with each gun used.Second I would like to see a 5shot group going through the barrier.Third I would like to see multiple shots using identical bullets at different speeds. My personal test if you want to call it that was done in a safe area where there was lots of brush and a bright collored target placed behind it.Altho I used several guns the basic test was with a 150gr spitser sp fired from a .30-06,a .300winmag and a .300RUM.Having everything identical except the speed I found the faster the bullet the less deflection.So I fired variations from .22-250 to .12ga slugs.The target was about the size of the kill area on a deer.In this case a .243 with 80gr sp,s hit the target the most and the slower .30,s were deflected the worst.I used standard velocity .12ga slugs and never hit the same target I could hit with ease with the .243 and the fast .30,sThe .22-250 with varmint bullets blew up when it hit anything.The problem with testing is you just cant get the same shot with different guns because once you have hit the brush you cant replace it.I have fired many times through brush at targets with multiple cal.firearms and no bullet is exempt from deflection but the heavy powerful ones arent affected as bad as the slower,less powerful ones.And I agree,a brush gun is a gun you can get through the brush with,not a gun you can shoot through the brush with.But people keep thinking it means they will shoot through brush.All can be deflected.What I saw in that test he fired one shot with a .12ga and without knowing how it grouped decided it was great for brush.I say it may have hit there anyway with or without the dolls.Also I believe both he and I should discourage shooting at game through brush period.I never do intentionally. sam.

Roys · 11-01-2007, 07:46 PM

Samuel. The guy that does the "Box O' Truth" likes to shoot stuff and he sometimes takes requests, you could write to him and tell him your thoughts the way you did in #27 above, you never know, he may take it as a challenge and do it for you/us.
I don't know him and I have never met him, I have only read his Box O' Truth Chapters and I am a long ways from Texas so I won't be involved with the results. Please keep us up to date on your decision. Thanks, Roy.

10-31-2007, 01:10 PM	#22
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,035 Trader Rating: (0)	I cant do much about differing opinions.I cant do anything about physics.All my life I have heard that slow bullets waded brush better.All my life I have known that made no sense at all.What really gets me is some will try to shoot through brush with a .30-30 thinking they can.A great gun in brush! The truth is it is very limited without brush.Also the .12ga slug is supposed to wade brush.Try it sometime.The .12ga slug is very very limited. None of them go through even grass very good,say nothing to brush.Another very sick cartridge in brush is the 7.62+39mm. sam. Last edited by samuel; 10-31-2007 at 01:15 PM.

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10-31-2007, 12:11 PM	#21
Dan22 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Central Florida Posts: 289 Trader Rating: (0)	Samuel, I just went out on the internet and looked around for other opinions on this subject. You need to get busy educating a lot of other people with differing opinions. Me, I'll just go for clean shots with no twigs,

10-31-2007, 03:24 PM	#23
Dan22 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Central Florida Posts: 289 Trader Rating: (0)	Samuel, My idea of a brush gun really never had anything to do with shooting through brush as that could be considered "Hunting by Ear" and I want to see clearly what I intend to hit with a bullet. To me, a brush gun is one that is for relatively short range shots, with no scope and is fairly short to be able to move through the brush with some stealth without getting caught on stuff. Others may have different explanations. Yes, everyone I ever knew who hunted deer was of the opinion that a 30-30 would be less deflected if it happened to hit a twig, than a faster 30-06. Whether it is true or false would take some pretty exhaustive testing and the variables would be mind-blowing. Clear shots eliminate the problem. Then everyone could argue about which caliber is best, then on to lever vs bolt action. Lots of opinions on everything.

10-31-2007, 08:16 PM	#24
Roys Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28 Trader Rating: (0)	Read through #40 at this site The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing it might help clear up a few things. Roy

10-31-2007, 08:48 PM	#25
Dan22 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Central Florida Posts: 289 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks Roys. Very interesting. I like the fact that he placed the final penetration point ten yards behind the target. It gives it a little more space for typical field situations. This is the point where everyone says "See, I was right" when it appears to me that almost any of the various bullets would have been fatal to a deer.

11-01-2007, 04:11 AM	#26
Powderman Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 97 Trader Rating: (0)	FutureMarine, keep the .22. The most important thing to learn is how to HIT your target, not to fire the biggest rifle. Your .22 will give you a lot of value for the cost: you can learn how to shoot accurately, you can learn position shooting well, and you can also shoot in all conditions to familiarize. The best value is in the ammunition; you can still get good .22 for about $15 a brick-that's 500 rounds or so! As far as shooting bigger stuff is concerned--and advanced rifle marksmanship--the Marine Corps will teach you well in this subject. Your best preparation will be simple: Acquire a quantity of NRA regulation targets for smallbore. Take them out to practice, and do not be satisfied until you can put 10 rounds into the X. Make sure you use proper sight alignment and sight picture. If you have a scope, take it off and use those iron sights. Good luck!

11-01-2007, 05:53 AM	#27
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,035 Trader Rating: (0)	I cant see where that was much of a test.First I would like to see at least a 3shot group with each gun used.Second I would like to see a 5shot group going through the barrier.Third I would like to see multiple shots using identical bullets at different speeds. My personal test if you want to call it that was done in a safe area where there was lots of brush and a bright collored target placed behind it.Altho I used several guns the basic test was with a 150gr spitser sp fired from a .30-06,a .300winmag and a .300RUM.Having everything identical except the speed I found the faster the bullet the less deflection.So I fired variations from .22-250 to .12ga slugs.The target was about the size of the kill area on a deer.In this case a .243 with 80gr sp,s hit the target the most and the slower .30,s were deflected the worst.I used standard velocity .12ga slugs and never hit the same target I could hit with ease with the .243 and the fast .30,sThe .22-250 with varmint bullets blew up when it hit anything.The problem with testing is you just cant get the same shot with different guns because once you have hit the brush you cant replace it.I have fired many times through brush at targets with multiple cal.firearms and no bullet is exempt from deflection but the heavy powerful ones arent affected as bad as the slower,less powerful ones.And I agree,a brush gun is a gun you can get through the brush with,not a gun you can shoot through the brush with.But people keep thinking it means they will shoot through brush.All can be deflected.What I saw in that test he fired one shot with a .12ga and without knowing how it grouped decided it was great for brush.I say it may have hit there anyway with or without the dolls.Also I believe both he and I should discourage shooting at game through brush period.I never do intentionally. sam. Last edited by samuel; 11-01-2007 at 05:59 AM.

11-01-2007, 07:46 PM	#28
Roys Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 28 Trader Rating: (0)	Samuel. The guy that does the "Box O' Truth" likes to shoot stuff and he sometimes takes requests, you could write to him and tell him your thoughts the way you did in #27 above, you never know, he may take it as a challenge and do it for you/us. I don't know him and I have never met him, I have only read his Box O' Truth Chapters and I am a long ways from Texas so I won't be involved with the results. Please keep us up to date on your decision. Thanks, Roy.