Recommended Ammo for Carry? - Page 3

ironmike48 · 09-06-2007, 03:00 AM

I use Remington GS +P 185gr in my 1911

just_a_car · 09-06-2007, 03:46 AM

As an add-on to CrazyIvan's post:

Bullet energy is calculated by the following equation:

E = (W x V^2) / 450,400

E = Muzzle Energy in Foot-Pounds
W = Weight of Bullet in Grains
V = Muzzle Velocity in Feet Per Second.

Please notice that velocity (V) is squared in the equation, so an increase in velocity makes a big difference in Muzzle Energy, more-so than the weight of the bullet. This is why 165 grain .40 are about the same Muzzle Energy as 180 grain .40.

CrazyIvan is correct in that a heavier bullet will have more Inertia and thus be harder to stop than a lighter bullet, but the lighter bullet (at the same bore pressure) will have a higher velocity and thus hit with a higher ft.-lb. energy. Again, which is why 165 gr. and 180 gr. have very similar results in ballistics gel, since the 165 gr. is traveling a little faster than the 180 gr.

The best way to decide on whether your preferred round will penetrate is to test it in either water or ballistics gel (water is about 2-to-1, so 24 inches of water is about 12 inches of BG, which is what we want for "optimum penetration". This can be done with 4 1-gallon jugs of water) or to check a place like The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing to see if they've already tested a round you use. You can also find ballistic gel tested on the internet for just about any round.

SilentSoul · 09-06-2007, 04:44 PM

I'm packing 180 grain Remington Bonded Golden sabers. .40. They are not as fast as a smaller bullet but from my testing, They have just enough penetration(not to much) and they mushroom to an incredible size. And out of 180 grains they retain on average 176-174 grains of their mass.

Also to what JAC said, you can make your own ballistic gel, and it works very well, I recommend everyone do it at least once to see the kind of damage your bullets do.

Also Phone books work very well to show penetration. There is an article in I think American Rifleman about how phone books react much like human tissue.

sgtjimh · 11-10-2007, 04:12 PM

Hydra shocks and black talon fill my mags. I figure if the local law enforcement carries this ammo it must be lawyer friendly.

Doctor Larry K · 11-10-2007, 05:16 PM

I've read the factory "manual" and phone checked at 2 gunshops in my area without answering my question.

Will an exclusive diet of +p ammo in my Kimber ProCarry be detrimental to my new (as yet unfired) alloy frame .38 Super.(1911A1 style) It seem the +p ammo is more readily available than the standard round.

This is strictly a range/target weapon. Another forum member stated he cracked the frame on his alloy Colt after using +p over a period of time

Any help will be appreciated.

Doc

samuel · 11-10-2007, 05:31 PM

I cannot feature why someone wants to shoot souped up ammo in a firearm designed for standard loads.Even revolvers will wear with +P ammo and the gain is slight.But if you think it is beneficial,at least put the after market buffers in your pistol.There is nothing you can do for revolvers but suffer the loss in accuracy and pay the damages later.Such as lockup and timing. sam.

SilentSoul · 11-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtjimh

Hydra shocks and black talon fill my mags. I figure if the local law enforcement carries this ammo it must be lawyer friendly.

I thought the ATF was against the ammo with the label "black talon"?

samuel · 11-10-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentSoul

I thought the ATF was against the ammo with the label "black talon"?

They are but I hear you can get them.I would think it would lead to a lawsuit.I dont think the cops can use them but might be wrong. sam.

SilentSoul · 11-10-2007, 06:51 PM

I think it would be a risk not worth taking kinda like shooting a guy with re loads. Amazing what lawyers can do.

texas shooter · 11-10-2007, 08:46 PM

I like the Gold Dots myself, keep um in my .40 CCW and my .44 mag for home.

HEMI · 11-12-2007, 06:49 AM

Gold dots are a good choice Chris,I carry them in my duty 40. Also Hydra shoks work DPX is another good one.

ART338WM · 12-27-2007, 09:30 PM

I have been searching the web a great deel of late trying to find actual fact based information of hand gun ammunition performance for use in a personal defence application.
The info I found was ammo shot into balistic gelatin with 16oz cloth in front of the BG. So far the only three bullet designs that consitantly gave acceptable performace, in that being a minimum of 12" of pennatration coupled with consistant reliable bullet expansion, not stoped or drasticly reduced by the HP cloging with cloth ( basic accptable FBI bullet performance criteria) were shells loaded with these bullets:
<>Speer Gold dots
<>The NEW not old but NEW Remington BONDED core Golden Sabers
<>Barnes all copper HP/HG bullets.
If you do a search you will be utterly amaised by what is out there on bullet performance.
For those intersted go to:
boxotruth.com
This WS is all about bullet performance.
P.S.
I forgot to add one other stand out excellent performing round.
<>Winchesters new "Ranger" ammo It performed as well as any in the above test. I should add the test also thought to include ammo recomendations based on barrel length and what thay foundd its impact on bullet performance to be.

hillmillenia · 01-10-2008, 10:07 PM

At the risk of coming off sounding "Cooperesque" a 230 GR .45ACP FMJ head shot will always do the trick. A hand gun is your across the average room back-up weapon...With enough practice, you shouldn't really need sights, lights or any fancy bolt on crap to drop the shithead invading your space!

wunhunglo · 01-27-2008, 04:28 AM

For close range Combat use, when I had the choice, it was the old 1911 .45acp and 230gn FMJ.........double tap will always do the job.

LarryO1970 · 01-28-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wunhunglo

For close range Combat use, when I had the choice, it was the old 1911 .45acp and 230gn FMJ.........double tap will always do the job.

Double taps work best... or better, a Zimbabwe, (two to the chest, one to the head) but a lawyer may eat you for lunch. You could always use the drug-induced craze as a defense, because said perp would not feel the first two to the chest. The head shot would turn him out like a light.

Frankly, anyone threatens my family or home, he's going down, one way or another.

Arsenal: .380, .40, .357 Sig, 5.56mm, .308, .45LC and a .30-06 ... said perp is having a very bad day here... GoldDot or FMJ, not a pretty sight.

wunhunglo · 01-28-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Double taps work best... or better, a Zimbabwe, (two to the chest, one to the head) but a lawyer may eat you for lunch.

Lawyer gets the double zimbabwe!
Just Jokin, we never came across any Lawyers in the bush. First choice of course was a smokin 7.62 nato round but the 1911 was a damn fine back-up.
What's the difference between Road-kill Lawyer and road-kill dog?
There's skid marks in front of the dog!

LarryO1970 · 01-28-2008, 11:50 AM

lol... witnesses will cite acceleration of the vehicle for the lawyer, breaking hard and swerving to avoid the dog.

We ARE on the same page.

nighthawk80 · 01-28-2008, 02:28 PM

I just bought some Federal HST 230 gr. The reviews are pretty positive.

09-06-2007, 03:46 AM	#42
just_a_car Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 3,414 Trader Rating: (0)	As an add-on to CrazyIvan's post: Bullet energy is calculated by the following equation: E = (W x V^2) / 450,400 E = Muzzle Energy in Foot-Pounds W = Weight of Bullet in Grains V = Muzzle Velocity in Feet Per Second. Please notice that velocity (V) is squared in the equation, so an increase in velocity makes a big difference in Muzzle Energy, more-so than the weight of the bullet. This is why 165 grain .40 are about the same Muzzle Energy as 180 grain .40. CrazyIvan is correct in that a heavier bullet will have more Inertia and thus be harder to stop than a lighter bullet, but the lighter bullet (at the same bore pressure) will have a higher velocity and thus hit with a higher ft.-lb. energy. Again, which is why 165 gr. and 180 gr. have very similar results in ballistics gel, since the 165 gr. is traveling a little faster than the 180 gr. The best way to decide on whether your preferred round will penetrate is to test it in either water or ballistics gel (water is about 2-to-1, so 24 inches of water is about 12 inches of BG, which is what we want for "optimum penetration". This can be done with 4 1-gallon jugs of water) or to check a place like The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing to see if they've already tested a round you use. You can also find ballistic gel tested on the internet for just about any round. __________________

11-10-2007, 05:16 PM	#45
Doctor Larry K Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Palm Springs, Calif. Posts: 402 Trader Rating: (0)	.38Super ammo choices I've read the factory "manual" and phone checked at 2 gunshops in my area without answering my question. Will an exclusive diet of +p ammo in my Kimber ProCarry be detrimental to my new (as yet unfired) alloy frame .38 Super.(1911A1 style) It seem the +p ammo is more readily available than the standard round. This is strictly a range/target weapon. Another forum member stated he cracked the frame on his alloy Colt after using +p over a period of time Any help will be appreciated. Doc Last edited by Doctor Larry K; 11-10-2007 at 05:20 PM.

12-27-2007, 09:30 PM	#52
ART338WM Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28 Trader Rating: (0)	I have been searching the web a great deel of late trying to find actual fact based information of hand gun ammunition performance for use in a personal defence application. The info I found was ammo shot into balistic gelatin with 16oz cloth in front of the BG. So far the only three bullet designs that consitantly gave acceptable performace, in that being a minimum of 12" of pennatration coupled with consistant reliable bullet expansion, not stoped or drasticly reduced by the HP cloging with cloth ( basic accptable FBI bullet performance criteria) were shells loaded with these bullets: <>Speer Gold dots <>The NEW not old but NEW Remington BONDED core Golden Sabers <>Barnes all copper HP/HG bullets. If you do a search you will be utterly amaised by what is out there on bullet performance. For those intersted go to: boxotruth.com This WS is all about bullet performance. P.S. I forgot to add one other stand out excellent performing round. <>Winchesters new "Ranger" ammo It performed as well as any in the above test. I should add the test also thought to include ammo recomendations based on barrel length and what thay foundd its impact on bullet performance to be. Last edited by ART338WM; 12-29-2007 at 12:54 PM.

01-10-2008, 10:07 PM	#53
hillmillenia Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2 Trader Rating: (0)	Tried and True At the risk of coming off sounding "Cooperesque" a 230 GR .45ACP FMJ head shot will always do the trick. A hand gun is your across the average room back-up weapon...With enough practice, you shouldn't really need sights, lights or any fancy bolt on crap to drop the shithead invading your space!

09-06-2007, 03:00 AM	#41
ironmike48 Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: seattle wa. Posts: 14 Trader Rating: (0)	I use Remington GS +P 185gr in my 1911

09-06-2007, 04:44 PM	#43
SilentSoul Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 603 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm packing 180 grain Remington Bonded Golden sabers. .40. They are not as fast as a smaller bullet but from my testing, They have just enough penetration(not to much) and they mushroom to an incredible size. And out of 180 grains they retain on average 176-174 grains of their mass. Also to what JAC said, you can make your own ballistic gel, and it works very well, I recommend everyone do it at least once to see the kind of damage your bullets do. Also Phone books work very well to show penetration. There is an article in I think American Rifleman about how phone books react much like human tissue.

11-10-2007, 04:12 PM	#44
sgtjimh Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 9 Trader Rating: (0)	Hydra shocks and black talon fill my mags. I figure if the local law enforcement carries this ammo it must be lawyer friendly.

11-10-2007, 05:31 PM	#46
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,050 Trader Rating: (0)	I cannot feature why someone wants to shoot souped up ammo in a firearm designed for standard loads.Even revolvers will wear with +P ammo and the gain is slight.But if you think it is beneficial,at least put the after market buffers in your pistol.There is nothing you can do for revolvers but suffer the loss in accuracy and pay the damages later.Such as lockup and timing. sam.

11-10-2007, 06:51 PM	#49
SilentSoul Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 603 Trader Rating: (0)	I think it would be a risk not worth taking kinda like shooting a guy with re loads. Amazing what lawyers can do.

11-10-2007, 08:46 PM	#50
texas shooter Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 62 Trader Rating: (0)	I like the Gold Dots myself, keep um in my .40 CCW and my .44 mag for home.

11-12-2007, 06:49 AM	#51
HEMI Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 557 Trader Rating: (0)	Gold dots are a good choice Chris,I carry them in my duty 40. Also Hydra shoks work DPX is another good one.

01-27-2008, 04:28 AM	#54
wunhunglo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: currently "Sunny West Africa" Posts: 1,366 Trader Rating: (0)	For close range Combat use, when I had the choice, it was the old 1911 .45acp and 230gn FMJ.........double tap will always do the job.

01-28-2008, 11:50 AM	#57
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 2,430 Trader Rating: (0)	lol... witnesses will cite acceleration of the vehicle for the lawyer, breaking hard and swerving to avoid the dog. We ARE on the same page.

01-28-2008, 02:28 PM	#58
nighthawk80 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Just south of Central Indiana Posts: 399 Trader Rating: (0)	I just bought some Federal HST 230 gr. The reviews are pretty positive.