9MM to .40 S&W

[risk_3715]

I own an XD sub-compact chambered in 9MM and have recently had the option of trading it for the same gun chambered in .40. The gun's purpose is personal self-defense.

Perhaps I can have some feedback on which calibre you prefer.

Thanks

[nathangdad]

Read the history. The 9mm has a long history of being rejected based on battlefield experience.
Basically, it is a failure of power to put down an opponent. The .40 has more put down power.
The .45 with a 230 grain bullet is the best. Remember, you will most likely encounter a drug user in your home. You need put down power, not hope to put down power as you will probably only have one good shot.

[neophyte]

risk_3715: Sir; the viability of any argument on caliber. Proprietary thinking allow any "one" shot at any placement WILL stop the supposed perpetrator.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Argument abound in discussions ONE SHOT ONE KILL
BS meter should go OFF.
Shot placement; perpetrators state of mind; perpetrators pain threshold or lack thereof.
In BATTLE [reference] many a Soldier has had terminal wounding YET kept trying aggressively.
What would this suggest? FBI's investigated and published 'journals' with conclusive [FBI's"] opinion on this exact subject.
Sir; peace of mind thinking. Give consideration to this. [not intended to be overly demonstrative or melodramatic]
What is YOUR comfort level
What is YOUR accuracy
What do you expect YOU to do in a highly charged situation.
How do you practice
How is your family with your 'decisions'
My posting are with my thinking baseing some on proposed Fact. Notice proposed. Should I believe what I've seen or the FBI's proposition?
Fact: you'll probably not take anyone out with [1] shot [handgun]
Fact: between the eyes shot: conversation over
Fact: In home; Shotgun will do a lot more damage
Do I have opinions? Yes. Do you like shooting your XD9? It is about half the cost of .40's ammo.
And to simplify my position. .22-.38-9mm-.357-.40-.44 are part of my defense. In the house. 12 gauge shotgun with 6 shot.
Sir; keep the 9mm and practice

[HEMI]

I agree, the 9mm with ball ammo is a weak sd choice but so is a 45.
With a good hollow point[gold dot,DPX,hydra shok etc...] they work just fine if you shoot until the threat is over, there isn't a handgun out there that I'll stake my life on with only 1 shot.
The differance between the 9,40 and 45 are closer than most think useing good sd loads.

[jashoffa]

LEO overwhelmingly carry .40's. the 9mm has really fallen of in LE popularity. There is always trade offs. caliber for number of rounds. you can get a 9mm that holds several more rounds than a .40. I do think that the .40 bridges the gap between an 9mm and a .45ACP. I have a .45 my next gun will be a .40. I would like a get a 9mm too.

[SilverRun]

If your sole purpose is self defense, then I would likely trade for the .40 S&W. Guns like most things in life is compromise and trade-offs. The 9mm ammo is cheaper, so you are likely to practice more which should improve shot placement. The .40 has more energy than a 9mm, and will impart more damage to the target, provided you hit the proper location. If you are comfortable with the 9mm and can shoot it well, stick with it. With some good ammo (Cor-bon, Double-tap, etc.) it will take care of any social problem you encounter. If you would not be bothered by slightly more recoil or more expensive ammo - trade for the .40. I personally use .40 in my CCW guns.

[Zen900]

Originally Posted by nathangdad

Read the history. The 9mm has a long history of being rejected based on battlefield experience.

Huh? What about the German Luger and P-38? What about the M9? Probably the majority of pistol rounds fired in wars back in the 20th century were 9mm.

[mosineer]

They all have their pros and cons. Accuracy, recoil, capacity, and concealment are just a few things to consider. It really comes down to your preference and what you are comfortable with. With todays ammo, and specifically the JHP, most differences between the 9mm, .40, and .45 is pretty small. Penetration tests show all three in the 13" to 14.5" range. The expansion and the subsequent wound diameter ranges from .57" for the 9mm to .77" for the .45. Certainly the .45 shows it has more mass, but with nearly the same penetration, I am not convinced that .20" in the wound diameter makes the 9mm a less efficient weapon for self defense. Any of the three are fine weapons. Try them out first and see how they fit and what you are comfortable with. Oh, on a side note: I just read where the military signed a contract for 70,000 more M9 9mm's last year.

*****************************************************
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[Zen900]

Originally Posted by mosineer

I just read where the military signed a contract for 70,000 more M9 9mm's last year.
*****************************************************
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

The military also just bought a ton of Ruger 9mm pistols for the new Iraqi defense forces(police included). The 9mm may be th best self defense handgun round yet invented. There is the 9mm parabellum and then there is all the other immitations.

[neophyte]

pieces to a puzzle?
Give consideration to these facts? from 'Cor Bon'
4" barrel

9mm 100grn +p JHP 1475fps/483 FTLBs
.40 165grn JHP 1150fps/1485 FPE
.45 230grn JHP 950fps/461 FPE

'mosineer's' hole punch ability point should be well taken. Each of these; has the talked about compromised abilities.
Shoot ability: I want whom ever, that was responsible for covering my 'behind' to be able to hit at least close. That being said; I wouldn't care to much about the caliber. My concern? Know your limitations and work to improve.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 9mm-.40-.45 with practice.
If you can't hit your intended target; it'll not matter what caliber unless you use a grenade.

My diatribe emphatically express one point.
Practice, and Practice responsible.

Thank those who have been patient

[LiveToShoot]

I appreciate these comments, and ballistic comparisons, because I too have been weighing in the balance the self-defense value of the 9, 40 and 45 calibers.

I've got each of these calibers and try to practice with them often, so whichever one is in my hand at the time of need can be used to its highest effectiveness to eliminate the threat.

[risk_3715]

I never said anything was wrong with the 9mm. I've been practicing with all three: 9mm, .40, and .45. Even .380. However, it's undeniable that more energy is being transfered in a larger calibre bullet than in a smaller one. In neophyte's post it shows that more energy per foot is being transfered- even more than a .45. I'm not worried about penetration as much as I'm worried about stopping power round after round.

In my persnal opinion, I don't believe there to be much difference to matter. However, I've noticed that I like the .40 more. The reason I asked on this forum was to get other opinions and maybe even some real useful facts.

In that, I'm grateful. Thanks

[snuffysmith]

Guys, This has been going on since cave man days. It's all apples & oranges, Fords or Chevys. Personal preference. Sure there are differences in calibers, that is a law of phisics. It comes down to what your are comfortable with, can shoot accurately, and reliably. As far as self defense, no matter what the cal., shoot to stop the threat. If you miss, it doesn't matter what size gun you used, now does it?
Just my 2c worth. I own 9mm, 9mm mak, 40 cal. 357 and 22/22mag. I might even shoot you with a shotgun or any of several fifles. LOL

Snuffy

[ArkansasHunter]

risk3715 40 S&W must be pretty good for hundreds of law enforcement departments to change to the 40 S&W.
You don't hardly hear about how accurate the cartridge is, there an ultra accurate cartridge as far as I'm concerned and my proff is my son he's an LEO and Expert matter of fact I've heard recently he's the best shot in the state.
He can shoot out a 50 cent size circle at 25 yards consistantly with his issued and personal pistol in 40 S&W cartridge.
You can't loose changeing to the 40 S&W it's a very hot and potant cartridge...A.H

[ouch]

The correct data is 485 foot pounds of energy for a 40 not 1485. That said that is why velocity is the holy grail.

It is a simple equation e=1/2mv2. You can take your bullet weight in grains and divide it by 449820 and multiply that by the speed squared.

There are a lot of factors to consider besides energy as others have discussed.

Originally Posted by neophyte

pieces to a puzzle?
Give consideration to these facts? from 'Cor Bon'
4" barrel

9mm 100grn +p JHP 1475fps/483 FTLBs
.40 165grn JHP 1150fps/1485 FPE
.45 230grn JHP 950fps/461 FPE

'mosineer's' hole punch ability point should be well taken. Each of these; has the talked about compromised abilities.
Shoot ability: I want whom ever, that was responsible for covering my 'behind' to be able to hit at least close. That being said; I wouldn't care to much about the caliber. My concern? Know your limitations and work to improve.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 9mm-.40-.45 with practice.
If you can't hit your intended target; it'll not matter what caliber unless you use a grenade.

My diatribe emphatically express one point.
Practice, and Practice responsible.

Thank those who have been patient

[neophyte]

ouch; opp's; typo; I got excited
Sir; too; velocity is the 'grail'
I would prefer speed in general; but if you can't hit your target
Of the 3 under consideration the absolute values are
[non mathematical] have you practiced enough to hit your target. Within the realm of high stress; I prefer what-ever you are most comfortable shooting.
Those that practice; and practice responsibly stay current with practicing; you know your limitations.
All ARMS are compromises. What takes part of the equations out, PRACTICE

[DWARREN123]

The 40 S&W has better stats but go with what you are comfortable with.
The 40 S&W does have more recoil and is slower (IMO) to get back on target but also more power. Also depends on make/model.

[risk_3715]

So, to kick the dead horse. I understand it's personal preference. I'll switch to the .40 cause I like shooting it with this pistol more.

[TexasT]

I have a 40SW but I'm looking into getting an XD subcompact like yours.

Have you thought about putting hp's in your 9mm?

[risk_3715]

Just Plain Jane HP's? No, I shoot JHP through it like the PD rounds by Federal.