Mushroom ends on SP cartridges

Plank Road Farm · 12-22-2007, 07:06 PM

I was talking to a friend of mine who hunts deer with his Rem 700 BDL "Ducks Unlimited" rifle in 30-06 cal.

He showed me cartridges that had the soft points mushroomed that were in the magazine when he fired the gun.

He said the recoil of the gun was causing the soft points to spread out.

Has anyone ever seen this before?

Is there a fix for this problem besides using the gun as a single shot?

And, if you use a cartidge that has a mushroomed point, will it affect the accuracy?

Not sure where to ask this question.

Hope I've posted this thread in the correct forum.

Mooseman684 · 12-22-2007, 07:10 PM

I've never seen this Happen even with my big High power Magnums...
Rich

JSnover · 12-22-2007, 07:13 PM

The simplest fix would be to use a bullet with a harder nose or a plastic tip. It will effect accuracy but at short distances it may not be much of a problem, unless they're really being beat up. I own one of those rifles and haven't had that happen. Do you know if they were reloads or store-bought?

ArkansasHunter · 12-22-2007, 07:48 PM

I'm wondering if it will seat the bullet futher back and cause a BOOM in the magazine.
Tell your friend to stop useing that box of ammo and try another of the same and
If it continues to happen contact Remington.
A.H

Midas · 12-22-2007, 07:59 PM

Are they mushrooming?, or are the tips being deformed? It's not uncommon for the tips of soft point bullets to become deformed in the magazine, after firing the rifle.

Plank Road Farm · 12-23-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midas

Are they mushrooming?, or are the tips being deformed? It's not uncommon for the tips of soft point bullets to become deformed in the magazine, after firing the rifle.

"Mushrooming" is my term, not his, wasn't sure how to describ it.

Yes, the tips are being deformed in the sense they are flatened uniformly and some not, some are to one side or the other.

Didn't seem to bother him, kind of thought it amusing. When he showed this to me he said, "Look here what happened to my tips in the magazine".

It is store bought ammo, Win, I think.

I am considering purchasing a 30-06 and just didn't want to get in trouble if I can help it.

Not sure if it is common with this manufacturer or any others for that matter.

toolman · 12-23-2007, 12:45 AM

I've talked to some guys that work at the Remington Ammo plant in Ar. about deformed bullet tips. The basic reply that I got was, the deformity will affect the ballistic coeficient more than the accuracy unless it is bad enough to unbalance the bullet during rotation.

Mooseman684 · 12-23-2007, 01:06 AM

After thinking about this I think I would either change bullets to Ballistic tips or Hollow points, or even a round nosed bullet, or try to figure a way of padding the front of the magazine with a thin strip of something like bicycle inner tube to stop the deformation...
Rich

samuel · 12-23-2007, 05:50 AM

Deformed points have been happening every since spire point bullets came out.The first solution I know about was to extend the copper jacket beyond the lead core,hince"hollowpoint" bullets.These were great for not distorting but didnt expand properly if the point was too small and cut BC,and range if too large.The bullet was longer and didnt work well in the slower twist,s in those days Winchester came out with the "silvertip"which was an aluminum cap over the lead point long before my time and they were hailed as super accurate at longer ranges but didnt expand like Remington "corelokt" which did distort in the mag but were rated as a real game stopper and still are to this day.So with these two companies supplying most of the hunting ammo it left a choice of a bullet that was real accurate at long range or one that was a little less accurate but a real game stopper.Today with new methods of forming the hollow tip thinner or adding a polimer tip that stops deformities and drives back into the HP causing expansion,plus all of the core bonding to control expansion and prevent weight loss it is unnessary to put up with distortion even in factory loads.To answer AH,s question about driving the bullet deeper in the powder causing higher pressures,That would be nearly impossible with a factory crimp on the bullet but could happen with reloads.It would be slight on reloads if you use the 90%+ full casing as advised on casings.That is what makes me shivver when I hear someone say they can shake a loaded round and hear the powder.What if the bullet slips back?They can be way up in pressure in a hurry. sam.

JSnover · 12-23-2007, 05:55 AM

If you like the soft point but don't need a spitzer (sharp) point, see if you can buy factory loads with a round soft point (or make them yourself!). Either way it's not a big deal. Unless you're you're taking long shots you're not losing much. Ask the .30-30 guys, their bullets get mashed up pretty bad and the deer can't tell the difference.

dogman2 · 12-23-2007, 06:18 AM

It is caused by recoil driving bullets into the magazine wall. A few years ago somebody ran tests on the deformed points, I can't remember if it was NRA or a gun writer, but they determined it didn't hurt POI as much as BC. Almost never heard of now with tipped bullets.

jerry · 12-23-2007, 08:01 AM

Iv'e seen it before. Interesting it was brought up I foregot about it. I keep a sled in my 700 most of the time any way. I think if a guy is a bench rest shooter it may make his teeth itch somewhere down the line, but as the guys indicated, not a biggie.
Foot note: "Hollow Points" were mentioned, be careful about ethnics and legalities with this type of projectile for some hunting scenerios, ie. deer.

ArkansasHunter · 12-23-2007, 09:42 AM

Plank Road Farmer I just went and looked at some Winchester Power Point ammo I have and compared to some similar Remington Core Lokt's.

The Power Points have more LEAD exposed at the tip, over an 1/8 of an inch.
The Remington Core lokt's have hardly any and I personaly believe the Core lokt's to be a better cartridge.

My suggestion is, if you buy a boltaction rifle pray that it loves Core Lokt's the best I believe you want have the mushrooming problems as your friend does with the Winchester Power Points.

I would like you to consider a 308 caliber rifle before you buy, This site has plenty of information as to why I will recommed the 308.

I hope this helps...A.H

12-22-2007, 07:06 PM	#1
Plank Road Farm Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cameron, NC Posts: 20 Trader Rating: (0)	Mushroom ends on SP cartridges I was talking to a friend of mine who hunts deer with his Rem 700 BDL "Ducks Unlimited" rifle in 30-06 cal. He showed me cartridges that had the soft points mushroomed that were in the magazine when he fired the gun. He said the recoil of the gun was causing the soft points to spread out. Has anyone ever seen this before? Is there a fix for this problem besides using the gun as a single shot? And, if you use a cartidge that has a mushroomed point, will it affect the accuracy? Not sure where to ask this question. Hope I've posted this thread in the correct forum.

12-22-2007, 07:10 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,187 Trader Rating: (0)	I've never seen this Happen even with my big High power Magnums... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-22-2007, 07:59 PM	#5
Midas Troll B' Gone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Springdale, Arkansas Posts: 3,678 Trader Rating: (0)	Are they mushrooming?, or are the tips being deformed? It's not uncommon for the tips of soft point bullets to become deformed in the magazine, after firing the rifle. __________________ "Recoil lasts for a second, gravity lasts forever"

12-23-2007, 12:45 AM	#7
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,303 Trader Rating: (0)	I've talked to some guys that work at the Remington Ammo plant in Ar. about deformed bullet tips. The basic reply that I got was, the deformity will affect the ballistic coeficient more than the accuracy unless it is bad enough to unbalance the bullet during rotation. __________________ Don't be messin' with my gun!

12-23-2007, 01:06 AM	#8
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,187 Trader Rating: (0)	After thinking about this I think I would either change bullets to Ballistic tips or Hollow points, or even a round nosed bullet, or try to figure a way of padding the front of the magazine with a thin strip of something like bicycle inner tube to stop the deformation... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

12-22-2007, 07:13 PM	#3
JSnover Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	The simplest fix would be to use a bullet with a harder nose or a plastic tip. It will effect accuracy but at short distances it may not be much of a problem, unless they're really being beat up. I own one of those rifles and haven't had that happen. Do you know if they were reloads or store-bought?

12-22-2007, 07:48 PM	#4
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,465 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm wondering if it will seat the bullet futher back and cause a BOOM in the magazine. Tell your friend to stop useing that box of ammo and try another of the same and If it continues to happen contact Remington. A.H

12-23-2007, 05:50 AM	#9
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,050 Trader Rating: (0)	Deformed points have been happening every since spire point bullets came out.The first solution I know about was to extend the copper jacket beyond the lead core,hince"hollowpoint" bullets.These were great for not distorting but didnt expand properly if the point was too small and cut BC,and range if too large.The bullet was longer and didnt work well in the slower twist,s in those days Winchester came out with the "silvertip"which was an aluminum cap over the lead point long before my time and they were hailed as super accurate at longer ranges but didnt expand like Remington "corelokt" which did distort in the mag but were rated as a real game stopper and still are to this day.So with these two companies supplying most of the hunting ammo it left a choice of a bullet that was real accurate at long range or one that was a little less accurate but a real game stopper.Today with new methods of forming the hollow tip thinner or adding a polimer tip that stops deformities and drives back into the HP causing expansion,plus all of the core bonding to control expansion and prevent weight loss it is unnessary to put up with distortion even in factory loads.To answer AH,s question about driving the bullet deeper in the powder causing higher pressures,That would be nearly impossible with a factory crimp on the bullet but could happen with reloads.It would be slight on reloads if you use the 90%+ full casing as advised on casings.That is what makes me shivver when I hear someone say they can shake a loaded round and hear the powder.What if the bullet slips back?They can be way up in pressure in a hurry. sam.

12-23-2007, 05:55 AM	#10
JSnover Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	If you like the soft point but don't need a spitzer (sharp) point, see if you can buy factory loads with a round soft point (or make them yourself!). Either way it's not a big deal. Unless you're you're taking long shots you're not losing much. Ask the .30-30 guys, their bullets get mashed up pretty bad and the deer can't tell the difference.

12-23-2007, 06:18 AM	#11
dogman2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 178 Trader Rating: (0)	It is caused by recoil driving bullets into the magazine wall. A few years ago somebody ran tests on the deformed points, I can't remember if it was NRA or a gun writer, but they determined it didn't hurt POI as much as BC. Almost never heard of now with tipped bullets.

12-23-2007, 08:01 AM	#12
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,757 Trader Rating: (0)	Iv'e seen it before. Interesting it was brought up I foregot about it. I keep a sled in my 700 most of the time any way. I think if a guy is a bench rest shooter it may make his teeth itch somewhere down the line, but as the guys indicated, not a biggie. Foot note: "Hollow Points" were mentioned, be careful about ethnics and legalities with this type of projectile for some hunting scenerios, ie. deer. __________________

12-23-2007, 09:42 AM	#13
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,465 Trader Rating: (0)	Plank Road Farmer I just went and looked at some Winchester Power Point ammo I have and compared to some similar Remington Core Lokt's. The Power Points have more LEAD exposed at the tip, over an 1/8 of an inch. The Remington Core lokt's have hardly any and I personaly believe the Core lokt's to be a better cartridge. My suggestion is, if you buy a boltaction rifle pray that it loves Core Lokt's the best I believe you want have the mushrooming problems as your friend does with the Winchester Power Points. I would like you to consider a 308 caliber rifle before you buy, This site has plenty of information as to why I will recommed the 308. I hope this helps...A.H