FORCED VACCINATION IN AMERICA

[LiveToShoot]

FORCED VACCINATION IN AMERICA
POWER GRAB BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SETS
(A look back to help us anticipate what's ahead, in the event of a survival situation...)

[Momoney567]

Thank you for bringing this to attention.

[troy2000]

This is just more paranoid horse-****. If some of you younger fools had grown up seeing your classmates being crippled or killed by polio, you might not think it was such a bad thing that the government came up with a vaccine and forced people to use it. You've never gone home for summer vacation, and come back to see the friend you used to run across the playground with dragging himself on crutches instead, with his useless legs in iron braces.

Some of you are so spoiled by growing up in a world where most diseases that kill or maim children have been brought under control that you think God made the world that way. It's time you grew up and realized He didn't. What made the world safe for children was vaccination, not paranoia.

You're like members of PETA or The Center For Biological Diversity who've never been hungry in their lives, whining about what a crime it is to kill animals for food or plow ground to grow crops.

How DARE the government try to keep us alive and healthy, and encroach on our right to let our children die?!?

[LiveToShoot]

It seems that whatever this forum member posts, outside the sterile comments about guns and game, is attacked to discredit and devalue by some who skate along in the surface issues in life, totally missing the deeper issues that affect our lives.

Please look deeper into what is posted...there's more to the above post than "Forced Vaccination in America". All of us who are paying attention will recognize and know the value of legitimate vaccinations to help rid us of legitimate and harmful diseases.

This post is broader, and covers more than the issues associated with just vaccinations. It is intended to help the discerning reader learn more about the governmental restructuring that has and is opening the doorway for more "control" and "force" and less "freedom" and "choice" in whatever matter may be pressing us.

What is happening to "freedom" and "choice" in America? That's the deeper question and message here.

The last time I looked them up, control and force are the opposite of freedom and choice.

America is supposed to be a land of freedom and choice, not control and force.

Freedom and choice is what is really being debated here...not just the narrow sphere of how there is now a legislative mechanism in the government to permit control and force in the administration of vaccinations, it's about the the broader sphere of freedom and choice to decide what we want and do not want in our lives, the freedom and choice that mature and responsible adults have the God given and constitutionally protected right to.

[A-10]

The point is that "Big brother" just got bigger and The United States has taken one more step towards becoming a nanny state! Troy, no body is speaking against life-saving vaccines, just the ones that are tyrannicaly forced upon citizens without their consent.

[LarryO1970]

... without their consent? What about the kid that has to sit next to that non-vaccinated kid in school? Their non-vaccinated kid is a threat to others. Do you want your non-vaccinated kid in solitary in school because other kids fear them?

I'm all about smaller Govt. ... but this comes down to social responsibility.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by A-10

The point is that "Big brother" just got bigger and The United States has taken one more step towards becoming a nanny state! Troy, no body is speaking against life-saving vaccines, just the ones that are tyrannicaly forced upon citizens without their consent.

A-10, a vaccine doesn't work unless you reach a certain critical mass of the populace being vaccinated to break the chain of infection. The only effective way to get that mass is to "tyrannicaly" require people to get the vaccination, whether they like it or not. What's all the hysteria? None of my children were allowed in school into school without their shots, and I wasn't allowed into school without mine.

I say again, you people are spoiled. Most of you weren't even born when smallpox was eliminated and polio brought under control, and most childhood diseases brought to heel. But some of us remember when thousands died yearly, from diseases that you've probably never even seen.

It didn't just magically happen; it happened because our government funded research to create vaccines, and crammed vaccination down the throats of people who were so stupid they believed flouridating our water supply was a communist plot to poison and kill us all, and so were vaccinations.

[Cyrano]

T2K, normally you and I are in agreement, or at least close enough we can hammer out a compromise. But this time I believe you are completely wrong.

As it is presently being done, the goddamnyankee gummint has gone so far overboard with mandatory inoculations for kids they can't even find the lifeboat. What is more, they are not inoculating against potential killers like polio or smallpox. (And before you ask, while I am just barely too young to remember iron lungs and leg braces being unremarkable, I'm old enough to recall the "official" declaration smallpox has been eradicated; that took place only a decade or so ago.) Thegoverment is inoculating against ordinary childhood diseases that in North America are annoyances, not deadly dangers as they were to native populations in the 17th, 18th and 19th Centuries. And by so doing, they have created the Autism Epidemic. I will explain.

Before the 1990s, kids starting school would have received the Sabin oral vaccine against polio, a vaccination against smallpox, and perhaps a tetanus shot if they had been badly cut or stepped on a nail or something. Over the course of their first four years of school, they'd lose a week or two here and there to the mumps, measles, chickenpox and rubella. They'd sit at home watching daytime TV, drinking lemonade and eating whatever Mommy would let them eat. It was no big deal.

Then Big Pharma discovered childhood diseases and began making vaccines to immunize against them. Along the way, they bought enough politicians to have laws passed making getting these shots mandatory before a child could attend public school. (Parenthetic note: Slick Hillary Clinton is the biggest recipient of Big Pharma money and a staunch supporter of the Big Pharma agenda in Congress. Barack Obama is No. 2.)

Today, before a child can attend public school, thanks to Big Pharma's tame politicians that child must have more than TWO DOZEN different shots. All of them must be given by the age of 5. And, believe it or not, it is as a direct result of those inoculations and vaccines that we have the Autism Epidemic.

Before the 1990s and the advent of mass inoculation of schoolkids, the incidence of autism in male children was 1 in 25,000. Incidence in females was almost zero; an autistic girl-child was remarkable enough to be written up in the medical journals.

Today, the incidence is 1 in 100 for males, and 1 in 150 for females. If that doesn't frighten you, it should! And what is the common factor?

Uh-huh. You got it. The very vaccines that are Big Pharma's cash cow.

There are other factors that work into the equation, principally whether there is a genetic predisposition to autism. Recent research indicates that there is a particular site on Chromosome 16 of the human genome which can be pointed to with confidence as indicating whether or not a child is at risk, that the kid has that predisposition.

But Big Pharma and the Congress don't care about that. Nope; "You VILL giff der kinder die injecktions. Der kinder MUSS hafe dem or ve vill nicht allow dem to be educated. Vorwarts, marasch, kinder! Die injecktions ist gut fur sie! Ist ein Fuehrerbefehl!" (Oops, sorry, wrong rant.)

Here is what happens when a kid is given a vaccine, down on the celular level.

The immune system reacts to the allegedly benign intruder. One of the symptoms of this is cellular inflammation, particularly in the gut. Tiny interstices can be opened in the intestinal walls. For reasons the scientists and doctors don't understand yet, kids with the genetic predisposition are prone to this. Toxins that are supposed to pass out of the body instead pass back into the body and accumulate in the brain, blocking some neural pathways and short-circuiting others.

At the same time, the altered immune system may leave the body vulnerable to outside infection. What can ahppen is that candida albicans, a nasty and hostile fungus, can establish itself in the intestines, further weakening the intestinal walls and interfering with the absorption and digestion of food. And around the vicious circle goes.

Antibiotics exacerbate the problem, because one of the first things they do is administered internally is to kill off the intestinal flora. This merely offers candida a clear field to infest. Think how many times someone you know who has gone through a course of antibiotics has been told, "Be sure and eat a lot of yogurt for the next week or so." That's to reestablish normal intestinal flora before bad ones can infest your guts. What is a nuisance in normal children and normal adults is catastrophic in kids with a genetic predisposition toward autism.

If the problem is diagnosed early enough, a drastic change in diet, administration of antifungal agents, and an immediate cessation of these vaccines may arrest the problem. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy helps in many cases, though the doctors and scientists studying autism don't understand why, merely that it does work. Intensive work with therapists can help amerliorate the worst of the effects. But the window is incredibly narrow. Essentially, if you don't get the child's damage fixed by the time he reaches 5 years old, he will always have the problems. I leave it to you to consider the implications associated with a population where 1% of all males and 0.75% of all females are on the autism spectrum.

The villain among the vaccines seems to be the measles vaccine, though none of them are prizes. Any of them when administered too swiftly and repeatedly to a still-developing immune system can start the ball rolling.

Believe me when I tell you this. I have a 4 1/2 year old son who was perfectly fine until he received his state-mandated measles vaccine shot when he was 18 months old. He had a very bad reaction to it and it made him autistic. We've been working with him intensively for two years. While there has been improvement, no one watching him for longer than a couple of minutes would ever mistake him for a normal child. It was nanny-state required vaccination that did this to him.

I know far too many parents at his special school with stories similar to ours to believe that the autism epidemic "just happened." What is hurting the children of America is corporate greed by the big pharmaceutical companies and the greed of the politicians who take Big Pharma's money for their political campaigns in return for making sure Big Pharma is not prosecuted for their crimes and making sure Big Pharma's cash cow stays ungored by requiring all children to get these potentially damaging shots.

Frankly, we were better off 30 years ago, when a rare child dying of the measles made national news. Losing one child is tragic. But deliberately damaging a significant percentage of an entire generation of children under the guise of "protecting" them is a holocaust.

It is not mercury preservative in the vaccines. it never was. It is the anti-childhood illnesses vaccines themselves that are doing this to the children of the First World. You do not see the two order of magnitude increase in autism among countries and peoples who do not vaccinate their kids from hell to breakfast against every disease they can think of. it's only the children of the First World nations that are subject to the Autism Epidemic.

Adult, fully developed immune systems can withstand the assault of many vaccines in a short time. Just ask anyone who has ever gone through basic training - although even they will tell you about this boot or that recruit who had a bad reaction to a shot and had to be iced down. But out kids' still-developing immune systems can't stand up to that kind of biological insult. The doctors know it. The government knows it. Too many vaccinations, too fast, is the source of the autism epidemic.

They just don't give a damn.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program of wit and wisdom and commentary on firearms and firearms-related issues. My apologies for preempting the forum, but this is an important issue to me for the obvious reason.

[troy2000]

I'm sorry to hear about your child, Cyrano. But no one has shown me any convincing proof that vaccines cause autism. Since almost every child in America is getting vaccinated now, obviously almost every child who's autistic will have been vaccinated. That doesn't prove cause-and-effect.

I don't believe the so-called "Autism Epidemic" has anything to do with vaccinations, Cyrano. It has a LOT to do with the fact that they've widened the diagnosis of autism to include all kinds of things that weren't formerly considered autistic. Some of that's because of better diagnosis and better understanding of autism, but some of it's also due to the definition of autism being hugely expanded in the past few years until it includes "pu't near ever'body 'n his dog". Although I'm not downplaying your particular child's problem, some of what's being called autism today would've been considered mere personality quirks not that long ago.

[quote=Cyrano;396272]Over the course of their first four years of school, they'd lose a week or two here and there to the mumps, measles, chickenpox and rubella. They'd sit at home watching daytime TV, drinking lemonade and eating whatever Mommy would let them eat. It was no big deal.QUOTE]
You're a little too casual about dismissing those diseases, Cyrano. The fact that the average child gets through them just fine doesn't mean they can't be serious. I had all four of them, and while I lucky and didn't have any serious complications, I was sick as a dog each time, except for the measles. I don't remember sitting around drinking lemonade, either. Particularly with the mumps.

With measles, the main reason for vaccination is to break the chain and prevent pregnant women from contracting it. To quote Wikipedia, "Infection of the mother by Rubella virus during pregnancy can be serious; if the mother is infected within the first 20 weeks of pregnancy, the child may be born with congenital rubella syndrome (CRS), which is a range of serious incurable illnesses. Spontaneous abortion occurs in up to 20% of cases."

I'm disheartened that you'd believe countless government officials and doctors know what causes autism, and just don't give a damn. Particularly since they're having their own children vaccinated...I guess there's no lower limit to what even decent people can think of their fellow man.

[Johnnycat]

I've heard the debate about vaccines and autism and I don't believe there is a link. I am a huge advocate of vaccines - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. However, I also believe they should be optional and not mandatory. Any responsible parent should opt for them, but I have a real problem with the government thinking they know what's best for me.

I wear my seat belt every time I'm in a car - it saved my life, but I'm against mandatory seat belt laws. I've never smoked and I think smoking is the number one enemy as far as public health is concerned, but I am against the attack on smoking that is going on.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Johnnycat

I've heard the debate about vaccines and autism and I don't believe there is a link. I am a huge advocate of vaccines - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. However, I also believe they should be optional and not mandatory. Any responsible parent should opt for them, but I have a real problem with the government thinking they know what's best for me.
I wear my seat belt every time I'm in a car - it saved my life, but I'm against mandatory seat belt laws. I've never smoked and I think smoking is the number one enemy as far as public health is concerned, but I am against the attack on smoking that is going on.

The problem with making them optional, Johnnycat, is that if not enough people get them it doesn't stop the chain of infection. It isn't just for the good of the person getting the shot, but for the good of everyone else, too.

By the way, one of the more interesting statistics surrounding the autism controversy is that as the number of autism diagnoses climbs steadily, the number of mental retardation diagnoses is dropping just as steadily. I think that may be connected to the fact that in most of the country, it's easier to get financial help, special schooling, etc., for kids with autism than it is for kids who are simply retarded.

[jerry]

There is a reason the political forum failed. Turned this place into quite the urination contest event.

[Johnnycat]

Originally Posted by troy2000

The problem with making them optional, Johnnycat, is that if not enough people get them it doesn't stop the chain of infection. It isn't just for the good of the person getting the shot, but for the good of everyone else, too.

By the way, one of the more interesting statistics surrounding the autism controversy is that as the number of autism diagnoses climbs steadily, the number of mental retardation diagnoses is dropping just as steadily. I think that may be connected to the fact that in most of the country, it's easier to get financial help, special schooling, etc., for kids with autism than it is for kids who are simply retarded.

Actually you're right on both counts. Public health is a tricky one. I remember in med school we had a family that didn't believe in vaccinations and this issue came up. I hate the govenment forcing anything, but the issue to me was that the reasons for not getting the vaccinations were really stupid, like "we're a clean family and therefore won't get any disease", etc. As a parent it would really tick me off if my child was exposed to something because a classmate didn't get a vaccination. It really hurts to say that govenment intrusion is justified, but in this case it probably is. Like I said earlier - I'm a huge fan of vaccinations.

[TexasT]

Well, I tend to agree with Troy. I know he's an evil tyrant but I agree with him sometimes. If you knew what meningitis does to a person then you would jump at the chance to be vaccinated or have your child vaccinated to prevent certain death if they were to ever come into contact with meningitis causing bugs. I also think parents who don't have their children vaccinated are irresponsible. They rely on the fact that all the other kids in the classroom ARE vaccinated and by that reason their child is "safe".

Even if vaccines do cause autism, which I'm not saying they do, but if they did, more ppl are HELPED by vaccines than there are autistic children. Medicine is not perfect. Everyone can't have a perfect result. There's certain "wonder drugs" I simply can't take because I don't tolerate them well. Would I want them off the market just because they give me an adverse reaction? NO! They help many other ppl.

The government should require certain vaccines because quite frankly, some parents are just dumb.

[Cyrano]

T2K, nowhere in my post did I say that vaccines are evil, or a bad thing. What IS evil AND a bad thing is the cavalier excess of vaccines being inflicted on the kids at far too young an age. Their immune systems simply aren't up to dealing with the invader vaccines when they are thrown at them as fequently and in the variety the government is requiring.

Yes, the definition of the autism spectrum has been broadened. But a change in definition alone cannot account for the huge upsurge in diagnosed cases of autism. Also, I reiterate that the Autism Epidemic exists only in the nations that vaccinate until hell wouldn't have it again, way too many diseases, way too fast, and much too casually.

In an effort to reduce the number of shots a child has to get, some "genius" decided to combine measels, mumps and rubella into one single shot. Real intelligent; put the three vaccines children are most likely to react badly to into ONE shot, and then require that they get it THREE TIMES before the age of 5. I have yet to meet a parent whose children did not react badly to that shot. At least a low-grade fever and pain at the injection site; in some cases, going from a normal child to a flat affect and autism within a day. No joke.

Statistics do not tell the whole story, Troy, as you know. You need to get out and talk to some of the parents who saw it happen to their kids just that fast. In genetic autism (the kind Rain Man had), it manifests gradually. In regressive autism (the kind induced by excessive use of vaccines), it can and does often happen within 24 hours of a child receiving the shot. I have witnesses and photos of the before and after.

The only reliable way to determine if it is regressive autism is by very expensive lab tests, which naturally the insurance company will not pay for. The only bright spot is that if it IS regressive autism, it may be fixable. If it's genetic autism, nothing can be done but teaching coping mechanisms to both the victim and the parents.

There, however, a very simple way to prevent regressive autism. That is for the parents to opt out of the insane frequency of inoculations. Instead of the kids getting shot up every couple of months, cut it back to one vaccine every six months; and do not administer the measles vaccine before the age of 8 at all. Yes, this would provide the potential for a child coming down with some disease he hasn't been inoculated against yet. But it would also insure that children are not damaged by the attempt to protect them from what in my opinion are diseases that should not require inoculations.

Furthermore, although the public education establishment, the medical establishment and Big Pharma won't go out of their way to advise parents of this, it IS legal to refuse to vaccinate children; and provided the correct form is on file with the school district, the school district cannot refuse them admission to public school. Parents can opt out either for religious reasons, e.g., Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses, both of which sects have unconventional views on medicine; or if the child has a history of adverse reactions to vaccines, as my son does. The school systems don't like it, but the law says they have to accept it. Frankly, I'd rather take a chance on my son coming down with chickenpox than his getting worse because some numskull bureaucrat insists on adhering to the current, insane vaccination schedule that is one-size-hurts-all.

[troy2000]

I'm going to defer to you on this one instead of continuing to argue, Cyrano. While I honestly believe the autism-vaccination link is tenuous at best and calls for healthy skepticism, I'm no medical expert. Nor have I studied the subject at length, as you have for obvious reasons.

You have my best wishes for your child.

[Deersniper]

Sounds like a Jim Jones cool aid thing to me.

[Reddbecca]

I'm only gonna say this once. If anybody, anybody, tries to force me or mine to be innoculated for any reason, they WILL be met with the immediate and very real possbility and threat of deadly force.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by troy2000

I'm going to defer to you on this one instead of continuing to argue, Cyrano. While I honestly believe the autism-vaccination link is tenuous at best and calls for healthy skepticism, I'm no medical expert. Nor have I studied the subject at length, as you have for obvious reasons.

You have my best wishes for your child.

Thanks very much, Troy. We're doing the best we can for him. I just hope it will be enough - and live in fear that it won't be.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Reddbecca

I'm only gonna say this once. If anybody, anybody, tries to force me or mine to be innoculated for any reason, they WILL be met with the immediate and very real possbility and threat of deadly force.

Oh, lighten up a little. What are you going to do? Shoot people and go to prison? The first thing they'll do with your kid after you're gone and he becomes a ward of the Court is make sure he has his shots...

There are ways to avoid vaccinations if you really want to, but threatening violence isn't what'll do it.