M1 Garand ID

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 01:31 PM

Hello Fellas: I am glad to find you fellas.....Just aquired a M1 Garand, and sad to say, serial # behind sight is completely filed off!!! How sad, I really need to wonder why do this to such a piece history.......Anyway, Is there anway besides serial # to ID gun, or at least get good idea of year, or manufacturer????? Thanks!!!!!

Mooseman684 · 02-09-2008, 01:35 PM

If the serial Number has been filed off you have AN ILLEGAL WEAPON !!!
Probably stolen...and It Violates Federal Law.
Rich

oldjarhead · 02-09-2008, 01:41 PM

First...Why in the world would you buy a firearm that had the serial number filed down? That in itself is an indicator that the weapon may be stolen. You really don't want to get caught with any weapon that has the serial number modified in any way. Some rare prototypes may not be serialized but those will not show file marks.

Second...there should be numbers on the barrel, usually near the muzzle, that will give you an idea when it was made.

Third...Personally, I would take it back to whomever I got it from and get my money back. Let them deal with the filed serial number.

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 03:14 PM

Man......For being the friendliest forum on the net, that's almost laughable. When did I state I purchased the gun??? My wifes father passed on, this was in cabinet. Was told it was his grandfathers in the war, but I just wanted a little more info? Maybe true, maybe not. Who knows when/who messed with #? I'm almost positive other guns may have had # damaged/removed.

Ben Hartley · 02-09-2008, 03:36 PM

Hi, Wirenut...

Well, actually, we are a pretty friendly bunch, 'cept some of us (myself included) get a bit paranoid when dealing with what may be an illegal firearm. At first blush, the M1 you describe fits that category. (And please, don't tell anybody else about it!)

Identification: drop the action out of the stock, and look at the right front receiver "leg" -- the part hidden by the stock when the rifle's assembled.

You should find a number something like: D28291. That's the receiver drawing number. There may be some other numerals and letters on the same line, and some more stamped immediately underneath; post all of those numbers and letters here, and it is maybe possible to give you a good guess as to maker and year of manufacture. Maybe. If you're wearing green britches and in your right mind. And if you want anything further to do with us unfriendly types.

Hope this helps

Ben Hartley

Mooseman684 · 02-09-2008, 04:16 PM

Sorry if you think we are Not friendly, but facts are facts regardless of who had the gun or how you got it, since you didn't elaborate your original post, you "acquired it" you did not say "Inherited it"... It is still a Violation of Federal Law to possess a Gun that has had the serial Number removed or Altered...There is NO allowances for this under the Law...Period. Is it worth 10 years in prison and a $10,000.00 fine ???? Just a Friendly Warning, and if you don't believe me you can see the Law as written on the internet if you google it...
Rich

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 04:25 PM

I understand peoples paranoia, cause you really never know who you are dealing with. So sorry if I came across short or my words an a-hole. just like this old arm......Father in-law was kinda a hillbilly, god rest his sole. But why file #'s off seems odd. I did beleive him when he stated it was a long last relative from wars past, so how he got it home seems strange or just striaght B.S. Or am I just looking in wrong spot on firearm, and just don't know what I'm talking about???

Tang #D28287-126A
S-B7(Then diamond symbol)

Thanks.......

Will keep lurking and learning from you folks!!!

Mooseman684 · 02-09-2008, 04:31 PM

It MAY have been stolen from the Military and somebody tried to cover it up, Years ago...who Knows ???? BATFE Doesn't care who did it...Just that it's Illegal Now !!!
Is there any Makers Markings or anything on the rear of the receiver where the Manufacturer and Serial Number should be ???
Rich

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 04:43 PM

Nope: No number to be found on rear of receiver, only tang #'s......Could be odd duck or ???? No markings, nothin......

Ben Hartley · 02-09-2008, 05:18 PM

Hi, again...

You provided these numbers:

Tang #D28287-126A
S-B7(Then diamond symbol)

"D29287-126A" doesn't match any reference I have. Could it be "D28291-12SA?" That drawing number indicates a Springfield Armory -- the ISGI one -- rifle in the SN 280,001 through SN 350,000 range, and made during the period June through September, 1941. Absent the serial number, it's impossible to get any closer on the date. For what it's worth, "28291" appears in some form or other on every USGI M1 receiver, including those from civilian contractors.

If the rifle's been butchered to the point of having the serial number filed/ground off, I'd be real hesitant about shooting it. And whatever you do, don't try to sell the thing!

Not much help, but best I can do. Sorry.

Ben Hartley

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 05:53 PM

Ben: Thanks for trying.....It was a long shot....Nah won't shoot it, like fishing and phesant hunting way too much. Double chkd tang: D28287-12SA S-B7 (Diamond)

Thanks anyway....

Ben Hartley · 02-09-2008, 06:16 PM

Hold the, I say, Hold the Phone!

Went hunting in some of the more esoteric references, and found that "D28287-12SA" is the drawing number for a Springfield BOLT in the 550,000 through 3,200,000 serial number range.

"D28291" won't appear on the bolt; it's on the receiver. It'll be on the receiver lug that sticks down to the left of the word "grease" in this drawing, the uppermost drawing, that is.

Now, I'll bet an M2 ball cartridge case, that you'll find "28291" there. Again, if you'll post the number you find, we might be able to pinpoint the manufacturer. The year, I'm afraid, is pretty problematical, but we can but try.

HTH

Ben Hartley

wirenut2266 · 02-09-2008, 07:47 PM

Ben: When time permits On Sunday will Take a look in that location, Thanks! Will shoot you # then.

M14man · 02-09-2008, 09:02 PM

Wirenut, we are trying to protect you. Doesn't matter who removed the serial, and when, or how or why. Federal law indicates it is a Federal felony to be in possession of a firearm which has a defaced/altered serial number. Hand-me-downs, and it's been that way; is no excuse in the eyes of the law. A lawyer will cost you 5 times the value of the gun. Strip it of parts and destroy it. If you want to keep it, weld it shut.

Shaun · 02-09-2008, 11:18 PM

I second the idea of stripping it and then disposing of the receiver. you can always buy another receiver at a good price

Dookiebutt · 02-10-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M14man

Wirenut, we are trying to protect you. Doesn't matter who removed the serial, and when, or how or why. Federal law indicates it is a Federal felony to be in possession of a firearm which has a defaced/altered serial number. Hand-me-downs, and it's been that way; is no excuse in the eyes of the law. A lawyer will cost you 5 times the value of the gun. Strip it of parts and destroy it. If you want to keep it, weld it shut.

Not to play devil's advocate, but why can CMP sell rifles with altered serial numbers? Numbers and letters were added, serial numbers ground off and restamped. How can that be?

wirenut2266 · 02-10-2008, 09:47 AM

Fellas: Weapon will not be shot, just want try and narrow down ID for my own knowledge. It will be a wall hanger in basement with a few others. I will give to a welder/machinist friend of mine, and have him run a few beads (try to hide) so it will be in-operable.

I understand good natured folks intentions here, no I am not a law breaker. So hopefully welding receiver shut should make it legal to own with altered #'s. Thanks.......

Mooseman684 · 02-10-2008, 01:09 PM

Wirenut,
Please listen carefully. Your gun still has value since it is complete with an altered receiver...Welding it up does nothing as far as legality, now you have destroyed value as well and still Have an Illegal Weapon, even though it is non operable. The BATFE classes the Receiver as the gun itself...Nothing else. Your gun can be a legal, Firing, Sellable Weapon IF you buy another receiver that is numbered, and have all of your parts put on the new receiver.
What you MUST do is disassemble the gun completely, remove the trigger assy, the bolt, op rod, all the small components, pins, sight, etc. Then cut the receiver either with a torch or a Chop saw into 3 pieces thru the Magazine well , behind the barrel, leaving enough of the front so that the barrel can be removed (it Unscrews). You now have a Garand Parts Kit that can be built into a fine rifle, by purchasing a Legal Receiver and having it built. You can also Sell the parts kit for a good sum if you don't want to have a gun built.
For a few Hundred bucks you can have a Great shooting Legal Rifle , or you can make 300-400 dollars selling the parts kit and put that towards another Rifle.
There are a lot of Garand Rebuilders that will do the work , setting the barrel and Headspace being the most difficult part, the rest is installing the parts properly and re-assembling the rifle.
My advice is from years of Gunsmithing and knowing the Laws, and we here at G&G are trying to Help you...You are the person that has something to gain from all this if you do it Right. Whatever Course you choose....
Rich

pajones1972 · 02-10-2008, 01:22 PM

I have purchased an HRA Garand and am trying to get all the parts correct for HRA. There are three that I need to get to do so. One of the three is the barrel. The other two are the operating rod and trigger group.

I am not sure, also met some dealers who deal solely with Garands, and they were either in regards to the numbering on the barrel.

The id info: S A 6535448 2 65 Y75 D (or could be a P) M * (this represents a star)

Can some let me know if this is actually a HRA barrel? The rifle was reworked in 1965 at Rock Island.

Thanks,

Paul Jones

Also, if anyone knows where I can get the HRA items I would appreciate it.

Mooseman684 · 02-10-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pajones1972

I have purchased an HRA Garand and am trying to get all the parts correct for HRA. There are three that I need to get to do so. One of the three is the barrel. The other two are the operating rod and trigger group.
I am not sure, also met some dealers who deal solely with Garands, and they were either in regards to the numbering on the barrel.
The id info: S A 6535448 2 65 Y75 D (or could be a P) M * (this represents a star)
Can some let me know if this is actually a HRA barrel? The rifle was reworked in 1965 at Rock Island.
Thanks,
Paul Jones
Also, if anyone knows where I can get the HRA items I would appreciate it.

Paul
The "S A" indicates Springfield Armory Barrel.
I would check with SARCO, Numrich parts, Riverbank Armory, etc for an HRA barrel and Parts...Get a Copy of Shotgun News and look in there as well...
Rich

02-09-2008, 01:31 PM	#1
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	M1 Garand ID Hello Fellas: I am glad to find you fellas.....Just aquired a M1 Garand, and sad to say, serial # behind sight is completely filed off!!! How sad, I really need to wonder why do this to such a piece history.......Anyway, Is there anway besides serial # to ID gun, or at least get good idea of year, or manufacturer????? Thanks!!!!!

02-09-2008, 01:35 PM	#2
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,599 Images: 2	If the serial Number has been filed off you have AN ILLEGAL WEAPON !!! Probably stolen...and It Violates Federal Law. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-09-2008, 03:36 PM	#5
Ben Hartley Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire Posts: 150	Garand ID Hi, Wirenut... Well, actually, we are a pretty friendly bunch, 'cept some of us (myself included) get a bit paranoid when dealing with what may be an illegal firearm. At first blush, the M1 you describe fits that category. (And please, don't tell anybody else about it!) Identification: drop the action out of the stock, and look at the right front receiver "leg" -- the part hidden by the stock when the rifle's assembled. You should find a number something like: D28291. That's the receiver drawing number. There may be some other numerals and letters on the same line, and some more stamped immediately underneath; post all of those numbers and letters here, and it is maybe possible to give you a good guess as to maker and year of manufacture. Maybe. If you're wearing green britches and in your right mind. And if you want anything further to do with us unfriendly types. Hope this helps Ben Hartley

02-09-2008, 04:16 PM	#6
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,599 Images: 2	Sorry if you think we are Not friendly, but facts are facts regardless of who had the gun or how you got it, since you didn't elaborate your original post, you "acquired it" you did not say "Inherited it"... It is still a Violation of Federal Law to possess a Gun that has had the serial Number removed or Altered...There is NO allowances for this under the Law...Period. Is it worth 10 years in prison and a $10,000.00 fine ???? Just a Friendly Warning, and if you don't believe me you can see the Law as written on the internet if you google it... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-09-2008, 04:25 PM	#7
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	TANG'S I understand peoples paranoia, cause you really never know who you are dealing with. So sorry if I came across short or my words an a-hole. just like this old arm......Father in-law was kinda a hillbilly, god rest his sole. But why file #'s off seems odd. I did beleive him when he stated it was a long last relative from wars past, so how he got it home seems strange or just striaght B.S. Or am I just looking in wrong spot on firearm, and just don't know what I'm talking about??? Tang #D28287-126A S-B7(Then diamond symbol) Thanks....... Will keep lurking and learning from you folks!!! Last edited by wirenut2266; 02-09-2008 at 04:28 PM.

02-09-2008, 01:41 PM	#3
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mansfield, MO Posts: 919	First...Why in the world would you buy a firearm that had the serial number filed down? That in itself is an indicator that the weapon may be stolen. You really don't want to get caught with any weapon that has the serial number modified in any way. Some rare prototypes may not be serialized but those will not show file marks. Second...there should be numbers on the barrel, usually near the muzzle, that will give you an idea when it was made. Third...Personally, I would take it back to whomever I got it from and get my money back. Let them deal with the filed serial number.

02-09-2008, 03:14 PM	#4
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Man......For being the friendliest forum on the net, that's almost laughable. When did I state I purchased the gun??? My wifes father passed on, this was in cabinet. Was told it was his grandfathers in the war, but I just wanted a little more info? Maybe true, maybe not. Who knows when/who messed with #? I'm almost positive other guns may have had # damaged/removed.

02-09-2008, 04:31 PM	#8
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,599 Images: 2	It MAY have been stolen from the Military and somebody tried to cover it up, Years ago...who Knows ???? BATFE Doesn't care who did it...Just that it's Illegal Now !!! Is there any Makers Markings or anything on the rear of the receiver where the Manufacturer and Serial Number should be ??? Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! Last edited by Mooseman684; 02-09-2008 at 04:34 PM.

02-09-2008, 04:43 PM	#9
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Nope: No number to be found on rear of receiver, only tang #'s......Could be odd duck or ???? No markings, nothin......

02-09-2008, 05:18 PM	#10
Ben Hartley Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire Posts: 150	Garand ID Hi, again... You provided these numbers: Tang #D28287-126A S-B7(Then diamond symbol) "D29287-126A" doesn't match any reference I have. Could it be "D28291-12SA?" That drawing number indicates a Springfield Armory -- the ISGI one -- rifle in the SN 280,001 through SN 350,000 range, and made during the period June through September, 1941. Absent the serial number, it's impossible to get any closer on the date. For what it's worth, "28291" appears in some form or other on every USGI M1 receiver, including those from civilian contractors. If the rifle's been butchered to the point of having the serial number filed/ground off, I'd be real hesitant about shooting it. And whatever you do, don't try to sell the thing! Not much help, but best I can do. Sorry. Ben Hartley

02-09-2008, 05:53 PM	#11
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Ben: Thanks for trying.....It was a long shot....Nah won't shoot it, like fishing and phesant hunting way too much. Double chkd tang: D28287-12SA S-B7 (Diamond) Thanks anyway....

02-09-2008, 06:16 PM	#12
Ben Hartley Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire Posts: 150	All Isn't Lost... Hold the, I say, Hold the Phone! Went hunting in some of the more esoteric references, and found that "D28287-12SA" is the drawing number for a Springfield BOLT in the 550,000 through 3,200,000 serial number range. "D28291" won't appear on the bolt; it's on the receiver. It'll be on the receiver lug that sticks down to the left of the word "grease" in this drawing, the uppermost drawing, that is. Now, I'll bet an M2 ball cartridge case, that you'll find "28291" there. Again, if you'll post the number you find, we might be able to pinpoint the manufacturer. The year, I'm afraid, is pretty problematical, but we can but try. HTH Ben Hartley

02-09-2008, 07:47 PM	#13
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Number..... Ben: When time permits On Sunday will Take a look in that location, Thanks! Will shoot you # then.

02-09-2008, 09:02 PM	#14
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 567 Images: 10	Wirenut, we are trying to protect you. Doesn't matter who removed the serial, and when, or how or why. Federal law indicates it is a Federal felony to be in possession of a firearm which has a defaced/altered serial number. Hand-me-downs, and it's been that way; is no excuse in the eyes of the law. A lawyer will cost you 5 times the value of the gun. Strip it of parts and destroy it. If you want to keep it, weld it shut.

02-09-2008, 11:18 PM	#15
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,623 Images: 1	I second the idea of stripping it and then disposing of the receiver. you can always buy another receiver at a good price __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-10-2008, 09:47 AM	#17
wirenut2266 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Fellas: Weapon will not be shot, just want try and narrow down ID for my own knowledge. It will be a wall hanger in basement with a few others. I will give to a welder/machinist friend of mine, and have him run a few beads (try to hide) so it will be in-operable. I understand good natured folks intentions here, no I am not a law breaker. So hopefully welding receiver shut should make it legal to own with altered #'s. Thanks.......

02-10-2008, 01:09 PM	#18
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,599 Images: 2	Wirenut, Please listen carefully. Your gun still has value since it is complete with an altered receiver...Welding it up does nothing as far as legality, now you have destroyed value as well and still Have an Illegal Weapon, even though it is non operable. The BATFE classes the Receiver as the gun itself...Nothing else. Your gun can be a legal, Firing, Sellable Weapon IF you buy another receiver that is numbered, and have all of your parts put on the new receiver. What you MUST do is disassemble the gun completely, remove the trigger assy, the bolt, op rod, all the small components, pins, sight, etc. Then cut the receiver either with a torch or a Chop saw into 3 pieces thru the Magazine well , behind the barrel, leaving enough of the front so that the barrel can be removed (it Unscrews). You now have a Garand Parts Kit that can be built into a fine rifle, by purchasing a Legal Receiver and having it built. You can also Sell the parts kit for a good sum if you don't want to have a gun built. For a few Hundred bucks you can have a Great shooting Legal Rifle , or you can make 300-400 dollars selling the parts kit and put that towards another Rifle. There are a lot of Garand Rebuilders that will do the work , setting the barrel and Headspace being the most difficult part, the rest is installing the parts properly and re-assembling the rifle. My advice is from years of Gunsmithing and knowing the Laws, and we here at G&G are trying to Help you...You are the person that has something to gain from all this if you do it Right. Whatever Course you choose.... Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

02-10-2008, 01:22 PM	#19
pajones1972 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2	HRA Garand I have purchased an HRA Garand and am trying to get all the parts correct for HRA. There are three that I need to get to do so. One of the three is the barrel. The other two are the operating rod and trigger group. I am not sure, also met some dealers who deal solely with Garands, and they were either in regards to the numbering on the barrel. The id info: S A 6535448 2 65 Y75 D (or could be a P) M * (this represents a star) Can some let me know if this is actually a HRA barrel? The rifle was reworked in 1965 at Rock Island. Thanks, Paul Jones Also, if anyone knows where I can get the HRA items I would appreciate it.