My personal choice of survival guns...

Cleankill47 · 01-13-2008, 04:37 PM

Originally I had put this as a reply to a question of a .22 in a survival situation, but I see that this type of question is more frequent throughout all of the subtopics, so I'll put it here as my own thread starter.

First of all, addressing the thought of having a .22LR/.223/any such caliber rifle AND pistol; Having two survival weapons of different types in the same caliber would be redundant.

It makes sense to carry two weapons, of course, but to maximize effectiveness, two separate calibers would be more reasonable.

My suggestions for survival living would be a .30-30 lever action rifle of a reliable make and model, and a good-quality .22/.22 magnum convertible revolver.

Note: if you are in long-range territory, or in an area up north where much larger game are the norm, you would probably choose a longer-range, flatter-shooting, harder-hitting cartridge/rifle combination. In that case, I would say a good bolt-action .30-06, .308, or the like would do you no wrong.

My reasoning for the above are as follows:

The .30-30 has taken all manner of North American mainland game, even grizzly bears, elk, and moose. In a survival situation, you want big game, not so much small game, because you want the most energy (calories) for your effort. If you shoot 6 squirrels in an hour that weigh 2 pounds apiece, giving you 12 pounds of meat that is lean, having virtually no fat, which is necessary to survival. As opposed to the same hour used to shoot 1 round of .30-30 at a deer, which will provide roughly 150 pounds of meat, depending on your regional location and the type of deer you are after.

Don't forget you can take that same rifle on the same hunt for deer and shoot a black bear or wild hog should you see one, and you still have the revolver on your hip to allow you to get the squirrels, rabbits, doves, and groundhogs on your way to where the deer dropped and on the way back to camp; see where I'm going with all this?

Another few reasons for the .22 are that, while a rifle is a highly desirable thing to have, without training you will most likely not carry it wherever you go. It helps to have something with you all the time, and a good revolver will be so comfortable you won't want it off. You can use it for any manner of small game, and even larger game, given a good opporitunity and a clear shot.

Plus, the extra cylinder allowing the use of .22 mag is a great advantage, since the cartridge is a lot flatter, allowing for good shots out to 60-75 yards with sufficient practice, and even further, if you find you have a knack for it. You will be able to use the .22 mag on significantly larger or tougher (small-to medium-) game, like raccoons, whose meat, roasted, provides a mind-boggling 2200-2600 calories per pound. As well as foxes, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, and the like, whose pelts are useful as well as beautiful and could be used in making clothing (like mittens or hats) as well as for trade.

My reason for the handgun choice being a revolver is because with virtually any .22 autoloader, you have only the choice of .22 Long Rifle, and will not always cycle with subsonic rounds, whereas the revolver will chamber and fire all short, long, long rifle, cb longs and shorts, low-velocity, hypervelocity, whatever, giving you a much better chance of finding compatible ammo in a situation where you have to scrounge supplies from another location.

I wouldn't really suggest a shotgun as a mainstay survival weapon, simply because of the weight of the ammunition and the fact that the shells are so bulky; carrying as many rounds of a 12-gauge as you would a .30-30 would be a difference of about 30 pounds, and you don't want extra weight in any form, add on to that the fact of how much space it takes to store large quantities of shotshells and you'll see that it may not be the best choice...

You could also use the .30-30 with more effectiveness against maniacs, thieves, and the like, as opposed to just a .22 rifle.

Also, for these types of situations, it helps not to be so limiting in your thoughts. Sure, if you have time, grab your break-action 12-gauge, your .357 Magnum and your Glock. You must be able to think about all possible outcomes...

357maxm · 01-14-2008, 08:13 PM

I will agree with your statements. I have a Marlin 1894 44 mag. and a Ruger .22LR/.22mag hunter - both in stainless steel. That is a good combo. A good 30-30 (marlin 336 in stainless) is a good way to go also.

I have a scout (AO systems) scope rail on my marlin with a nikon 2-8x32 eer scope with a williams peep sight, plus a heavy sling. The Ruger hunter has a simmons 2-7x32 scope on it and fits into a heavy shoulder holster. Makes for good hunting

Cleankill47 · 01-15-2008, 09:22 PM

Thanks, 357.

Another thing I forgot to mention is the importance of snares. Actual, well-made snares, not snare wire, which I see mentioned so much on this type of forum. Yes, it is important to have wire, but it is more important to have 14 gauge, or, even better, #9 wire, as well as some cheap electrical tape to set up your real snares than it is to have just thin wire for catching small game.

The reasoning for this is simple:

Thin wire snares break, and they only catch very small game. (Squirrels, rabbits, etc.)

Why focus on squirrels and such when you could catch raccoons and beavers, which are a much better source of fat and calories, which is more of a priority in a survival situation?

With the right cable and locking mechanism, you can even catch hogs and deer. (NOTE: Snaring deer is ILLEGAL throughout the entire United States unless caught in a dire emergency in which procurement of meat is a necessity to your survival)

Note for those bent on rabbit as a mainstay: Rabbit meat is actually so lean that it can actually use more energy than you get from it, so a diet of nothing but rabbit meat may cause you to starve. You must supplement rabbit with some kind of other meat and/or vegetables, legumes, and other sources of protein.

Okay, back to the main point...

A thin, wrapped-wire snare catching anything larger than a big rabbit will inevitably wind up twisted and broken, wrapped around surrounding vegetation, leaving you wondering what kind of absolute beast went through the area. If you use actual aircraft cable snares, you will catch and hold most anything that trips them unless the animal is pretty large...

The best 'universal' cable is 3/32 inch aircraft grade cable, it's used to catch everything up to the smaller northeastern wolves.

For survival uses, it is best to get about a dozen assorted snares to start off, so that you can see how everything is put together, then get a spool of the cable you plan on using, and the parts you need for whatever snares you plan to make from a trapping company that carries them, that way you don't run out of snares in the middle of your crisis.

And that's part 2..

All I could think of for now...

SwedeSteve · 02-11-2008, 08:33 AM

Very good points CK47! I would like to add that your comment about rabbit being so lean is true, but its not protein you're looking for, rather animal fat. Just a small note. All game meat has animal fat in varying degrees. Unfortunately, not much is striated in the meat. Storage of fat is a problem as it goes rancid rather quickly. Don't overlook milk in your search for fat sources, as well as fish oils for needed requirements.

ArkansasHunter · 02-11-2008, 08:37 AM

My personal choice fer a survival gun would be one of the guns I own.
Which one ? The one that survives what ever we is survive'in of course !!!...A.H

andrew cochran · 02-11-2008, 02:20 PM

I like that one AH! So true!

SwedeSteve · 02-11-2008, 05:23 PM

Really boils down to what happened, and watcha gonna do. Rambo it! In which case you're gonna die anyway! Or get your @$$ in the woods and survive!

mym1a · 02-11-2008, 05:45 PM

i'm sure most us have more guns then we could carry lol a rifle shot gun over and under and a side arm ?

teenagegunwacho · 02-11-2008, 06:14 PM

Rambo it! In which case you're gonna die anyway!

I dont get it

damage855 · 02-12-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

i'm sure most us have more guns then we could carry lol a rifle shot gun over and under and a side arm ?

I have noticed that problem myself often a trip to the range requires atleast three to four loads from the house to the truck with guns and ammo.

Cleankill47 · 02-17-2008, 03:55 PM

That's why you have the weapons and ammunition of your choosing set up for a quick getaway, and it helps to already have ammo, food, clothing, containers, etc. in your bugout bag, so that you can do more than run a little ways and sit down & pant because you've got so much stuff.

It's good to take trips to the woods with a little less than you usually take. I was taught that to truly survive means to go out into the wild with nothing but a knife, if that, since you can make knives, bow & arrows, shelters, fires, clothing, pots, bowls, backrests, boxes, and all manner of other things with what you catch out in the wild that you don't really need a whole lot except what would make your stay easier. For example, learn to make a debris hut, or, infinitely better, a wickiup. Then, instead of taking a tent and sleeping bag, just take an ultralight sleeping bag to make it slightly more comfortable in your shelter (if you even need it).

01-13-2008, 04:37 PM	#1
Cleankill47 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 73	My personal choice of survival guns... Originally I had put this as a reply to a question of a .22 in a survival situation, but I see that this type of question is more frequent throughout all of the subtopics, so I'll put it here as my own thread starter. First of all, addressing the thought of having a .22LR/.223/any such caliber rifle AND pistol; Having two survival weapons of different types in the same caliber would be redundant. It makes sense to carry two weapons, of course, but to maximize effectiveness, two separate calibers would be more reasonable. My suggestions for survival living would be a .30-30 lever action rifle of a reliable make and model, and a good-quality .22/.22 magnum convertible revolver. Note: if you are in long-range territory, or in an area up north where much larger game are the norm, you would probably choose a longer-range, flatter-shooting, harder-hitting cartridge/rifle combination. In that case, I would say a good bolt-action .30-06, .308, or the like would do you no wrong. My reasoning for the above are as follows: The .30-30 has taken all manner of North American mainland game, even grizzly bears, elk, and moose. In a survival situation, you want big game, not so much small game, because you want the most energy (calories) for your effort. If you shoot 6 squirrels in an hour that weigh 2 pounds apiece, giving you 12 pounds of meat that is lean, having virtually no fat, which is necessary to survival. As opposed to the same hour used to shoot 1 round of .30-30 at a deer, which will provide roughly 150 pounds of meat, depending on your regional location and the type of deer you are after. Don't forget you can take that same rifle on the same hunt for deer and shoot a black bear or wild hog should you see one, and you still have the revolver on your hip to allow you to get the squirrels, rabbits, doves, and groundhogs on your way to where the deer dropped and on the way back to camp; see where I'm going with all this? Another few reasons for the .22 are that, while a rifle is a highly desirable thing to have, without training you will most likely not carry it wherever you go. It helps to have something with you all the time, and a good revolver will be so comfortable you won't want it off. You can use it for any manner of small game, and even larger game, given a good opporitunity and a clear shot. Plus, the extra cylinder allowing the use of .22 mag is a great advantage, since the cartridge is a lot flatter, allowing for good shots out to 60-75 yards with sufficient practice, and even further, if you find you have a knack for it. You will be able to use the .22 mag on significantly larger or tougher (small-to medium-) game, like raccoons, whose meat, roasted, provides a mind-boggling 2200-2600 calories per pound. As well as foxes, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, and the like, whose pelts are useful as well as beautiful and could be used in making clothing (like mittens or hats) as well as for trade. My reason for the handgun choice being a revolver is because with virtually any .22 autoloader, you have only the choice of .22 Long Rifle, and will not always cycle with subsonic rounds, whereas the revolver will chamber and fire all short, long, long rifle, cb longs and shorts, low-velocity, hypervelocity, whatever, giving you a much better chance of finding compatible ammo in a situation where you have to scrounge supplies from another location. I wouldn't really suggest a shotgun as a mainstay survival weapon, simply because of the weight of the ammunition and the fact that the shells are so bulky; carrying as many rounds of a 12-gauge as you would a .30-30 would be a difference of about 30 pounds, and you don't want extra weight in any form, add on to that the fact of how much space it takes to store large quantities of shotshells and you'll see that it may not be the best choice... You could also use the .30-30 with more effectiveness against maniacs, thieves, and the like, as opposed to just a .22 rifle. Also, for these types of situations, it helps not to be so limiting in your thoughts. Sure, if you have time, grab your break-action 12-gauge, your .357 Magnum and your Glock. You must be able to think about all possible outcomes...

01-14-2008, 08:13 PM	#2
357maxm Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 37	.22 pistol & 30-30.. a good combo I will agree with your statements. I have a Marlin 1894 44 mag. and a Ruger .22LR/.22mag hunter - both in stainless steel. That is a good combo. A good 30-30 (marlin 336 in stainless) is a good way to go also. I have a scout (AO systems) scope rail on my marlin with a nikon 2-8x32 eer scope with a williams peep sight, plus a heavy sling. The Ruger hunter has a simmons 2-7x32 scope on it and fits into a heavy shoulder holster. Makes for good hunting

02-11-2008, 08:33 AM	#4
SwedeSteve Thor's Hammer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 10,372 Images: 1	Very good points CK47! I would like to add that your comment about rabbit being so lean is true, but its not protein you're looking for, rather animal fat. Just a small note. All game meat has animal fat in varying degrees. Unfortunately, not much is striated in the meat. Storage of fat is a problem as it goes rancid rather quickly. Don't overlook milk in your search for fat sources, as well as fish oils for needed requirements. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

02-11-2008, 02:20 PM	#6
andrew cochran Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Little town in ARKANSAW! Posts: 2,155	I like that one AH! So true! __________________ If you don't have anything good to say... Don't say it!

02-11-2008, 05:23 PM	#7
SwedeSteve Thor's Hammer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alaska Posts: 10,372 Images: 1	Really boils down to what happened, and watcha gonna do. Rambo it! In which case you're gonna die anyway! Or get your @$$ in the woods and survive! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

01-15-2008, 09:22 PM	#3
Cleankill47 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 73	Thanks, 357. Another thing I forgot to mention is the importance of snares. Actual, well-made snares, not snare wire, which I see mentioned so much on this type of forum. Yes, it is important to have wire, but it is more important to have 14 gauge, or, even better, #9 wire, as well as some cheap electrical tape to set up your real snares than it is to have just thin wire for catching small game. The reasoning for this is simple: Thin wire snares break, and they only catch very small game. (Squirrels, rabbits, etc.) Why focus on squirrels and such when you could catch raccoons and beavers, which are a much better source of fat and calories, which is more of a priority in a survival situation? With the right cable and locking mechanism, you can even catch hogs and deer. *(NOTE: Snaring deer is ILLEGAL* throughout the entire United States unless caught in a dire emergency in which procurement of meat is a necessity to your survival) Note for those bent on rabbit as a mainstay: Rabbit meat is actually so lean that it can actually use more energy than you get from it, so a diet of nothing but rabbit meat may cause you to starve. You must supplement rabbit with some kind of other meat and/or vegetables, legumes, and other sources of protein. Okay, back to the main point... A thin, wrapped-wire snare catching anything larger than a big rabbit will inevitably wind up twisted and broken, wrapped around surrounding vegetation, leaving you wondering what kind of absolute beast went through the area. If you use actual aircraft cable snares, you will catch and hold most anything that trips them unless the animal is pretty large... The best 'universal' cable is 3/32 inch aircraft grade cable, it's used to catch everything up to the smaller northeastern wolves. For survival uses, it is best to get about a dozen assorted snares to start off, so that you can see how everything is put together, then get a spool of the cable you plan on using, and the parts you need for whatever snares you plan to make from a trapping company that carries them, that way you don't run out of snares in the middle of your crisis. And that's part 2.. All I could think of for now...

02-11-2008, 08:37 AM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,709	My personal choice fer a survival gun would be one of the guns I own. Which one ? The one that survives what ever we is survive'in of course !!!...A.H

02-11-2008, 05:45 PM	#8
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	i'm sure most us have more guns then we could carry lol a rifle shot gun over and under and a side arm ?

02-11-2008, 06:14 PM	#9
teenagegunwacho Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The South Posts: 123	Rambo it! In which case you're gonna die anyway! I dont get it

02-17-2008, 03:55 PM	#11
Cleankill47 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 73	That's why you have the weapons and ammunition of your choosing set up for a quick getaway, and it helps to already have ammo, food, clothing, containers, etc. in your bugout bag, so that you can do more than run a little ways and sit down & pant because you've got so much stuff. It's good to take trips to the woods with a little less than you usually take. I was taught that to truly survive means to go out into the wild with nothing but a knife, if that, since you can make knives, bow & arrows, shelters, fires, clothing, pots, bowls, backrests, boxes, and all manner of other things with what you catch out in the wild that you don't really need a whole lot except what would make your stay easier. For example, learn to make a debris hut, or, infinitely better, a wickiup. Then, instead of taking a tent and sleeping bag, just take an ultralight sleeping bag to make it slightly more comfortable in your shelter (if you even need it).