Arming a Bannana Republic

[knightRider]

Fals like you see now are way diff , now the l1a1 is close to the cetme in some ways , but Fals like you see being built or way diff.

1. they dont use the cetme style cocking lever handle
2. most have shortend gas systems
3. cetmes cant change the amount of gas like fals

just a couple diff

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by knightRider

Fals like you see now are way diff , now the l1a1 is close to the cetme in some ways , but Fals like you see being built or way diff.

1. they dont use the cetme style cocking lever handle
2. most have shortend gas systems
3. cetmes cant change the amount of gas like fals

just a couple diff

you are right they are different, FAL has more improvements but they are improvements off of a centme. I apologize for saying they were the same, there are some parts that are interchangeable but not as much as I thought.

[Kodiak32]

meatloaf, could you be confusing a G1 with a G3?

The FN Fal is often mentioned as a direct descendant of the Belgian SAFN 49 rifle. The first FN FAL was submitted to Britian for testing in 1948. The Spanish company which designed and produced the CETME, wasnt formed until 1949.

The Cetme is based on a German world war 2 design Stg 54(m), which was never produced. I have read where the design was based on the Stg44, the same designer that helped develop the Cetme is mentioned with both ww2 German designs.

The part I think might be causing the confusion is the German designation of the rifle. G1 is a Beligium made FN FAL from 1956 to 1959. G3 is the German HK production of the CETME from 1959 to 1995, with various modifications.

FN FAL and it's variants have some parts interchagability, no parts interchagability with the CETME or its variants. CETME and G3 have some parts interchangiability.

Some Fal variants:
G1 (GERMANY)-L1A1 (BRITAN)-STG58 (AUSTRIA),anywhere from 70 to 90 countries used the FN FAL, or a variant as a MBR.

The main CETME variant:
G3 (Germany), around 50 countries used the G3 / CETME variant as a MBR.

As you can see due to their mixed history and wide spread use, these rifles often get confused, but the designs and parts are totaly different.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by Kodiak32

meatloaf, could you be confusing a G1 with a G3?

The FN Fal is often mentioned as a direct descendant of the Belgian SAFN 49 rifle. The first FN FAL was submitted to Britian for testing in 1948. The Spanish company which designed and produced the CETME, wasnt formed until 1949.

The Cetme is based on a German world war 2 design Stg 54(m), which was never produced. I have read where the design was based on the Stg44, the same designer that helped develop the Cetme is mentioned with both ww2 German designs.

The part I think might be causing the confusion is the German designation of the rifle. G1 is a Beligium made FN FAL from 1956 to 1959. G3 is the German HK production of the CETME from 1959 to 1995, with various modifications.

FN FAL and it's variants have some parts interchagability, no parts interchagability with the CETME or its variants. CETME and G3 have some parts interchangiability.

Some Fal variants:
G1 (GERMANY)-L1A1 (BRITAN)-STG58 (AUSTRIA),anywhere from 70 to 90 countries used the FN FAL, or a variant as a MBR.

The main CETME variant:
G3 (Germany), around 50 countries used the G3 / CETME variant as a MBR.

As you can see due to their mixed history and wide spread use, these rifles often get confused, but the designs and parts are totaly different.

My bad, sorry for arguing

[Kodiak32]

Oh don't worry about it meatloaf, you were adding to the discussion with what you thought and there's nothing wrong with that.

I even found a mistake in my own post when discussing the CETME design, the German ww2 rifle should be STG45, not STG54.

Sorry for getting off topic folks.

The M14 and CETME are both great rifles, but I still favor the L1A1.

[FS00008]

Hate to say it, but I would have to go with an AK design because I believe that it would serve a Banana republic much better. As a battle rifle, my choice would almost always be the L1A1, but I just don't think that it would serve the country as well as an AK design.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by FS00008

Hate to say it, but I would have to go with an AK design because I believe that it would serve a Banana republic much better. As a battle rifle, my choice would almost always be the L1A1, but I just don't think that it would serve the country as well as an AK design.

If you look at it from their point of view it probably would be best to arm them with an AK, however looking at it from an american point of view I would say arm them with the m16. We could sell them our old retired platforms and we could also control their ammunition better. I mean thats just an easy way to further our empire.

[FS00008]

Not to try to start a "flame" war. But, if I were a banana republic, I would never EVER choose a/an Stoner platform as a primary arm. Personally, I do enjoy shooting the AR platform quite a bit, but I wouldn't trust my life with one. I understand your point, however I can't see a Banana Republic actually choosing the M16.

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by stitchclimber

Knightrider, I soundly agree with you. Buy the guns from the brits. A good well built rifle that is powerful and easy to operate and maintain is priceless in a battlefield situation.v

Don't know if that would be possible now; I heard that we sold off lots of our "War reserve" L1A1's to Sierra Leone at only 40 cents a rifle!!! We could have sold em to you guys but your government wouldn't let us! Politicos.Yah!!!

[knightRider]

Originally Posted by meatloaf

My bad, sorry for arguing

.

We werent arguing man! we were discussing! its all good meatloaf!

[sell33]

40 cents a rifle wtf!?!? lol thats ridiculous i would be in heaven if guns could be that cheap everywhere

[Kodiak32]

Originally Posted by sell33

40 cents a rifle wtf!?!? lol thats ridiculous i would be in heaven if guns could be that cheap everywhere

I could'nt agree more, I always miss the good deals.

[kygunsmith]

One can't lose with either of the 3 . All 3 are wonderfully reliable, accurate select fire battle rifles FN depends on version?). My personal opinion is a Co of Marines with 14's would shoot the "pee" out of any country's co armed with G3or FN, AK, etc. .Wasn't the Cetmo adopted by spain in the late 50's? It is a G-3? The Fn-Fal is not too similar to the G3. The G3, and Spanish copy, uses a delayed roller lock recoil operated action while the Fnfal is a gas operated rifle with a delayed vertical sliding lock on the bolt kind of like a P-38 or siminov (SKS).
Unless this question is purely academic the country should adopt either an AR or an AK, depending on the logistics of your situation. But an M14 would be better, if ltd to 308 as you asked. (Not 308, but 7.62x51) To my experience with all 3 options, and CETME, the "14" has better egonomics, reliability, firepower and accuracy. They are all SO good this is a nitpicking opinion. .I'm more certain(?) one could find stats to prove the average M14's superior accuracy if the bbl wasn't shot out with full auto? The ergonomics preference is both personal and depends on what kind of firearms the soldier has experience with. All these are too heavy, for the banana republics, as is the ammo. Go light, issue each soldiers 50 times the ammo he will need, good training and dig in. Heck, as you are defender you have an advantage in the weight of ammo carried by insurg.
'Course, I'd like 50,000 cartons of marlboro red, 5 priests and a whole bunch of quinine,etc. and a bunch of pretty girls...

[perdidochas]

Originally Posted by Rick S

I'm putting together an essay on battle rifles and wanted to get some opinions.

If in today's world if you were arming a small country's defensive force. Your country is recognized by the UK, the US, Australia, Brazil, and Germany. These countries are offering you a choice of three different weapons. Germany is offering you a warehouse full of Heckler and Koch G3's. The US if offering the M-14, and the UK is offering the L1A1.

Here are the rules: All weapons are the same price. All weapons are required to be from the same source. And all of them are in the same slightly used condition, Like New.

What is your weapon of choice?

I'd choose the G-3. It's probably the most reliable of the 3.

Originally Posted by meatloaf

being american I would have to promoteour firearms. more jobs for us and we contol a large ammount of ammunition to the country, just incase we have to smack them around alittle.


The Spanish G3 is the base for the FAL, before the spain took the model for production it was the germans. With the end of the second world war the embargos against germany forbid them to manufactor firearms, so the company and its engineers/scientists moved to spain and started CETME. CETME created the G3, later the paton was sold and the FAL was started. The G3 and FAL are almost exactly the same with parts that are interchangeable.

No. The CETME (and it's descendent, the G-3) have a totally different operating mechanism than the FN FAL. The CETME and the G-3 are almost interchangable.

Originally Posted by meatloaf

What isnt true about it? wikipedia cetme thats where I got my info.

Wikipedia CETME says nothing about the FN FAL. The CETME is the less refined version of the HK G3.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by perdidochas

I'd choose the G-3. It's probably the most reliable of the 3.



No. The CETME (and it's descendent, the G-3) have a totally different operating mechanism than the FN FAL. The CETME and the G-3 are almost interchangable.




Wikipedia CETME says nothing about the FN FAL. The CETME is the less refined version of the HK G3.

yeah my memory got the two confused im sorry.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

According to Bostons Gun Bible he rates all three Rifles you mentioned and a whole lot more. His conclusion is you only need 2 firearms. One is an M1A or M14 if you are that lucky. The other is a Glock. (A pic of the book. It is a garand but the book was the perfect size to hold it up. Its a very thick book.) So based on those comparisons I would say M14.

[Mike Franklin]

A Bannana Republic? Pass over what they offer and get a boat load of AK47s. KISS.
When you have an Army made up of guys who think flush toilets are damned near magic the you need simple and reliable.
If the deal includes Military Advisors then go with the M-14, the help you get would be more inclusive and you'll get plenty of free aid with the guns.

[Horseman77]

Fn-Fal. little people have a tuff time carrying it, the ammo and hanging on to it when they fire it.

I would go for an m16 family of weapons

[FS00008]

Ya know what.. I need to revise my former opinion. For the ultimate in simplicity and reliability, give them Mosin-Nagants.

[jmp8927]

^ lol

Of the three I'd probably go FAL just because it seems more ergonomic. But I agree with others. AK-47. Cheap and there will always be ammo. Also simple and regardless of the climate, they will work and keep on working.