HB 2833- Coded ammunition; State database

Pred · 02-13-2008, 10:30 AM

O REALLY!!!!

This is for Arizona, and I've heard Illinois has the same thing going on now to, better check your state.

Format Document

Quote:

Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 41, chapter 12, article 5, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 41-1772, to read:

START_STATUTE41-1772. Ammunition coding system database; sale of ammunition; tax; fund; civil penalty; violation; classification; definition

A. Beginning january 1, 2009, a manufacturer shall code all handgun and ASSAULT weapon AMMUNITION that is manufactured or sold in this state. This section applies to all calibers.

b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by the citizen or vendor.

c. The department shall establish and maintain an ammunition coding system database containing a manufacturer registry and a vendor registry.

D. A manufacturer shall:

1. Register with the department in a manner prescribed by the department by rule.

2. Maintain records on the business premises for at least seven years concerning all sales, loans and transfers of ammunition to, from or within this state.

3. Encode ammunition provided for retail sale for regulated firearms in a manner that the director establishes so that:

(a) The base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing of each round in a box of ammunition are coded with the same serial number.

(b) Each serial number is engraved in such a manner that it is highly likely to permit identification after ammunition discharge and bullet impact.

(c) The outside of each box of ammunition is labeled with the name of the manufacturer and the same serial number used on the cartridge casings and bases of bullets contained in the box.

4. Pay the tax levied by subsection I of this section.

E. A manufacturer shall not label ammunition contained in one ammunition box with the same serial number as the ammunition contained in another ammunition box that is produced by the same manufacturer.

F. A vendor shall:

1. Register with the department in a manner prescribed by the department by rule.

2. Record the following information in a format prescribed by the department:

(a) The date of the transaction.

(b) The name of the purchaser.

(c) The purchaser's driver license number or other government issued identification card number.

(d) The date of birth of the purchaser.

(e) the unique identifier of all handgun ammunition or bullets transferred.

(f) All other information prescribed by the department.

3. Maintain records on the business premises for at least three years after the date of the recorded purchase.

G. The department shall establish the ammunition coding system database within the framework of any existing firearms databases.

H. Access to information in the ammunition coding system database is reserved for law enforcement personnel. The department shall only release information in connection with a criminal investigation.

I. A tax of one-half cent is levied on each bullet or round of ammunition that is sold in this state. The department of revenue shall collect the tax and deposit the tax, pursuant to sections 35-146 and 35-147, in the coded ammunition fund established by subsection J of this section.

J. The coded ammunition fund is established consisting of monies deposited pursuant to subsection I of this section. The department shall administer the fund. Subject to legislative appropriation, monies in the fund shall be used for the purpose of establishing and maintaining the ammunition coding system database prescribed by this section.

K. a manufacturer that fails to comply with this section is subject to a civil penalty of not more than one THOUSAND dollars for the first violation, not more than five thousand dollars for a second violation and not more than ten thousand dollars for any subsequent violation.

L. a vendor who knowingly fails to comply with this section or who knowingly falsifies the records REQUIRED to be kept by this section is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

M. a person who knowingly destroys, obliterates or otherwise renders unreadable the coding REQUIRED by this section is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.

N. for the purposes of this section, "code or coded" means a unique identifier that has been APPLIED by etching onto the base of a bullet or ammunition projectile. END_STATUTE

Sec. 2. Requirements for enactment; two-thirds vote

Pursuant to article IX, section 22, Constitution of Arizona, this act is effective only on the affirmative vote of at least two-thirds of the members of each house of the legislature and is effective immediately on the signature of the governor or, if the governor vetoes this act, on the subsequent affirmative vote of at least three-fourths of the members of each house of the legislature.

Shaun · 02-13-2008, 10:35 AM

just makes reloading more attractive as they don't go after components.

Pred · 02-13-2008, 10:37 AM

Yeah they do Shaun, as far as I can tell this should and most likely will make reloading illegal. Trust me, they won't let that "loophole" slip by. Even if you reload your still going to have to fill out paperwork.

Quote:

N. for the purposes of this section, "code or coded" means a unique identifier that has been APPLIED by etching onto the base of a bullet or ammunition projectile. END_STATUTE

TXplt · 02-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Let's please all vote out of office those whacko politicians who introduce or support drivel such as this !

jeffsenpai · 02-13-2008, 08:06 PM

They REAAALLLY want to make life hard for gun owners eh? Too bad laws like these only hurt the law-abiding...

b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by the citizen or vendor.

This is the part I really dislike.

TXplt · 02-13-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsenpai

They REAAALLLY want to make life hard for gun owners eh? Too bad laws like these only hurt the law-abiding...

b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by the citizen or vendor.

This is the part I really dislike.

Yeah, THAT'LL happen !!!!!

mym1a · 02-13-2008, 08:17 PM

well lets hope this doesn't pass? the only people this will hurt is the legit gun owners

JOEGUN94 · 02-13-2008, 08:22 PM

one way or the other, they will try. all that vwill do is make you and i broke, and the criminal, well more of a crimianl.
i don't think this will get far, as arizona is pro gun.
il, ca and ny will be the ones to watch. all their gun control has not stopped a thing.
maybe we should use our brand of gun control, a vote, and two hands

mym1a · 02-13-2008, 08:34 PM

man has Arizona changed since I first moved there in early 1980 , I have many fond memories I was rather sad the day I left! but, it appears I can never return!, not so much of a place but a time.I can remember when atuo insurance in that state was optional, nobody thought much about carrying a side arm in small towns like Casa Grande, Coolidge or Florence. well as the population tripled in 20 years so did all the crime and bad habits of those coming to this state! sad very sad!

troy2000 · 02-14-2008, 03:02 AM

I wouldn't worry about it yet in Arizona. I don't think this will pass; it'll get laughed out of the state legislature.

Obviously, it was written by someone who knows nothing about guns. How the !@#$ do you make it "highly likely" that a serial number written on the base of a bullet will stay legible after impact? You'd have to re-design bullets to make them all non-expanding and non-deforming.

Cyrano · 02-14-2008, 07:50 AM

Then again, troy, it could be that the local crop of antis in AZ have figured out that if they can't get the legislature to go along with banning guns, an effective way to disarm the populace is to deprive the guns of what they eat. You know as well as I do that a gun without cartridges is a paperweight. Not that such a moronic law would stop the crooks; they'll just hop on over to Nevada or New Mexico and bring back unmarked ammo.

What it might actually do, assuming it does not get laughed off the floor of the legislature, is turn a whole bunch of otherwise honest gyun owners into criminals, the same way Prohibition did drinkers. Has it never occurred to the kind of morons that introduce or suggest to legislators that they introduce such bills, is that a law which is not respected weakens respect for all laws?

troy2000 · 02-14-2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Then again, troy, it could be that the local crop of antis in AZ have figured out that if they can't get the legislature to go along with banning guns, an effective way to disarm the populace is to deprive the guns of what they eat. You know as well as I do that a gun without cartridges is a paperweight. Not that such a moronic law would stop the crooks; they'll just hop on over to Nevada or New Mexico and bring back unmarked ammo.
What it might actually do, assuming it does not get laughed off the floor of the legislature, is turn a whole bunch of otherwise honest gyun owners into criminals, the same way Prohibition did drinkers. Has it never occurred to the kind of morons that introduce or suggest to legislators that they introduce such bills, is that a law which is not respected weakens respect for all laws?

I guarantee this one won't pass in Arizona, Cyrano. I doubt it'll even make it to a vote; they'll kill it in committee.

Windwalker · 02-14-2008, 08:54 AM

You good folks in Arizona better start calling and writing your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Start now! Everyone should check in their State to see if similar Legislation has been introduced and if so, notify your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Can you even imagine the cost increase per box of ammo if the ammunition manufacturers had to comply with this proposal? And that is if they even could comply with it. Hope you folks in Arizona vote the man out of office who introduced this.

SKS NOOB · 02-14-2008, 09:15 AM

They must have watched "Judge Dredd". The bullets in the "judges" guns had a way to encode the indivituals DNA so they could tell who shot who. SCIFI in the making ladys and gents.

Seabeescotty · 02-14-2008, 09:21 AM

The only technology that exists for bullet marking is crude and far from foolproof, so the pols are trying to pass something that is in it's infancy. The manufacturers have told them it would be costly and cause mountains of paperwork. Look like more of that under the table gun control?

troy2000 · 02-14-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windwalker

You good folks in Arizona better start calling and writing your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Start now! Everyone should check in their State to see if similar Legislation has been introduced and if so, notify your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Can you even imagine the cost increase per box of ammo if the ammunition manufacturers had to comply with this proposal? And that is if they even could comply with it. Hope you folks in Arizona vote the man out of office who introduced this.

It was a woman, Windwalker. Does that surprise you?

No offense to the ladies on this forum, some of whom know more than I do. But I'd say the average female legislator knows less about guns, and is more emotional and less reasoning about them, than the average man.

runfiverun · 02-14-2008, 05:03 PM

individually encoded brass that would make it much easier to sort for each
rifle.
if i could see inside the case.
maybe boxes of ammo would start coming in the 1000's.

Deersniper · 02-14-2008, 05:50 PM

I've been pressing them for three years straight. When I first heard this years ago, I started. I got too many to count. There's going to be a brass and copper rush! What's in your ammo box? Don't try to charge it on your CITI card. It's real easy to make your own.

mym1a · 02-14-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troy2000

It was a woman, Windwalker. Does that surprise you?

No offense to the ladies on this forum, some of whom know more than I do. But I'd say the average female legislator knows less about guns, and is more emotional and less reasoning about them, than the average man.

I did some checking around troy appears that got thrown out of cali . "damn I have to agree with you again"

Don Fleming II · 10-09-2008, 05:30 AM

The Arizona Citizens Defense League reports that HB 2833 is now DEAD (it failed to move before the deadline. Go to 2008 Bills to see the status of this bill & others). However, this does not mean that the fight is over. If anything, we need to remain ever watchful because we all know that things like this have a habit of turning up again just like the proverbial bad penny.

Here is a list of the Representatives who supported this piece of garbage:

Martha Garcia, Democrat(District 13, running for re-election this year)
Linda Lopez, Democrat (District 29)
Manuel V. Alvarez, Denocrat (District 25)
David Bradley, Democrat (District 28, running for re-election this year)
Clovis D. Campbell Jr., Democrat (District 16, running for re-election this year)

Despite the fact that HB 2833 is now dead, it is vital that we let these elected officials know just how displeased we all are by not voting for them in November & removing them from office.

02-13-2008, 10:35 AM	#2
Shaun Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 8,776 Images: 1	just makes reloading more attractive as they don't go after components. __________________ "Homeland Security is the responsibility of an armed citizen" ME http://webpages.charter.net/s.s.v/

02-13-2008, 04:22 PM	#4
TXplt Conservative in Exile Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3,275 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Let's please all vote out of office those whacko politicians who introduce or support drivel such as this ! __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

02-14-2008, 03:02 AM	#10
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 10,484 Images: 9	I wouldn't worry about it yet in Arizona. I don't think this will pass; it'll get laughed out of the state legislature. Obviously, it was written by someone who knows nothing about guns. How the !@#$ do you make it "highly likely" that a serial number written on the base of a bullet will stay legible after impact? You'd have to re-design bullets to make them all non-expanding and non-deforming. __________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr

02-14-2008, 08:54 AM	#13
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,269	You good folks in Arizona better start calling and writing your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Start now! Everyone should check in their State to see if similar Legislation has been introduced and if so, notify your legislators telling them to vote no on this proposal. Can you even imagine the cost increase per box of ammo if the ammunition manufacturers had to comply with this proposal? And that is if they even could comply with it. Hope you folks in Arizona vote the man out of office who introduced this. __________________ America: Love it and protect it or leave it

02-14-2008, 09:21 AM	#15
Seabeescotty The ol' Coot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 5,041 Images: 18 Blog Entries: 1	The only technology that exists for bullet marking is crude and far from foolproof, so the pols are trying to pass something that is in it's infancy. The manufacturers have told them it would be costly and cause mountains of paperwork. Look like more of that under the table gun control? __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge

02-13-2008, 08:06 PM	#5
jeffsenpai Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Posts: 128	They REAAALLLY want to make life hard for gun owners eh? Too bad laws like these only hurt the law-abiding... b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by the citizen or vendor. This is the part I really dislike.

02-13-2008, 08:17 PM	#7
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	well lets hope this doesn't pass? the only people this will hurt is the legit gun owners

02-13-2008, 08:22 PM	#8
JOEGUN94 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: MARSHALL Posts: 169	one way or the other, they will try. all that vwill do is make you and i broke, and the criminal, well more of a crimianl. i don't think this will get far, as arizona is pro gun. il, ca and ny will be the ones to watch. all their gun control has not stopped a thing. maybe we should use our brand of gun control, a vote, and two hands

02-13-2008, 08:34 PM	#9
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	man has Arizona changed since I first moved there in early 1980 , I have many fond memories I was rather sad the day I left! but, it appears I can never return!, not so much of a place but a time.I can remember when atuo insurance in that state was optional, nobody thought much about carrying a side arm in small towns like Casa Grande, Coolidge or Florence. well as the population tripled in 20 years so did all the crime and bad habits of those coming to this state! sad very sad!

02-14-2008, 07:50 AM	#11
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 3,408	Then again, troy, it could be that the local crop of antis in AZ have figured out that if they can't get the legislature to go along with banning guns, an effective way to disarm the populace is to deprive the guns of what they eat. You know as well as I do that a gun without cartridges is a paperweight. Not that such a moronic law would stop the crooks; they'll just hop on over to Nevada or New Mexico and bring back unmarked ammo. What it might actually do, assuming it does not get laughed off the floor of the legislature, is turn a whole bunch of otherwise honest gyun owners into criminals, the same way Prohibition did drinkers. Has it never occurred to the kind of morons that introduce or suggest to legislators that they introduce such bills, is that a law which is not respected weakens respect for all laws?

02-14-2008, 09:15 AM	#14
SKS NOOB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Minnesotah Posts: 716	They must have watched "Judge Dredd". The bullets in the "judges" guns had a way to encode the indivituals DNA so they could tell who shot who. SCIFI in the making ladys and gents.

02-14-2008, 05:03 PM	#17
runfiverun Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: soda springs idaho Posts: 383	individually encoded brass that would make it much easier to sort for each rifle. if i could see inside the case. maybe boxes of ammo would start coming in the 1000's.

02-14-2008, 05:50 PM	#18
Deersniper Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	I've been pressing them for three years straight. When I first heard this years ago, I started. I got too many to count. There's going to be a brass and copper rush! What's in your ammo box? Don't try to charge it on your CITI card. It's real easy to make your own.

10-09-2008, 05:30 AM	#20
Don Fleming II Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1	The Arizona Citizens Defense League reports that HB 2833 is now DEAD (it failed to move before the deadline. Go to 2008 Bills to see the status of this bill & others). However, this does not mean that the fight is over. If anything, we need to remain ever watchful because we all know that things like this have a habit of turning up again just like the proverbial bad penny. Here is a list of the Representatives who supported this piece of garbage: Martha Garcia, Democrat(District 13, running for re-election this year) Linda Lopez, Democrat (District 29) Manuel V. Alvarez, Denocrat (District 25) David Bradley, Democrat (District 28, running for re-election this year) Clovis D. Campbell Jr., Democrat (District 16, running for re-election this year) Despite the fact that HB 2833 is now dead, it is vital that we let these elected officials know just how displeased we all are by not voting for them in November & removing them from office.