sh*t has hit the fan! some things to think about.

[fullMetalJack]

ok, personally ive gone threw tons and tons of scenarios. i have my gear ready rations almost everything i need. destinations . the works. my question is communication ? cb radios will do but the radio waves are shared. any ideas on ways you would communcate with any other survival camps and so on without being targeted. the only thing that is not bullet proof in my shtf plan is communications. whats your input on communications. radios gps etc.

[neophyte]

fullMetaljacket: Sir; my first instinct; no communications at all. My immediate family would be it. Too many talkers will get you dead.
The outside under these types of situations are bleak, without a safety valve. Your best; protect your family and let the world move at its pace.

[just_a_car]

FRS, due to the secondary frequencies, will help with secure communication, but will not stop someone from tracking your signal. As long as you're transmitting, you can be tracked. So, unless you're using flags, mirrors, or smoke, someone with a sophisticated receiver/scanner can track you... that being said, in SHTF, the chances of having someone use that and find you are slim-to-none.

So, go with CB, HAM, FRS, or shortwave... whatever you have available. If you don't want to risk interception of your communications, get an encrypted system, like the "trunked" police systems, or just use predetermined coded language.

[fullMetalJack]

yea, thats what i was wandering about. is the police rigs they got out these days. i just think it would be handy if you were forming a so to speak underground coalition force .

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by fullMetalJack

ok, personally ive gone threw tons and tons of scenarios. i have my gear ready rations almost everything i need. destinations . the works. my question is communication ? cb radios will do but the radio waves are shared. any ideas on ways you would communcate with any other survival camps and so on without being targeted. the only thing that is not bullet proof in my shtf plan is communications. whats your input on communications. radios gps etc.

I would agree... distance yourself from modern day communications ... even talk-about radios... it all can be tracked and triangulated.

Passive radio may be helpful ... (listening only) but I am not sure if that can be tracked.

Revert back to basics my man ... send a runner for communications. Use light and sound to signal others in the area.

[neophyte]

LarryO1970: Sir; after studying my behind off. Aint gonna have one of them either. Upkeep on modern stuff isn't as problematic as yesteryears;

Are the simpler to track; technology has it that I "can" trace your phone call number sitting in a car beside you while you are dialing.

Were my family at risk? There wouldn't be a radio [if I could help it] within 10 miles.

In my perfect world: I wouldn't want anyone around me. Selfishly, my approach; attack.

Quite will keep you alive.

[Windwalker]

Even in your own area you may get some people you don't want.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by neophyte

LarryO1970: Sir; after studying my behind off. Aint gonna have one of them either. Upkeep on modern stuff isn't as problematic as yesteryears;

Are the simpler to track; technology has it that I "can" trace your phone call number sitting in a car beside you while you are dialing.

Were my family at risk? There wouldn't be a radio [if I could help it] within 10 miles.

In my perfect world: I wouldn't want anyone around me. Selfishly, my approach; attack.

Quite will keep you alive.

Like I said... " Revert back to basics my man ... send a runner for communications. Use light and sound to signal others in the area."

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Even in your own area you may get some people you don't want.

Very true... use light and sound only as a signaling device with known groups... not for reaching out blindly.

[nathangdad]

Just do not transmit anything. Listen to everything possible.
A responsible group may transmit some manner in which to
contact them other than radio transmission.
If you must transmit, do it on the run - and I do mean
the run as in a vehicle.

[Wingwiper]

You need a license to obtain a Commcercial Radio and or frequency. Then you will ONLY be able to talk to those who share the same freq. Then again if the SHTF there will be no power and you will have to relie on the batts which will be good for just so long.
I think you will find that you are stealth, you will have the best chance to survive and like on D DAY when everyone was seperated and loss commo, things will eventually fall into place.

[neophyte]

Wingwiper: Sir; they changed the laws a little: paraphrased of course.

In a time of extreme emergency; Transmit with what ever you have access to.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by neophyte

Wingwiper: Sir; they changed the laws a little: paraphrased of course.

In a time of extreme emergency; Transmit with what ever you have access to.

I am sorry, my meaning was lost.

YES! you are right, but what is available was controlled by the FCC and by licensing. You may not have another radio on the same freq for 100s of miles. Usually when a freq was licensed by the FCC, you licensed a Base and X nbr of mobile units. Those Long Freqs are different from the short range CB. Every CB has the same channels but is limited on range.

The other thing one must consider is you are easy to find, when you transmit. It is called Triangulation. Two people picking up your signal will watch the signal strentgh as they move around, until they are able to pinpoint the EXACT direction you are transmitting from. The Germans did it very successuflly during WWII.

[neophyte]

Wingwiper: Sir; I thought I knew what you meant.

For others, I was making sure: Any means available in an emergency.


Sir: your exacting thought of German triangulations Now even with our Dog tracking devices we can get to within feet.

Make no mistake; tracking is possible with ANY transmitting. The US is using land based Micro Beams/lasers other countries have this technology. Satellite
infrastructure's with radio wave hone in strong to within mere feet.

I left a lot out of my part of this thinking; to make my personal understanding point.

[damage855]

I have a few CB radios in vehicles and a few hand helds but there use would be very limited only to advise of a serious situation and monitoring them and my scanners for others communications.

[meatloaf]

transmit in binary code? Sounds unrealistic but there are alot of people out there who know binarycode these days. I know it from addressing fire alarms.

[mym1a]

unless i'm missing something? your not going to have an established resupply who would you wan't to contact? I would think any radio communication gps and cell phones can be tracked and or rendered inoperable, unless im mistaken most civilian and civilian law enforcement works off of repeaters or satelites? oh I suppose if you had 2 or 3 groups needing to move into some position there would be a need for extremely limited, disciplined communication probably using a pair of hand helds?? I have to agree with larryO I think keeping things simple is a good way to go.I here a lot of people talking about taking their high capacity converted fully auto rifle into the back country and???????? yeah shooting, hitting a target is part of the equation but, what about when your not doing all of this shooting? how about knowing some other skills like what to eat? keep your self from getting sick or an infection? where you going to find shelter between all these gun battles everone is romanticizing about????? what are you going to do when some one breaks a legs? or your in a place where it's below zero for several days??? what will you do to prevent disintary? when moving form one area to another how you going to do this with out leaving any sign????you think after going several days with maybe 2 to 4 hours sleep, living in the eliments won't take its toll on your health?If your going to be in that type of situation, you think you will be able to start a fire when ever you want? and pass the bottle around reminising of hunting trips gone by???

[LarryO1970]

Agreed mym1a ... romanticizing about the mother of all battles will quickly come to an end when the first person drops. It is a life changing event.

Mym1a has made some very good points. This is the first time anyone (that I've seen) has posted referencing any medical issues. Very pertinent information... to go along with the guns, shelter, water, etc.

Planning for the worst and hopeful for the best is my thing... but one has to be realistic. Medicines for infections and other ailments need to be considered too. We all talk about the guns and ammo we would use from whatever shelter another poster references... but realistically... plan for everyday life, no the mother of all battles.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by just_a_car

So, go with CB, HAM, FRS, or shortwave... whatever you have available. If you don't want to risk interception of your communications, get an encrypted system, like the "trunked" police systems, or just use predetermined coded language.

However, you have to remember some things about the use of code language.

First, if the party on the other end does not have the code book, he/she won't be able to understand what you are saying. That's the major problem with code books to start with. They can't be broken if you don't go to the well too often, but they have to be decoded.

Second, you cannot say anything using code talk that you have not put into the code book. You have to incorporate every possible thing you may want to say in advance.

Third, even if you do something like select a published book to become your code book so you can transmit in numbers only, everyone on the network has to have a copy not only of that book, but of the same edition and printing of that book. It's a two-edged sword. Decoding is tediously slow, but reasonably secure as long as all involved are literally on the same page and no transcription errors are made. But if you lose the book you are screwed until you can get another one.

For example (I just happen to have a hardcover and a paperback of Larry Niven and Steven Barnes' Dream Park to hand), if the agreed-on codebook was Dream Park, May 1982 mass market paperback edition, 2nd printing, "1722404" - page 172, 24th line from the top of the page, 4th word from the left - would translate as 'rifles.' However, if someone knew the code book was Dream Park but tried to decode it using the 1981 Book Club first edition, "1722404" translates as "in." Gibberish. Worse than trying to translate what a teenager is saying.

Your best bet might be to speak in a foreign language and assign specific meanings to specific words. For instance, the Navajo code talkers of the Marine Corps used the Navajo words for hawk and turtle to mean fighter plane and tank, respectively. An enemy would have to translate what was said into his/her language, and then try to infer the meaning of the speech from what that provided. Considering that the famous example of "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" translated from English to Russian and back into English comes out as, "The vodka is good but the meat is rotten," this might be of some use in confusing an enemy. (If you want a real dose of fun, see if you can lay your hands on the book Mark Twain published a century ago that has "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County" in English, then translated into French, and then the French literally translated back into English. It's a hoot!)

But I think the tactically minded of us have the right of it. Listen, but don't broadcast without a very good reason to do so. RDF gear is simply too good these days.

[neophyte]

LarryO1970: Sir; you said exactly what I was thinking. Wham-Bam and then the clean up.
Who wins is all about subjectivity.
Reality: one big mess.

mym1a: Sir; outstanding observation.

[Coeloptera]

Interesting discussion here.

Insofar as I am aware, passive radio eavesdropping cannot be tracked. It's just equipment for picking up existing signals that are already in the air. If you have to listen, make sure you're not transmitting. Any transmission, encrypted or not, can potentially be tracked as the device is emitting radio waves. Two listeners can triangulate you. It was sort of scary when I first learned how relatively easy that can be with the right equipment. It's not a cakewalk, but it's doable.

Cel phones are likely not to be working anymore in a SHTF situation. If they are, I'm honestly not sure how easy tracking them is without the assistance of a telecomm. With a telecomm, they can find out which base station your phone is locking onto (since most phones try to optimize signal) and that can give them a general idea. If they want to be more precise, most cels "read" multiple base stations and lock onto the strongest one. This can give them sort of an anti-Venn diagram picture of the coverage area of that station, giving them a general idea of where you are. If a cel is working, it may be very hard for individuals to find you without a telecomm's assistance.

- Coeloptera