SHTF gas issues?

[kalashnikov47]

Howdy folks. I have a couple of things I'd like to discuss with you. I can remember 9/11 2001 and the issues that we as Americans had with gasoline. It seemed that everyone lined up for a full tank on that day. Just wondering what you guys and gals have in mind if you needed to move and the gas pumps went dry? I'm thinking about maybe a 2 week to 2 month long shtf scenario and moving 1000-500miles. One thing that I have heard about is running a diesel engine on WVO Waste Vegetable Oil. I suspose that a guy could have a bit more of a chance with travel if they burned this stuff then gasoline? Anyone doing this right now?

Thoughts and comments welcome!

[Rem 742 30-06]

but you would need to find a restaurant that was still giving it so it would be as bad or worse.

[pball942]

Great thing about that is, it's just sitting around back, and all you have to do pick it up. Shouldn't be a problem finding it for a while. Big problem is refining it to run in your diesel. Also need to consider cold weather and the gelling effect which bio-diesel does. So you need additives to prevent that, or an engin block warmer. But a diesel is a good idea in my book, was designed to run on peanut oil.

Heres' a great link for a ton of information.
Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever

[damage855]

deisel engines can run on kerosene, heating, oil jet fuel,ect. in a pinch basicly any thing but gasoline I have run heating oil and kero in mine before works fine but your fuel economy does go down a little and your tail pipe smokes a little more. My old 96 dodge cummins stay near a full tank along with a 55gal drum in my outbuilding full of offroad deisel that i could use in a tough time.

[Bravo]

If I were preparing for a SHTF situation, I would try to be as little reliant on gasoline as possible. Being ready to not need it is better than expecting to have it and finding out that you're screwed.

[Cyrano]

As far as the "French Fry Car" idea goes: Yes, you can run a diesel engine on waste vegetable oil. But it's not simple to do it. You have to keep that in mind.

First, you have to get the oil, which may or not be a problem.

Second, you have to filter it. You have to run it though a 2 micron filter to get all the gunk out and make it fit for your engine. It takes awhile for a deep fat fryer's-worth of oil to drip through the filter. It's not like pulling into a gas station and sticking a nozzle in the tank.

Third, unless you live in the tropics you can't just pour the filtered WVO into the fuel tank, fire it up and go. All the successful 'grease cars' I've run across have been refitted with a dual fuel system. They all have two tanks, one for auto diesel and one for WVO. The best ones replace the stock fuel tank with a divided tank that fits into the same space and has its fill line on the opposite side of the car. The down-and-dirty jobs sacrifice trunk space to fit in the second tank, which is definitely an issue in a SHTF situation where you need every cubic inch of space you have. In either case, you also have to run a heating system into the WVO tank. Some install an electric system that runs off the alternator. Others run in coolant lines from the engine cooling system to warm the WVO. You control which tank you are drawing from with a switch in the cockpit.

Why two systems? Basically, because of the difference in ignition temperature between diesel/No.2 Home Heating/fuel oil, and vegetable oil. WVO has to be preheated in order to get it to burn. If you want to test this, put a plate of diesel fuel and a plate of vegetable oil on an outdoor table and try to ignite them. The diesel will burn a lot quicker than the veggie oil will at room temperature. The usual practice for a grease car is to start up on diesel and run it for five to 10 minutes on diesel before switching over to the WVO tank. At the end of the trip, about 5 minutes before you want to shut down you switch back to diesel, to clear and clean the injectors.

It's a great system for running a car, and the filters you need for the WVO are small enough you can pack them and a funnel/tank with you so you can take advantage of any restaurant you happen across while evacuating or dodging the zombies or the phoners or whatever. But you have to know the limitations of WVO fuel and figure out how to work within them. That said, if you can set up for it in advance with your bug-out vehicle, I would.

[kalashnikov47]

Cyrano! and all the others that have posted, thanks for the input. I have been playing with the idea of buying a m1009 military blazer and converting it to WVO. I partly am thinking about SHTF issues and the gas prices sky rocketing this summer. I've heard rumors about $5.00 a gallon gas prices this summer. This to me is unacceptable, and I plan on combating this "gas war" with diesel and WVO. I have researched this and have came upon different kits on the internet about how to to this. There is plenty of kits and info on WVO on the net. one that I have found interesting is this setup from golden fuel systems. link below.

YouTube - Episode 6: The One Shot Filtration Unit...

[mym1a]

how about a mountain bike with paniers

[damage855]

I found one set of blue prints that involed an old water heater to heat the oil then you poured it onto a large shallow pan an put a chemical on it. then the glycerene(not spelled right) comes to the top and you can skim it off. after this process it is very close to store bought bio-deisel.

[Big Tool]

Phazyme takes care of my gas problems, but i can get by with pepto-bismol in a pinch.





Honestly i think diesel is a horrible idea. Right now it's about .30per gallon more than gas, not to mention finding and filtering oil just seem impractical. I would rather gas vehicle for long drives such as getting supplies in anothe city, and a horse for short commuting. Grass is easier to find than VO especially in the case of shtf when all restaurants will be closed anyhow.

[CrazyIvan]

How quickly does regular gasoline, say 87 grade, degrade? I been thinking about getting like a 50-60 gallon fuel barrel or drum that I can fill up & keep in my garage. But, if the gas goes bad, then what's the point?

Thanks.

[Rem 742 30-06]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

Honestly i think diesel is a horrible idea. Right now it's about .30per gallon more than gas,

But diesel also gets better mileage in a comparable vehicle so the price is balanced out that way. And the thing is a lot easier to work on and even if you don't have waste vegetable oil you can use regular vegetable oil too. After all the diesel engine was design to run on peanut oil.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

How quickly does regular gasoline, say 87 grade, degrade? I been thinking about getting like a 50-60 gallon fuel barrel or drum that I can fill up & keep in my garage. But, if the gas goes bad, then what's the point?

Thanks.

Gas is supposedly good for about 60 days under normal conditions. That is not to say it won't run fine after longer periods of time. We had a 500gallon tank at my house after katrina. It took us probably 7-8 months to burn it all up and we never put any stabilizer in it or anything. My dad ran it in his chevy avalanche every day, and never had a single problem. That avalanche now has over 150,000 miles and runs flawlessly.

But if your purpose is to store gas then all you need to do is add some stabilizing agent to it such as Gold Eagle - STA-BIL That will keep it good for 2years. I would set up a program where i would rotate the gas out ever year.

Originally Posted by Rem 742 30-06

But diesel also gets better mileage in a comparable vehicle so the price is balanced out that way. And the thing is a lot easier to work on and even if you don't have waste vegetable oil you can use regular vegetable oil too. After all the diesel engine was design to run on peanut oil.

I'm not sure what we are comparing, if it's trucks then the diesel getting better milage thing is a myth especially when comparing a 1/2 ton gas burner to a 3/4ton diesel. I've had several GM gassers over the past few years, the standard 5.3 engine V8 gets from 16-18mpg mixed driving. the 6.0 v-8 gets 14-16mpg. We currently have two duramax diesels in our company and they both are averaging 14-16mpg. Make no doubt i would rather have the diesel when towing but other than that they are horrible rough riding, impractical, noisier machines.

Now all the new trucks have so much emission bs i doubt ease of mechanicing is much in the favor of gas engines also. Diesels will run a long time but god knows a gas engine will to with any maintenance.

On top of that most diesels carry a 7-8k price premium over a gasoline engine when buying new. Unless i were towing something over 8k lbs on a regular basis I would stick to the gasser.
That's just my view on the gas versus diesel debate. Now when the smaller diesels come into the picture they will definitely be getting my attention.

[CrazyIvan]

Thanks for that info

As far as diesel vs. fuel vs. peanut oil...I will be happy to find a vehicle or place with gas in it that I can use. I don't care what kind it is... lol. If it is deisel, I will find a car I can put it in. If it is fuel, I will either put it in my car or find a car I can put it in.

[damage855]

MY diesel 96 dodge gets 18-21 mpg around town 23-29 highway my dad has a magnum dodge it gets 7-9mpg around town and 14-17mpg highway. big different in the dodge I have heard other complain of the chevy milage also. but primarliy diesels get better milage than a gas in the same car/truck.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by damage855

MY diesel 96 dodge gets 18-21 mpg around town 23-29 highway my dad has a magnum dodge it gets 7-9mpg around town and 14-17mpg highway. big different in the dodge I have heard other complain of the chevy milage also. but primarliy diesels get better milage than a gas in the same car/truck.

You need to send that diesel to dodge and have them tear it apart and find out what is causing such freakishly good milage. My buddy has two dodges both 1ton 4x4's extened cab. One is the 02 "i believe last of the old body style" the other is a 04 with the HO cummins. Older one has the 5sp and 4.10's and the newer one has a 6sp with 3.73's. The 04model gets at best 14mpg, and the old body style one gets 12mpg every where it goes. I love the trucks and have spent some seat time in both but fuel milage definitely isn't their strong point.

Maybe back in 96 there wasn't all the emission b/s that the newer trucks have on them.

You can't use the dodge magnum as a benchmark for anything related to fuel economy. I've heard of one getting over 12mpg.

[damage855]

96 was the last year before they put all the computer crap on them. its an automatic 3/4 ton single cab with a camper shell I put on it. I also put a big ole winch bumber and bull bar on. the only thing I have done to the engine is a drop in K&N air filter in the factory air box. that gave me about .5mpg it has 150,000 mile on it now and would not trade it for nothing been a great truck. I keep it around because I know for a fact it will run on kerosene and heating oil. neighbor had 20gal of kero he didnt need any more once he got his heat pump fixed and he gave it to me so I put it in my truck along with a pint of old motor oil. then my grandma got rid of her old oil furnace and whated me to get rid of about100gal of oil and the tank. took about a month to burn it and caused a little more smoke than normal but hey it was free. So I know that if I am in a tight spot in a SHTF situation i can use diesel, kero, heating oil ect.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by damage855

96 was the last year before they put all the computer crap on them. I keep it around because I know for a fact it will run on kerosene and heating oil. neighbor had 20gal of kero he didnt need any more once he got his heat pump fixed and he gave it to me so I put it in my truck along with a pint of old motor oil. then my grandma got rid of her old oil furnace and whated me to get rid of about100gal of oil and the tank. took about a month to burn it and caused a little more smoke than normal but hey it was free. So I know that if I am in a tight spot in a SHTF situation i can use diesel, kero, heating oil ect.

I worked for a construction company that routinely ran its construction equipment and big dump trucks on No. 2 Home Heating oil. The difference between that and the diesel fuel used in 18-wheelers is of interest only to a chemist. A diesel engine will run just fine on No. 2 oil.

[BaserRonin]

No one has mentioned converting their vehical to propane yet. A tank of propane won't go bad on you like gas. It can result in a power loss though, but I don't think more then 10%. However I do believe you can get a converter kit that will allow you to run on Propane or regular Gas.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by BaserRonin

No one has mentioned converting their vehical to propane yet. A tank of propane won't go bad on you like gas. It can result in a power loss though, but I don't think more then 10%. However I do believe you can get a converter kit that will allow you to run on Propane or regular Gas.

My grandpa actually did that before i came along. My mom and dad were telling me about how he had the propane tank mounted. He also has a tractor that runs on propane. It was apparently converted. The tank sits right on the hood.