adjusting my aim

tlarkin · 01-19-2008, 10:02 PM

Fired off another 75 rounds or so tonight. This time I was able to get head shots and I was aiming for the head. I think my problem was my grip was letting the gun drop a bit when I was squeezing the trigger. Now I am more accurate.

I am going to slowly start putting the target out further and further each session too. I think its cool that after about 1000 rounds with my pistol my aim has already improved pretty well. The next 1000 should improve it even more.

tlarkin · 02-04-2008, 04:03 PM

Well, I am still shooting slightly low and to the right, but it is consistent. So now I need to take the steps to start moving my group to dead center.

I bought a roll of giant orange circle stickers so I can see where every bullet hits in my group. What are some ways to adjust it? Grip? How firm should I be gripping the gun? Obviously too tense is not that good for aiming, and too relaxed allows too much give. I am just guessing that is the case.

I think I am going to move my target in closer tonight. Start at 20 feet, adjust to get it right, then move it out 20 more feet, then repeat.

Maybe I look at getting a different grip tonight too. The gun shop sells those grips that go over your hand gun. Maybe that will make a difference.

Wingwiper · 02-05-2008, 12:31 PM

tlarkin

CALL YOUR SHOTS.

Try and call where the top of the front sight blade was on the target at the MOMENT of the begining of the RECOIL. Try and get that top of the front sight, at the center of your target when the recoil begins. If you are consistantly in the center and the shots are low to the right, you need sight adjustments.

Welcome to the world of shooting. You will never find a sport more relaxing ad rewarding. Do you have problems, mentally put them in the Center ring and start shooting. You will feel so much better. Great sport and great rewards.

You are doing EXCELLENT....

tlarkin · 02-05-2008, 12:44 PM

Yeah, I think I don't quite 100% grasp the sight adjustment versus length of shot. It seems I need to have my sight aimed higher at greater distances.

At close ranges I was hitting the orange stickers with not a whole lot of issues, but was still aiming a bit low. If it makes it better or worse the hangers at the range seem to hang targets a bit low as well.

Wingwiper · 02-05-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Yeah, I think I don't quite 100% grasp the sight adjustment versus length of shot. It seems I need to have my sight aimed higher at greater distances..

YOU need to really Practice CALLING YOUR SHOTS, as I described earlier. Most competitions are at 17 and 25 yards, so pratice at 21 yards. Hold a firm two hand grip and make sure the top of the front sight is clear and at center of target when the recoil starts.
Bullet drop at small yard changes is more noticeable with a hand gun than with a rifle.

You are doing good, keep up the good work, be also CAREFUL not to polish a BAD HABIT, you can do that as easily as polishing a good one... Take care and have fun...

Quote:

At close ranges I was hitting the orange stickers with not a whole lot of issues, but was still aiming a bit low. If it makes it better or worse the hangers at the range seem to hang targets a bit low as well.

It makes no difference how the Target is mounted, it makes a difference where the AIM versus the CALL was at.

mym1a · 02-05-2008, 01:41 PM

are you shooting free hand? if so use a bench for support and see if your still shooting low????? appears to me your elevation needs to be corrected? does the side arm kick a little more then what your use to? maybe you got a flinch that your not aware of? you may want to have a knowledgible person watch you dry fire your pistol?

tlarkin · 02-05-2008, 05:07 PM

they have chairs and I think people sit in them to adjust their aim, I just don't personally like the feel of sitting down and shooting. I will try it next time

thanks for the tip

OK, three point sights on handguns are meant to be lined up to make a line and point that on target? It seems even then I am shooting slightly low and to the right. Its not far off a few inches at most, but still its off.

GlockMeister · 02-07-2008, 01:45 AM

I think you might be compensating and anticipating the kick? Not that a 9mm has a lot of kick, none the less, I think you might be expecting or anticipating it and pushing the gun forward as you're squeezing or pulling the trigger (which could be another reason your shots are off) or soon after to compensate for it. That could explain why your shots tend to be below or below and to the right of where you're aiming at. If you noticed I also mentioned something about how you are squeezing or pulling the trigger could also be the or a reason your shots are off.

I have gone shooting on many occasions with a police officer I know. He is also a member of his departments SWAT team also. So when he gave me this advice while at the range, I listened,it worked and I've been shooting that way ever since, using a handgun that is.

What he suggested was this. Focus on the sights like you normally would and slowly put more focus on the front sight so the rear sight just starts to blur in your line of sight. Also, you may still need to adjust your grip. Wingwiper also gave you good advice and suggestions. I would also suggest getting some snap caps to practice dry firing with, focusing on your grip, how you re-act or how you're reacting when you squeeze the trigger, to see if you indeed are anticipating the bang or in this case the click, lol. Also, practice your grip, try different grips until you find one that suits you the best. Just remember no matter how you grip it, to keep your thumbs or other parts of your hand, below the slide. Slide bites can hurt like the dickens. Also pay attention to where the trigger is on your finger when you fire. As I mentioned above, it could contributing to where your shots are ending up.

Also, the next trip to the range, only set the target out to about 10-15 feet for starters. If you ever have to use it for self defense, they say anywhere from about 7 to maybe 21ft is typical. But, there is no need to have your target out to 25-50 ft until you improve. Once you become consistent at what ever distance you choose, and I'll suggest, 15ft. you can always move the target out farther, a little at a time. Then when you're comfortable and have all the kinks worked out, you can set it at the distance you want or for what ever competition you plan on doing. But I truly believe you're anticipating the bang or kick. As mentioned not only by me, but others, the snap caps will assist you greatly and not to mention a lot cheaper.

I'm in no way an expert. I can say, that the advice I was given, similar to what I gave you, has improved my shot groups dramatically since I started using it. What is usually my down fall, and there is no fix in the world for it, is the chronic neck and back pain I suffer with on a daily basis. But, I'm sure since you've seen improvement from the advice you've already gotten and with more time and a lot more practice, you'll be shooting even better in no time. No matter how good you get, you should still always practice.

When you get better, consistent and confident, also start practicing off hand. If God forbid you ever have to use your firearm to protect yourself or your family, it is a good thing and habit to get into, practicing off hand. Because if your dominant, normal shooting hand ever gets injured, you can still shoot off hand and know you're still capable of making a decent shot.

Happy shooting tlarkin.

G-Meister

tlarkin · 02-07-2008, 11:20 AM

Thanks for the advice. I just bought new pistol grips for my handgun, and I haven't shot with them on yet, but I have dry fired and handled it. It feels a lot better with the new rubber pistol grips.

Thanks for all the advice I think I may go shooting again this week or next week. I am going through so much ammo though I think I may need to start looking into loading my own to save money. I have already fired about 2500 rounds in the last 6 weeks, and my bank account shows it!

Wingwiper · 02-07-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Thanks for the advice. I just bought new pistol grips for my handgun, and I haven't shot with them on yet, but I have dry fired and handled it. It feels a lot better with the new rubber pistol grips.

Thanks for all the advice I think I may go shooting again this week or next week. I am going through so much ammo though I think I may need to start looking into loading my own to save money. I have already fired about 2500 rounds in the last 6 weeks, and my bank account shows it!

Did you learn anything?
Did you enjoy yourself?
Were you doing what you wanted to do?

Who cares about the account then, as long as you have money left for more ammo, you are all set.......

tlarkin · 02-07-2008, 12:56 PM

Yeah but if I save money I can buy another gun....

Yes I am having fun, and yes I want to get good at it. My aim has definitely improved slightly each time I go to the range. I also would like to pay off all my other bills and finally buy a house this year if possible. I am tired of living in an apartment.

GlockMeister · 02-07-2008, 01:43 PM

Well invest in those snap caps for practicing at home to and it will save some cash. Then when you go to the range, what you do shoot will count even more and you won't be shooting as much ammo in the learning or practice process. It will be shot in the, I enjoy this process. You'll find you'll still spend about the same, until you have to cut back, but it will be out of enjoying it and not out of having to practice. lol

G-Meister

Shootester · 02-07-2008, 02:18 PM

Why use snap caps when you can use empty shells?

Montveil · 02-07-2008, 02:53 PM

I found a free target that helps determine faults
leeprecision.com

Dan V in the mountains of NC

mym1a · 02-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shootester

Why use snap caps when you can use empty shells?

I believe the reason why a snap cap maybe better then a cartridge is the spring behind the primer cap. less stress on the fire pin and probably best replicates a live primer??

GlockMeister · 02-07-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mym1a

I believe the reason why a snap cap maybe better then a cartridge is the spring behind the primer cap. less stress on the fire pin and probably best replicates a live primer??

What he said.

G-Meister

tlarkin · 03-03-2008, 12:33 PM

Well, I think I figured out my problem. The travel distance on my Ruger is fairly long, so now I do a slower more controlled squeeze on the trigger and it seems my accuracy is a lot better. I have been putting the target out at 25 yards now, and while I am not a crack shot yet, I am getting more consistent and hitting the B-34 NRA target with pretty much most of my shots.

I also changed my grip and it seems to help. I fired off some guns with better triggers and I am more accurate with them. So, I need to work with pulling the trigger on triggers that have longer travel distance. I think I am pulling them down and to the right.

Strangely, at the rifle range this weekend I was doing a bit similar thing with my AK, but only when standing and shooting @ 50 yards. When I was sitting I didn't have that problem.

I started adjusting to how my finger lays over the trigger at first I was using more of the tip of my finger and now I am using more of the middle of my finger. Seems to have made a difference. My accuracy is definitely getting better, and my targets generally are better than my friends. Though, they don't shoot as often as I do.

Thanks for the advice again guys

Coeloptera · 03-03-2008, 05:35 PM

I'll chime in here, I guess. My wife has a Ruger P90 in .45 and I noticed the Rugers in that "series" (I know, not technically correct) tend to be a smidgy bit front-heavy, by and large. I imagine it's so recoil doesn't throw you off too badly. If you keep your grip firm (as it seems you've been) it shouldn't be an issue, but a slightly loose grip can let the barrel droop down just a touch and you might not have been noticing it.

- Coeloptera

Wingwiper · 03-05-2008, 02:18 PM

Tlarkin

You have done an amazing job.

The first real step in becomeing a Better shooter is to admit where you are screwing up and then take the steps to remedy the probem.

Another step is to break the routine and try something different, I have tried, I don't know how many times to teach a correct OFF HAND postion to some shooters who refuse to try it, cuz the first time they try it is UNCOMFORTABLE. I try to tell them it is uncomfortable, cuz it is different and once you give it a try you will grow accustom to it. Many refuse and continue to be average or below average Off hand Shooters.

You seem to be wanting to learn the Correct way and you are adjusting to the correct ways and not adjusting the ways to you.

Congrats on your progress

tlarkin · 03-05-2008, 02:53 PM

Yeah I tried twice shooting left handed, and it was hard hehe. I can't do that with my rifle though, I don't want shells ejecting in my face.

I think confidence helps too. I now 'know' I am going to hit my target instead of just 'thinking' I might. All good advice given here and it has all helped me out.

I love my Ruger but as far as it goes for shooting pin point accurate, I think it fails in that region. Don't get me wrong, already in 2008 I have fired 3,000 rounds with it with no jams, no issues, not a single problem. Ruger already has a soft spot with me. However, when i fired a friends Kimber 1911 .45 I was grouping a lot tighter and was more accurate with it. I think it may have to mainly due to the travel distance of the trigger. It seems the longer the pull the more I drag the gun down a bit and to the right. The shorter the trigger pull the more accurate I get. I've been trying to adjust my grip to stabilize the difference of a longer trigger pull. In retrospect my buddy prefers longer trigger pulls and he seems to be more accurate with them. Everyone is different I guess.

I got this HK USP .40 compact I've been eyeballing for a while. Maybe if the price is right I may just have to pick it up. I've held one and played with one but haven't fired one yet, and it already feels really good in my hands.

Thanks again for the advice.

02-05-2008, 05:07 PM	#27
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	they have chairs and I think people sit in them to adjust their aim, I just don't personally like the feel of sitting down and shooting. I will try it next time thanks for the tip OK, three point sights on handguns are meant to be lined up to make a line and point that on target? It seems even then I am shooting slightly low and to the right. Its not far off a few inches at most, but still its off. Last edited by tlarkin; 02-06-2008 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

02-07-2008, 01:45 AM	#28
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 6,158	I think you might be compensating and anticipating the kick? Not that a 9mm has a lot of kick, none the less, I think you might be expecting or anticipating it and pushing the gun forward as you're squeezing or pulling the trigger (which could be another reason your shots are off) or soon after to compensate for it. That could explain why your shots tend to be below or below and to the right of where you're aiming at. If you noticed I also mentioned something about how you are squeezing or pulling the trigger could also be the or a reason your shots are off. I have gone shooting on many occasions with a police officer I know. He is also a member of his departments SWAT team also. So when he gave me this advice while at the range, I listened,it worked and I've been shooting that way ever since, using a handgun that is. What he suggested was this. Focus on the sights like you normally would and slowly put more focus on the front sight so the rear sight just starts to blur in your line of sight. Also, you may still need to adjust your grip. Wingwiper also gave you good advice and suggestions. I would also suggest getting some snap caps to practice dry firing with, focusing on your grip, how you re-act or how you're reacting when you squeeze the trigger, to see if you indeed are anticipating the bang or in this case the click, lol. Also, practice your grip, try different grips until you find one that suits you the best. Just remember no matter how you grip it, to keep your thumbs or other parts of your hand, below the slide. Slide bites can hurt like the dickens. Also pay attention to where the trigger is on your finger when you fire. As I mentioned above, it could contributing to where your shots are ending up. Also, the next trip to the range, only set the target out to about 10-15 feet for starters. If you ever have to use it for self defense, they say anywhere from about 7 to maybe 21ft is typical. But, there is no need to have your target out to 25-50 ft until you improve. Once you become consistent at what ever distance you choose, and I'll suggest, 15ft. you can always move the target out farther, a little at a time. Then when you're comfortable and have all the kinks worked out, you can set it at the distance you want or for what ever competition you plan on doing. But I truly believe you're anticipating the bang or kick. As mentioned not only by me, but others, the snap caps will assist you greatly and not to mention a lot cheaper. I'm in no way an expert. I can say, that the advice I was given, similar to what I gave you, has improved my shot groups dramatically since I started using it. What is usually my down fall, and there is no fix in the world for it, is the chronic neck and back pain I suffer with on a daily basis. But, I'm sure since you've seen improvement from the advice you've already gotten and with more time and a lot more practice, you'll be shooting even better in no time. No matter how good you get, you should still always practice. When you get better, consistent and confident, also start practicing off hand. If God forbid you ever have to use your firearm to protect yourself or your family, it is a good thing and habit to get into, practicing off hand. Because if your dominant, normal shooting hand ever gets injured, you can still shoot off hand and know you're still capable of making a decent shot. Happy shooting tlarkin. G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 02-07-2008 at 02:03 AM.

02-07-2008, 01:43 PM	#32
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 6,158	Well invest in those snap caps for practicing at home to and it will save some cash. Then when you go to the range, what you do shoot will count even more and you won't be shooting as much ammo in the learning or practice process. It will be shot in the, I enjoy this process. You'll find you'll still spend about the same, until you have to cut back, but it will be out of enjoying it and not out of having to practice. lol G-Meister __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

02-07-2008, 02:53 PM	#34
Montveil Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mountains of NC Posts: 37	Diongonestic pistol target I found a free target that helps determine faults leeprecision.com Dan V in the mountains of NC

01-19-2008, 10:02 PM	#21
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Fired off another 75 rounds or so tonight. This time I was able to get head shots and I was aiming for the head. I think my problem was my grip was letting the gun drop a bit when I was squeezing the trigger. Now I am more accurate. I am going to slowly start putting the target out further and further each session too. I think its cool that after about 1000 rounds with my pistol my aim has already improved pretty well. The next 1000 should improve it even more.

02-04-2008, 04:03 PM	#22
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Well, I am still shooting slightly low and to the right, but it is consistent. So now I need to take the steps to start moving my group to dead center. I bought a roll of giant orange circle stickers so I can see where every bullet hits in my group. What are some ways to adjust it? Grip? How firm should I be gripping the gun? Obviously too tense is not that good for aiming, and too relaxed allows too much give. I am just guessing that is the case. I think I am going to move my target in closer tonight. Start at 20 feet, adjust to get it right, then move it out 20 more feet, then repeat. Maybe I look at getting a different grip tonight too. The gun shop sells those grips that go over your hand gun. Maybe that will make a difference.

02-05-2008, 12:31 PM	#23
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	tlarkin CALL YOUR SHOTS. Try and call where the top of the front sight blade was on the target at the MOMENT of the begining of the RECOIL. Try and get that top of the front sight, at the center of your target when the recoil begins. If you are consistantly in the center and the shots are low to the right, you need sight adjustments. Welcome to the world of shooting. You will never find a sport more relaxing ad rewarding. Do you have problems, mentally put them in the Center ring and start shooting. You will feel so much better. Great sport and great rewards. You are doing EXCELLENT....

02-05-2008, 12:44 PM	#24
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Yeah, I think I don't quite 100% grasp the sight adjustment versus length of shot. It seems I need to have my sight aimed higher at greater distances. At close ranges I was hitting the orange stickers with not a whole lot of issues, but was still aiming a bit low. If it makes it better or worse the hangers at the range seem to hang targets a bit low as well.

02-05-2008, 01:41 PM	#26
mym1a Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,313	are you shooting free hand? if so use a bench for support and see if your still shooting low????? appears to me your elevation needs to be corrected? does the side arm kick a little more then what your use to? maybe you got a flinch that your not aware of? you may want to have a knowledgible person watch you dry fire your pistol?

02-07-2008, 11:20 AM	#29
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Thanks for the advice. I just bought new pistol grips for my handgun, and I haven't shot with them on yet, but I have dry fired and handled it. It feels a lot better with the new rubber pistol grips. Thanks for all the advice I think I may go shooting again this week or next week. I am going through so much ammo though I think I may need to start looking into loading my own to save money. I have already fired about 2500 rounds in the last 6 weeks, and my bank account shows it!

02-07-2008, 12:56 PM	#31
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Yeah but if I save money I can buy another gun.... Yes I am having fun, and yes I want to get good at it. My aim has definitely improved slightly each time I go to the range. I also would like to pay off all my other bills and finally buy a house this year if possible. I am tired of living in an apartment.

02-07-2008, 02:18 PM	#33
Shootester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 218	Why use snap caps when you can use empty shells?

03-03-2008, 12:33 PM	#37
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Well, I think I figured out my problem. The travel distance on my Ruger is fairly long, so now I do a slower more controlled squeeze on the trigger and it seems my accuracy is a lot better. I have been putting the target out at 25 yards now, and while I am not a crack shot yet, I am getting more consistent and hitting the B-34 NRA target with pretty much most of my shots. I also changed my grip and it seems to help. I fired off some guns with better triggers and I am more accurate with them. So, I need to work with pulling the trigger on triggers that have longer travel distance. I think I am pulling them down and to the right. Strangely, at the rifle range this weekend I was doing a bit similar thing with my AK, but only when standing and shooting @ 50 yards. When I was sitting I didn't have that problem. I started adjusting to how my finger lays over the trigger at first I was using more of the tip of my finger and now I am using more of the middle of my finger. Seems to have made a difference. My accuracy is definitely getting better, and my targets generally are better than my friends. Though, they don't shoot as often as I do. Thanks for the advice again guys

03-03-2008, 05:35 PM	#38
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,133	I'll chime in here, I guess. My wife has a Ruger P90 in .45 and I noticed the Rugers in that "series" (I know, not technically correct) tend to be a smidgy bit front-heavy, by and large. I imagine it's so recoil doesn't throw you off too badly. If you keep your grip firm (as it seems you've been) it shouldn't be an issue, but a slightly loose grip can let the barrel droop down just a touch and you might not have been noticing it. - Coeloptera

03-05-2008, 02:18 PM	#39
Wingwiper Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 789	Tlarkin You have done an amazing job. The first real step in becomeing a Better shooter is to admit where you are screwing up and then take the steps to remedy the probem. Another step is to break the routine and try something different, I have tried, I don't know how many times to teach a correct OFF HAND postion to some shooters who refuse to try it, cuz the first time they try it is UNCOMFORTABLE. I try to tell them it is uncomfortable, cuz it is different and once you give it a try you will grow accustom to it. Many refuse and continue to be average or below average Off hand Shooters. You seem to be wanting to learn the Correct way and you are adjusting to the correct ways and not adjusting the ways to you. Congrats on your progress

03-05-2008, 02:53 PM	#40
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,927	Yeah I tried twice shooting left handed, and it was hard hehe. I can't do that with my rifle though, I don't want shells ejecting in my face. I think confidence helps too. I now 'know' I am going to hit my target instead of just 'thinking' I might. All good advice given here and it has all helped me out. I love my Ruger but as far as it goes for shooting pin point accurate, I think it fails in that region. Don't get me wrong, already in 2008 I have fired 3,000 rounds with it with no jams, no issues, not a single problem. Ruger already has a soft spot with me. However, when i fired a friends Kimber 1911 .45 I was grouping a lot tighter and was more accurate with it. I think it may have to mainly due to the travel distance of the trigger. It seems the longer the pull the more I drag the gun down a bit and to the right. The shorter the trigger pull the more accurate I get. I've been trying to adjust my grip to stabilize the difference of a longer trigger pull. In retrospect my buddy prefers longer trigger pulls and he seems to be more accurate with them. Everyone is different I guess. I got this HK USP .40 compact I've been eyeballing for a while. Maybe if the price is right I may just have to pick it up. I've held one and played with one but haven't fired one yet, and it already feels really good in my hands. Thanks again for the advice.