Bugout/SHTF help

[iflylow74]

With everything going on in the world right now, I've been thinking more and more about what my family and I would do in a SHTF situation. I am armed well enough I think but I want yalls opinion on something. I have a 14 yr old son and I dont know what to do about arming him in a SHTF/bugging out scenario. At first, I was thinking arm him so he could defend himself and we could work as a team. But, if the the police/military or whatever are firing at civilians, common sense would dictate they would pick off armed individuals first. What do you guys think I should do?

[mos19k]

What would you do if it was looters and rioters coming toward you instead of federal forces? The first group is much more plausible than the other. Personally I'd want him armed and helping protect the family. I didn't see any mention of your wife, is she armed and if not don't you think she should be.

[iflylow74]

Originally Posted by mos19k

What would you do if it was looters and rioters coming toward you instead of federal forces? The first group is much more plausible than the other. Personally I'd want him armed and helping protect the family. I didn't see any mention of your wife, is she armed and if not don't you think she should be.

Yes, I agree the looter/rioter is much more plausible and I definetly would want him armed in that scenario. I admit, I need to get my wife out and let her practice shooting more. She has shot in the past but its been awhile. But yes, definetly I would want all three of us armed in a looter/rioting scenario.

[Cyrano]

I presume your son and wife can both shoot and hit what they point at. This assumed, we need more information. Not on arming them; take that as a given in the event of civil disorders, which includes all situations in which the forces of order break down for whatever reason. The information we need is on where you live (rural, small town, exurbs, suburbs, city), what are your most likely threats (chemical plant blowing up; nuclear accident; race riots; natural disaster); how many bandits you are likely to have to face; and the probability of their being armed as well.

Forget about a pistol for your son. Think about one for your wife. Pick a caliber that will get it done with one shot if she has to use it. There is much to be said for revolvers in a SHTF scenario because they are simple, have no safeties to worry about and have shotshells available in the larger calibers. The Taurus Judge is a good example of a defense revolver. It will take either .45 Long Colt or .410 shotshells. Loaded birdshot, buckshot, buckshot and then .45 Colt, if the first three rounds don't scare the goblins off the rest will kill them. If you can't afford one, pick up a .357 and load it two 2 rounds of shot and the rest hollowpoints. Same principle applies as to the Judge.

For your wife, unless she is a regular shooter (which you indicated she isn't) I'd arm her with a 12-gauge pump with an 18 or 20 inch barrel. I suggest load it birdshot, then 2 rounds of No. 4, then 00 buck. Again, the idea is to scare off the baddies and kill only if you absolutely must.

If your son is a regular shooter, get him a simple military longarm without too much recoil. I'd suggest an SKS. There is little that can go wrong with one provided you don't muck with it to make it accept detachable magazines. You can get them in NRA Good to what the dealers claim is Unissued. Prices vary from as low as $150 to as high as $300; use $200 as your average price. If you need to lighten it up for him, discard the integral bayonet (all you have to do is remove one screw) and replace the wood stock with a synthetic aftermarket stock. Ammo costs little enough in bulk you can get him well used to the piece and adjust the sights, though you need an aftermarket tool for that. It also has the advantage of giving him a good brush gun for deer.

Hope this advice is of some help to you.

[ArkansasHunter]

Personaly I have to comment I hope the Federal Goverment or the Military never turns on it's citicens for any reason
.
If you can afford an AR-15 M-4 version then buy him one, if not then I would buy him a SKS and fix it up.
You'll need a dump truck full of ammo for either one.
For a side Arm you'll need a high capasity semi-auto pistol.

My son is equipped with the above AR-15..M4, Mossberg 590 Military/Police shotgun and a Glock 40 S&W.
His level of ammo has not been attained yet. And I might add he's in law enforcement but he also is aware America is teetering towards collasp.

[iflylow74]

Thanks for the info guys. Here's a little more about my situation;
1.) I live in a pretty rural area, 5 miles from nearest town of about 2000.
2.) The most likely scenario is Tornado, or an earthquake. I live smack dab on top of the New Madrid fault in Arkansas. Or possible looting from people leaving the nearest relatively large city which is about 15 miles and has 50,000 people.

Overall, Im probably in a good location to bug in. The only reason to move would be either because our home was destroyed or to go get my elderly parents or to stay with them. I do have an SKS that I need to let my son practice with. As for the wife, I could let her use mys sons Remington 870 youth in 20guage with buckshot. I am going to by an AR of some kind within the next month for my use.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by iflylow74

I do have an SKS that I need to let my son practice with. As for the wife, I could let her use my son's Remington 870 youth in 20 gauge with buckshot. I am going to by an AR of some kind within the next month for my use.

Fly, I'd think twice about that AR, unless you are getting it chambered in 7.62x39. One thing you always have to keep in mind in a SHTF scenario, especially one where you are not the only armed person, is ammo compatibility.

Were I you, I'd think real hard about getting a second SKS, and maybe one of the aftermarket receiver cover-scope mount combos if your eyes aren't what they used to be. Even with the additional $50 - $60 for the new receiver cover, scope and rings, it will still cost much less than any AR I've ever seen. I'd spend the difference in price on 7.62 ComBloc and stock up on ammo and stripper clips instead.

[ArkansasHunter]

To me an SKS is the perfect affordable SHTF firearm and every family member should have one that is big enough to shoot.
It's got the fireing capability and the LOOK to Bluff trespassers or to get the job done if it had to be used in a fire fight.
With that said i don't own one yet ...A.H

EDIT iffylow if you live out in the country and your house is lost due to the reason's you stated you should consider a big tent to put up for you and your family and the provishions nessisary to live on until normaity is restored.

[mym1a]

I'm in a relatively peaceful area the people I realy pitty are those stuck close to the cultural diversity, urban areas, if there going to leave they will have little time to do it, if they stay they will have to hunker down for the long haul, because you know the police won't be in there any time to soon,more then likely they would set up a perimeter and let the rioting and looting burn its self out and then go in!

[Big Tool]

I feel it is necessary for every member of the family to be armed and familiar with the weapon of choice. That is if your son is mature enough to accept the responsibility of handling and using a weapon. I say this because the level of maturity of a 14yr old varies greatly from kid to kid. Only you know that as a parent.

For both your son and your wife i would suggest a rifle or shotgun of your choosing. Alittle twitch with a pistol from a nervous shooter can send a bullet way off course. If you do go with a pistol for them i would go with something like the springfield xd 9mm or the ruger sr9 9mm. 9mm has no recoil and ammo is about 1/2 the price of say .45 ammo.. So that means they could practice twice as much. Both of those pistols also have high capacity magazines, and are very ergonamic especially for shooters with small hands "My fiancee claimed my Xd after shooting it, i'm stuck with my .45 1911's"

A good rifle for your son would be a saiga in 7.62x39. I have one and love it. They can be bought for 249.00 brand new. If your not familiar they are russian built ak's that are sporterized "have hunting stocks and 10rd magazines" They also have fantastic chrome lined barrels, and are very accurate, recoil is also very mild and can be shot over and over with no shoulder fatigue. Being an ak you know it will go bang every time,and will shoot any junk ammo you feed it for practice shooting. If your son ever decides to deer hunt it would also be more than suitable for that also. The 7.62x39 is said to be balistically similiar to the 30-30 which has taken alot of white tail deer.

The saiga is also much lighter than a sks, and from every thing i've read ak's are known for being more durable than the sks platform and accuracy will be about the same. There both great guns, but the saiga is just a little more practical than the sks, and you can also get 30rd magazines for the saiga.

[iflylow74]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

I feel it is necessary for every member of the family to be armed and familiar with the weapon of choice. That is if your son is mature enough to accept the responsibility of handling and using a weapon. I say this because the level of maturity of a 14yr old varies greatly from kid to kid. Only you know that as a parent.
For both your son and your wife i would suggest a rifle or shotgun of your choosing. Alittle twitch with a pistol from a nervous shooter can send a bullet way off course. If you do go with a pistol for them i would go with something like the springfield xd 9mm or the ruger sr9 9mm. 9mm has no recoil and ammo is about 1/2 the price of say .45 ammo.. So that means they could practice twice as much. Both of those pistols also have high capacity magazines, and are very ergonamic especially for shooters with small hands "My fiancee claimed my Xd after shooting it, i'm stuck with my .45 1911's"
A good rifle for your son would be a saiga in 7.62x39. I have one and love it. They can be bought for 249.00 brand new. If your not familiar they are russian built ak's that are sporterized "have hunting stocks and 10rd magazines" They also have fantastic chrome lined barrels, and are very accurate, recoil is also very mild and can be shot over and over with no shoulder fatigue. Being an ak you know it will go bang every time,and will shoot any junk ammo you feed it for practice shooting. If your son ever decides to deer hunt it would also be more than suitable for that also. The 7.62x39 is said to be balistically similiar to the 30-30 which has taken alot of white tail deer.
The saiga is also much lighter than a sks, and from every thing i've read ak's are known for being more durable than the sks platform and accuracy will be about the same. There both great guns, but the saiga is just a little more practical than the sks, and you can also get 30rd magazines for the saiga.

I've been seriously considering the Saiga just because it uses the same ammo as my SKS. But, I've also considered the .223 Saiga and an AR for myself, for interoperability reasons of course. So overall, the Saiga is a pretty decent rifle? How is the acuarrcy?

[runfiverun]

if you want something light handy and usefull
i would go with a model 92 in 357 you/he could use 38's also
same cartridge in pistols could arm whole family and adjust factory or re-loads
for the situation ie low recoil,in home defense, hunting, and ammo is well.
available everywhere and interchangeable with all guns involved.
if you think you need more just go to the 44/44special.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by iflylow74

I've been seriously considering the Saiga just because it uses the same ammo as my SKS. But, I've also considered the .223 Saiga and an AR for myself, for interoperability reasons of course. So overall, the Saiga is a pretty decent rifle? How is the acuarrcy?

The saiga is a very decent rifle indeed. One of the few i would trust my life with actually. The saiga will shoot all day with the crap ammo the AR will be jamming on. The AR will be a little more accurate, but honestly for a rifle that cost 1/4 the price and is more reliable, i don't think it's a bad tradeoff. The AR just looks so bad A$$. The saiga is also easily converted into a more tactical setup wich looks awesome.

YouTube - Step 1 - Saiga 7.62x39 Conversion

or you can buy one already converted for 1/2 the price of the AR here. Saiga 7.62x39<br>with Pistol Grip<br>Part #SAI-762PG - SAI-762PG

I'm not much of a shot with iron sights, but my best 3shot group is about 2". I'm sure a better shooter, and a scope could get that down a bit. The trigger is a two stage deal, and takes some getting used to, but after you shoot it a couple times you get used to the pull. If you convert the rifle you must replace the trigger. Most people go with the tapco trigger groups, which are better.

[GlockMeister]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

To me an SKS is the perfect affordable SHTF firearm and every family member should have one that is big enough to shoot.
It's got the fireing capability and the LOOK to Bluff trespassers or to get the job done if it had to be used in a fire fight.
With that said i don't own one yet ...A.H

EDIT iffylow if you live out in the country and your house is lost due to the reason's you stated you should consider a big tent to put up for you and your family and the provishions nessisary to live on until normaity is restored.

I somewhat agree AH. I do like the SKS. They have some drawbacks to them though, they are so heavy to have to carry around all the time and another would be, hard to conceal, they're so dam long. lol

[oldjarhead]

Iflylow74, I live in a very rural Mo landscape, 12 miles to the nearest town of any size. I share your concern. If the SHTF, I believe each member of your household near shooting age needs a rifle(shotgun)/pistol combo to support their self defense. It is difficult for one man to tell another what he needs since there is a total difference in requirements for each. The rifle/pistol combo should be able to serve two basic purposes; that of self-defense and the other of hunting capability. Do not get anything beyond the capability of the family member nor do you want calibers that are somewhat off-the-wall; keep them standard and make sure you can get ammunition at your nearest general store should you need to resupply. A 7.62x39 will do you no good if all the general store sells is 30/30 and 30/06...I think you get my drift. Discuss the needs with each family member involved and let them decide what caliber they may be comfortable with based on your guidelines. It is even fine if all of you decide on having the same combos as, logistically, it would reduce the strain of procuring what you need. Rifles should be capable of long-range with a take down power for medium game. Shotguns and pistols need no explanation since they are both considered short-range anyway. My main course is 06, 308, 45, 357Mag...you can get it at any country store; and, of course, the 12GA.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by oldjarhead

Iflylow74, I live in a very rural Mo landscape, 12 miles to the nearest town of any size. I share your concern. If the SHTF, I believe each member of your household near shooting age needs a rifle(shotgun)/pistol combo to support their self defense. It is difficult for one man to tell another what he needs since there is a total difference in requirements for each. The rifle/pistol combo should be able to serve two basic purposes; that of self-defense and the other of hunting capability. Do not get anything beyond the capability of the family member nor do you want calibers that are somewhat off-the-wall; keep them standard and make sure you can get ammunition at your nearest general store should you need to resupply. A 7.62x39 will do you no good if all the general store sells is 30/30 and 30/06...I think you get my drift. Discuss the needs with each family member involved and let them decide what caliber they may be comfortable with based on your guidelines. It is even fine if all of you decide on having the same combos as, logistically, it would reduce the strain of procuring what you need. Rifles should be capable of long-range with a take down power for medium game. Shotguns and pistols need no explanation since they are both considered short-range anyway. My main course is 06, 308, 45, 357Mag...you can get it at any country store; and, of course, the 12GA.

The good thing is the 7.62x39 ammo can be bought for about .18cents a round. Where as every other ammo whether it be 30/30-30-06 seems to be far north of a dollar a round. For the price of 7.62x39 you can afford to buy a throusand rounds and let them sit there until the time comes. 1,000rds will last a lifetime if used sparingly for taking game.

Same thing for pistols, i would rather a 9mm in a shtf scenario simply because it is about a 1/4 the price to buy and stock up on compared to any of the magnums.

[oldjarhead]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

The good thing is the 7.62x39 ammo can be bought for about .18cents a round. Where as every other ammo whether it be 30/30-30-06 seems to be far north of a dollar a round. For the price of 7.62x39 you can afford to buy a throusand rounds and let them sit there until the time comes. 1,000rds will last a lifetime if used sparingly for taking game.
Same thing for pistols, i would rather a 9mm in a shtf scenario simply because it is about a 1/4 the price to buy and stock up on compared to any of the magnums.

Absolutely correct providing you have a good place to store it. I didn't mean to imply the caliber was poor but that resupply, if needed, could be difficult in a rural region. Unfortunately the price of all ammo keeps going up...even Wolf 7.62x39 (anyway in my area it is). I have a 7.62x39 but consider it nothing more than a medium range bullet pusher, Ruger didn't make the mini-30 for hunting...just not accurate enough. Just for note...military ammo cans seal pretty tight and, IMHO, are the best method of ammo storage. I guess in a shtf situation whatever you have will be good enough. Thanks for your input, Bigtool. Hee hee, if you get them first, you have another weapon and ammo; if they get you first, it won't matter. Oh yeah...I have side dishes for my main course...

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by oldjarhead

Absolutely correct providing you have a good place to store it. I didn't mean to imply the caliber was poor but that resupply, if needed, could be difficult in a rural region. Unfortunately the price of all ammo keeps going up...even Wolf 7.62x39 (anyway in my area it is). I have a 7.62x39 but consider it nothing more than a medium range bullet pusher, Ruger didn't make the mini-30 for hunting...just not accurate enough. Just for note...military ammo cans seal pretty tight and, IMHO, are the best method of ammo storage. I guess in a shtf situation whatever you have will be good enough. Thanks for your input, Bigtool. Hee hee, if you get them first, you have another weapon and ammo; if they get you first, it won't matter. Oh yeah...I have side dishes for my main course...

How much ammo does a rural store carry? I would think the moment anything that requires a lot of ammo went down the store would run out of ammo. No way for it to resupply, you're better off trying to store as much ammo as you think you might need. The Military ammo cans do hold up very well. I've fired ammo from the Korean War, which at that time was over 30 years old, with no problems. As to which caliber you should use, that's a personal choice just try to keep as much as you can on hand.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by mos19k

How much ammo does a rural store carry? I would think the moment anything that requires a lot of ammo went down the store would run out of ammo. No way for it to resupply, you're better off trying to store as much ammo as you think you might need. The Military ammo cans do hold up very well. I've fired ammo from the Korean War, which at that time was over 30 years old, with no problems. As to which caliber you should use, that's a personal choice just try to keep as much as you can on hand.

I order my ammo from cabelas and they throw in a ammo box with the order on bulk ammo. Pretty and i keep a 1,000rds of 7.62x39 on standby if shtf. Not because it is the best round but they are a bit cheaper to stock on than everything other than .22. .22 is another one to have. Ammo is cheap will kill anything if you shoot it in the head.

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

I order my ammo from cabelas and they throw in a ammo box with the order on bulk ammo. Pretty and i keep a 1,000rds of 7.62x39 on standby if shtf. Not because it is the best round but they are a bit cheaper to stock on than everything other than .22. .22 is another one to have. Ammo is cheap will kill anything if you shoot it in the head.

I try to keep an ample supply of ammo for all the calibers I have on hand. One of my favorite rifles is a K-31, it fires the Swiss 7.5. This round is not found at most gun stores, let alone Walmart, so I keep about 1200 rds. I can't imagine using that much it's not a spray and pray rifle it's a precision shooter, one shot one kill, hopefully. As for the 7.62X39, I love that round for general purpose. Fired through my Yugo M70 I get good grouping out to 150 yds and good enough out to 300 yds. I don't want to go down every caliber I have, the point is I rely on my supply of ammo. I'm going to be bugging in, if my situation was different and my primary plan was to bug out then I would probably change my rifle to the Mini-14 that uses .223. Everyone should have a good .22, good small game round and the ammo is everywhere. Just my two cents, I'll wait here for my change.