Bayonet affect accuracy?

jmp8927 · 03-04-2008, 08:37 PM

So I went to sight my SKS in with some Remington ammo and it worked better than wolf. However, it wasn't being consistent. The first shot would hit near center, but others would be about 5 inches away to the left and right. In fact, I got one shot about an inch from bulls eye while the next two hit slightly above and left and right several inches. I have a Norinco with the Tapco T6 stock, sight-tech rear peep, and I put an aftermarket spike bayonet on. My question is, could this be a result of the bayonet messing up the barrel harmonics, or could my barrel be flawed maybe? At any rate, I'd like to identify the problem and fix it somehow. I don't like not being able to get a good group. btw, this is at 100 yards.

C&RFan · 03-04-2008, 09:52 PM

At the risk of getting flamed Id have to say operator error.

marion57 · 03-04-2008, 11:56 PM

I dont know much about the Bayo your speaking of but doubt on a SKS with it under the Barrel it would have much effect on your pattern..the fact that the remington worked better than the wolf would lead me to belive that you could tighten pattern with better ammo.. Are you useing a bench rest when you shoot? I use Brown bear in mine mainly because it is cheap but it seems to have a good pattern.. Unlike a mosin M44 the bayo doesnt effect the left and right of a pattern on a SKS!

Big Dog · 03-05-2008, 05:16 AM

Since you have replaced the stock, I would look there first. How secure is the barreled action in the stock? Any wobble? Any movement in there translates to poor accuracy and consistency.
You can shim under the barrel in the barrel channel to firm up the barrel, or even do a full bedding job.
The one time I used a synthetic stock on an SKS, it had no recoil lug, and the action got loose after shooting awhile.

jmp8927 · 03-05-2008, 06:39 AM

I did use a bench and I did not rest the barrel on anything. All I can figure is the barrel could be flawed, or my eyes are just horrible(which could be it...). Only other thing I can figure is that it's an error on my part because the front post just covers up bullseye on the target. Would it help any to file the front post sort of to a point? That would give it a wedge shape when looking at it and would probably make it more precise. Basially I'm open to about anything because I hate to think I can't put multiple shot in a head-size object at 100 yards.

GlockMeister · 03-05-2008, 06:51 AM

A few questions I'd have to ask would be, in sighting it in, did you use a gun rest or bench or something similar per chance? Or did you do this free hand? Were you using iron sights or scope?

offroader1994 · 03-05-2008, 07:32 AM

I may be the odd ball of the group. The SKS was made to hit a center mass on a man size target at 100 yds or so not to be a sniper rifle. This just my opinion.

jmp8927 · 03-05-2008, 08:54 AM

I was using open sights(sight tech rear) with a bench. It was slightly breezy that day, but I don't think it was enough to affect the bullet at only 100 yards. As for the SKS not being accurate, I imagine it's supposed to do better than a group of 10 inches. From what others can get with their SKSs, I would think mine is capable of 3 inches with a good scope and mount, but I don't have one so I was hoping for about 5 inches at 100 with open sights. I would be quite content with that.

marion57 · 03-05-2008, 08:54 AM

I would do like big Dog said and go to stock first1! Then work your way down to problem
2 I would try different ammo
3 As was stated above a 8 or 9 inch target with open sites on a SKS ( which are poor at best)is asking a lot of the marksman
I dont know about the peep sites on your rifle but I havwe trouble seeing target with peep sites and do you know that the front site is adjustable verically and left and right ?

jmp8927 · 03-05-2008, 09:02 AM

Yes. However, the sight tech peep is as well. It's designed after the M-Garand and M-16 rear sights. It's a lot easier to adjust the rear sight so I only use the front for elevation. Elevation-wise, my rifle varies about 2-3 inches. As for the stock, I don't have the original. I bought my rifle from my brother and he had the folding stock on it. I think when he got it from a gunshow it already had the folding on it. I also don't have the original rear sight leaf. That's somewhere in my brother's yard. The replacement I bought doesn't work(flies off after 3-5 shots) thus why I tried the rear peep. I like the peep a lot now because it extends the distance between sights and thus theoretically improving the accuracy of the sights. It does cut down on viability very slightly, but not by much. I don't think I'd go back to stocks sights even if I had some that worked. My Tapco stock fits tighter than the folding and my Dad's Monte Carlo.

SwedeSteve · 03-05-2008, 01:02 PM

jmp- The one thing I can think of is your Tech Sight is slightly loose. Maybe just a hair and that's all it takes! Do you have the instructions for them? It is very important that it be tightened in just the correct manner! Let me know, I can send the instructions to you if needed.

jmp8927 · 03-05-2008, 05:53 PM

Yes I got instructions with them and put it on accordingly. That just made me paranoid and I had to grab my rifle and check. I tried moving it with my hand and I can't notice any.

SwedeSteve · 03-05-2008, 09:00 PM

jmp- If you can slip a piece of paper under the four brass allen screws, they are loose. If not, theny they are tight and that is not the problem. One note of caution, do not overtighten them, as per instructions...

mitch_mckee · 03-05-2008, 09:31 PM

5 MOA is common for the SKS. It is what it is. Rugged, reliable, cheap to own and shoot but not ever a tack driver.

After market stocks tend to make accuracy worse especially if they are folders. The slight wobble makes consistency impossible.

I suspect that your SKS is acting about normally. Mine does about 4-5 moa.

jmp8927 · 03-05-2008, 09:53 PM

I don't see how a stock folding could possibly make the rifle less accurate. That folding part has nothing to do with how accurate the rifle is. And no, I'm not using the folding. The Tapco telescopes so it should make me more accurate as it's adjustable to fit me. As for the set screws, they are tight. Can't slide anything between them and the receiver. They aren't overly tight( I don't think they are anyway) because I can still remove the sight fairly easily to clean it and put it back on pretty well. I have to use something skinny to push the bolt out as it's too tight to pull out with my fingernail, but when putting it back on I can easily push the bolt back through with my bare hands(that will only make sense if you've had experience with sight-techs). Maybe I'll switch it out with my Dad's Monte Carlo stock and see if it changes. I don't have anymore Remington(I only had one 20rd box) so I'll see how it does with Wolf. I can't afford to buy good stuff right now(or crappy for that matter. Being broke sucks).

mitch_mckee · 03-05-2008, 11:31 PM

A collapsable or folding stock wiggles a bit from the moment you pull the trigger. I've never seen a collapsable stock of any kind on a target or sniper rifle. They have their uses but accuracy is not one.

Next observation: Target shooters don't use removable sighting systems because they are hopeless for accuracy. A system that gets removed for cleaning all the time will rarely go to the same zero once re installed. It might be close enough for government work but that's about 5 moa at best.

An SKS is a rough use rifle that is extrodinarily durable and reliable (it always goes bang) but you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. It's a hard use survival gun, in it's original configuration. It is a poor man's deer rifle. It is just reasonably accurate. It is not a modern assault rifle no matter how much stuff one sticks on it.

My ChiCom SKS resides in the hold of my boat. It is in a somewhat damp environment, in a bag, with 120 rounds ammo. It will get beaten by waves on a regular basis. I have full confidence that if I oil it occasionally, it will be ready to rock if necessary. I think that is the best use for an SKS.

jmp8927 · 03-06-2008, 06:36 AM

The sight tech rear sight is designed to come off and go back on exactly as before.It may be very very slightly off, but I don't believe it would knock it off more than an inch at the most(I think that would be extreme). But either way, I tried sighting it in and didn't take the sight off. It hasn't moved at all. I think I may go ahead and make my front sight post pointed a little to give me a wedge shaped view when looking at it. It'll completely throw the sights off until I can sight it back in, but it should be easier to set on a smaller target at 100.

SwedeSteve · 03-06-2008, 02:49 PM

jmp- I have had my Tech Sight on and off a dozen times or so, and it still shoots the same POA. It's a great sight. There was a post somewhere about slipping some thin shrink tubing on a front sight post to help with elev problems. I think you could do something similar and cut an inverted V. Also, they sell, at TAPCO I believe, a set of colored front sight posts that you could doctor up.

jmp8927 · 03-06-2008, 02:57 PM

I've been thinking about the colored front sight posts for a while now but just haven't taken the time to order them. I'm gonna have to stop being overly frugal with my money I guess...anyway, thanks for the input guys. Gives a few ideas on what could be done. It'll be a while before I can test it properly(lack of time and high quality ammo), so I'll have to post sometime in the future on results.

Cyrano · 03-06-2008, 03:03 PM

Some people have had good luck painting the front post with red nail polish, too. Do you have a front sight adjustment tool? That might help as well, before you resort to filing the post.

In the For What It's Worth department, a Yugo will give you a better pattern if you set the gas valve to the single shot position intended for use with rifle grenades. It turns the rifle into a straight pull bolt action, but it takes the gas pistion out of the equation. That goes a long way toward keeping the sights on target and easing the barrel harmonics, because you won't have this comparatively heavy gas piston moving back and forth.

Commerical ammo as opposed to milsurp will also help improve your groups.

03-04-2008, 08:37 PM	#1
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	Bayonet affect accuracy? So I went to sight my SKS in with some Remington ammo and it worked better than wolf. However, it wasn't being consistent. The first shot would hit near center, but others would be about 5 inches away to the left and right. In fact, I got one shot about an inch from bulls eye while the next two hit slightly above and left and right several inches. I have a Norinco with the Tapco T6 stock, sight-tech rear peep, and I put an aftermarket spike bayonet on. My question is, could this be a result of the bayonet messing up the barrel harmonics, or could my barrel be flawed maybe? At any rate, I'd like to identify the problem and fix it somehow. I don't like not being able to get a good group. btw, this is at 100 yards. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-05-2008, 05:16 AM	#4
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,069 Trader Rating: (0)	Since you have replaced the stock, I would look there first. How secure is the barreled action in the stock? Any wobble? Any movement in there translates to poor accuracy and consistency. You can shim under the barrel in the barrel channel to firm up the barrel, or even do a full bedding job. The one time I used a synthetic stock on an SKS, it had no recoil lug, and the action got loose after shooting awhile. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

03-05-2008, 06:39 AM	#5
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	I did use a bench and I did not rest the barrel on anything. All I can figure is the barrel could be flawed, or my eyes are just horrible(which could be it...). Only other thing I can figure is that it's an error on my part because the front post just covers up bullseye on the target. Would it help any to file the front post sort of to a point? That would give it a wedge shape when looking at it and would probably make it more precise. Basially I'm open to about anything because I hate to think I can't put multiple shot in a head-size object at 100 yards. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-05-2008, 06:51 AM	#6
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,952 Trader Rating: (0)	A few questions I'd have to ask would be, in sighting it in, did you use a gun rest or bench or something similar per chance? Or did you do this free hand? Were you using iron sights or scope? __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6! Last edited by GlockMeister; 03-05-2008 at 07:06 AM.

03-05-2008, 08:54 AM	#8
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	I was using open sights(sight tech rear) with a bench. It was slightly breezy that day, but I don't think it was enough to affect the bullet at only 100 yards. As for the SKS not being accurate, I imagine it's supposed to do better than a group of 10 inches. From what others can get with their SKSs, I would think mine is capable of 3 inches with a good scope and mount, but I don't have one so I was hoping for about 5 inches at 100 with open sights. I would be quite content with that. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-04-2008, 09:52 PM	#2
C&RFan Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23 Trader Rating: (0)	At the risk of getting flamed Id have to say operator error.

03-04-2008, 11:56 PM	#3
marion57 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,692 Trader Rating: (0)	I dont know much about the Bayo your speaking of but doubt on a SKS with it under the Barrel it would have much effect on your pattern..the fact that the remington worked better than the wolf would lead me to belive that you could tighten pattern with better ammo.. Are you useing a bench rest when you shoot? I use Brown bear in mine mainly because it is cheap but it seems to have a good pattern.. Unlike a mosin M44 the bayo doesnt effect the left and right of a pattern on a SKS!

03-05-2008, 07:32 AM	#7
offroader1994 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: east Tn. Posts: 83 Trader Rating: (0)	I may be the odd ball of the group. The SKS was made to hit a center mass on a man size target at 100 yds or so not to be a sniper rifle. This just my opinion.

03-05-2008, 09:02 AM	#10
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	Yes. However, the sight tech peep is as well. It's designed after the M-Garand and M-16 rear sights. It's a lot easier to adjust the rear sight so I only use the front for elevation. Elevation-wise, my rifle varies about 2-3 inches. As for the stock, I don't have the original. I bought my rifle from my brother and he had the folding stock on it. I think when he got it from a gunshow it already had the folding on it. I also don't have the original rear sight leaf. That's somewhere in my brother's yard. The replacement I bought doesn't work(flies off after 3-5 shots) thus why I tried the rear peep. I like the peep a lot now because it extends the distance between sights and thus theoretically improving the accuracy of the sights. It does cut down on viability very slightly, but not by much. I don't think I'd go back to stocks sights even if I had some that worked. My Tapco stock fits tighter than the folding and my Dad's Monte Carlo. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-05-2008, 01:02 PM	#11
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,136 Trader Rating: (0)	jmp- The one thing I can think of is your Tech Sight is slightly loose. Maybe just a hair and that's all it takes! Do you have the instructions for them? It is very important that it be tightened in just the correct manner! Let me know, I can send the instructions to you if needed. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-05-2008, 05:53 PM	#12
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	Yes I got instructions with them and put it on accordingly. That just made me paranoid and I had to grab my rifle and check. I tried moving it with my hand and I can't notice any. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-05-2008, 09:00 PM	#13
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,136 Trader Rating: (0)	jmp- If you can slip a piece of paper under the four brass allen screws, they are loose. If not, theny they are tight and that is not the problem. One note of caution, do not overtighten them, as per instructions... __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-05-2008, 09:31 PM	#14
mitch_mckee Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,086 Trader Rating: (0)	5 MOA is common for the SKS. It is what it is. Rugged, reliable, cheap to own and shoot but not ever a tack driver. After market stocks tend to make accuracy worse especially if they are folders. The slight wobble makes consistency impossible. I suspect that your SKS is acting about normally. Mine does about 4-5 moa.

03-05-2008, 09:53 PM	#15
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	I don't see how a stock folding could possibly make the rifle less accurate. That folding part has nothing to do with how accurate the rifle is. And no, I'm not using the folding. The Tapco telescopes so it should make me more accurate as it's adjustable to fit me. As for the set screws, they are tight. Can't slide anything between them and the receiver. They aren't overly tight( I don't think they are anyway) because I can still remove the sight fairly easily to clean it and put it back on pretty well. I have to use something skinny to push the bolt out as it's too tight to pull out with my fingernail, but when putting it back on I can easily push the bolt back through with my bare hands(that will only make sense if you've had experience with sight-techs). Maybe I'll switch it out with my Dad's Monte Carlo stock and see if it changes. I don't have anymore Remington(I only had one 20rd box) so I'll see how it does with Wolf. I can't afford to buy good stuff right now(or crappy for that matter. Being broke sucks). __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-05-2008, 11:31 PM	#16
mitch_mckee Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 1,086 Trader Rating: (0)	A collapsable or folding stock wiggles a bit from the moment you pull the trigger. I've never seen a collapsable stock of any kind on a target or sniper rifle. They have their uses but accuracy is not one. Next observation: Target shooters don't use removable sighting systems because they are hopeless for accuracy. A system that gets removed for cleaning all the time will rarely go to the same zero once re installed. It might be close enough for government work but that's about 5 moa at best. An SKS is a rough use rifle that is extrodinarily durable and reliable (it always goes bang) but you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. It's a hard use survival gun, in it's original configuration. It is a poor man's deer rifle. It is just reasonably accurate. It is not a modern assault rifle no matter how much stuff one sticks on it. My ChiCom SKS resides in the hold of my boat. It is in a somewhat damp environment, in a bag, with 120 rounds ammo. It will get beaten by waves on a regular basis. I have full confidence that if I oil it occasionally, it will be ready to rock if necessary. I think that is the best use for an SKS.

03-06-2008, 06:36 AM	#17
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	The sight tech rear sight is designed to come off and go back on exactly as before.It may be very very slightly off, but I don't believe it would knock it off more than an inch at the most(I think that would be extreme). But either way, I tried sighting it in and didn't take the sight off. It hasn't moved at all. I think I may go ahead and make my front sight post pointed a little to give me a wedge shaped view when looking at it. It'll completely throw the sights off until I can sight it back in, but it should be easier to set on a smaller target at 100. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-06-2008, 02:49 PM	#18
SwedeSteve Grumpy Old Fart Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: AnchorTown, Alaska Posts: 9,136 Trader Rating: (0)	jmp- I have had my Tech Sight on and off a dozen times or so, and it still shoots the same POA. It's a great sight. There was a post somewhere about slipping some thin shrink tubing on a front sight post to help with elev problems. I think you could do something similar and cut an inverted V. Also, they sell, at TAPCO I believe, a set of colored front sight posts that you could doctor up. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-06-2008, 02:57 PM	#19
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,103 Trader Rating: (0)	I've been thinking about the colored front sight posts for a while now but just haven't taken the time to order them. I'm gonna have to stop being overly frugal with my money I guess...anyway, thanks for the input guys. Gives a few ideas on what could be done. It'll be a while before I can test it properly(lack of time and high quality ammo), so I'll have to post sometime in the future on results. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

03-06-2008, 03:03 PM	#20
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,964 Trader Rating: (0)	Some people have had good luck painting the front post with red nail polish, too. Do you have a front sight adjustment tool? That might help as well, before you resort to filing the post. In the For What It's Worth department, a Yugo will give you a better pattern if you set the gas valve to the single shot position intended for use with rifle grenades. It turns the rifle into a straight pull bolt action, but it takes the gas pistion out of the equation. That goes a long way toward keeping the sights on target and easing the barrel harmonics, because you won't have this comparatively heavy gas piston moving back and forth. Commerical ammo as opposed to milsurp will also help improve your groups.