Q About Failed to Fire and new-to-me S&W 686

jmichna · 03-09-2008, 10:56 PM

As I mentioned in another thread, I got a great deal on a used S&W 686 4" 6-shot, that looks to be in great shape. Took her on the range today... between my daughter and I we put 200 rounds of Speer .38 Special 158 grain Gold Dot, and 75 rounds of Magtech .357 Mag 158 grain hollow point.

Two rounds of the .38 Special failed to fire, so we compared these two rounds to fired casings from both the .38 Special and the .357 Mag ammo. On the two that did not fire, the primer caps were not deeply struck by the firing pin compared to the normal rounds. Also, it seemed that the primer caps were more deeply set (recessed) into the brass casing compared to the "normal" casings.

I've never really shot much .38 or .357 ammo, so I'm wondering if this is common, or should I keep a close watch on the 686 as the culprit? Other wise the gun functioned flawlessly, and was a real blast to shoot.

TXplt · 03-09-2008, 11:05 PM

Not common. Same ammo type ? I'd give the gun a very thorough cleaning (especially internals) and keep an eye on it.

Deep13 · 03-10-2008, 04:53 PM

Don't think I have ever had a FTF with a center-fire revolver. So, yeah, that's pretty strange. Sounds like an ammo failure based on what you described.

AKHunter · 03-11-2008, 01:50 AM

It sounds like, by your description of the primer inset, that the primer pocket was too deep, the primer pocket was out of tolerance/too loose or the primer was fubar.

Those are my suspicions.

jmichna · 03-11-2008, 11:15 AM

Thanks, all, for your replies. I too suspect the ammo was the culprit, but we'll see as we put more rounds through this revolver. Our other hand guns are semi-autos, and I have to tell you, shooting a wheel gun was a blast!

I'm really proud of my 14 year old daughter... previously the only "heavier ammo" she's fired were .38 Special range loads at an NRA Beginner's Hand Gun class a few months ago... otherwise, all she's shot have been her .22 Buck Mark and my Springfield Armory XD9 9mm semi-auto.

Right out of the box, she kept every .357 mag round on the paper at 21 feet, and even started to group toward the end of the range session. Her only "complaint" is she has to re-load after only six shots!

Coeloptera · 03-11-2008, 12:21 PM

I can't add too much (aside from the fact that I really like the 686, although I prefer the 7-shot 6" barrel) aside from the fact that if the primer was recessed enough for you to notice that fact, then likely it was recessed enough to keep the firing pin from striking deeply enough.

I had a weird FTF my last time at the range with my Taurus 608 using .38 Special ammo. I wish I'd remembered the brand. It wasn't exactly a FTF either, it was a failure of the cylinder to advance. Turns out one of the .38 Special rounds had a bead of metal on the primer cap that caught in the space between cylinder and frame, keeping the cylinder from turning.

I couldn't say if this is just something with .38s or what, but I would have hated that to happen in an emergency.

But if your daughter likes the 686 but hates reloading after 6, you could always look into the 7 or 8-shot .357 Magnums out there. I'm a big capacity whore so I love my 8-shot 608. It handles very similarly to the S&W 686 (which is the most common wheelgun I rented before purchasing the Taurus 608).

- Coeloptera

LefthandShooter · 03-15-2008, 08:09 AM

I've shot my 686 over 5000 times but have had a few FTF with different brands of ammo (almost always with the cheaper off-brand stuff). In 99.9% of the time it was a primer seating issue. I've had my firing pin checked out to be safe (not worn) so I think I can say it is the ammo.
My wife and 13 yr old son (shooting since 11) both LOVE shooting .38's more than the 4 M&P's I have. Best guess is the accuracy factor but also just a fun gun to shoot as less recoil!
I can't get either to shoot my S&W 629 Classic .44 magnum though!
Can't get the Ruger Mark II away from either one either.

madcratebuilder · 03-15-2008, 09:49 AM

I agree with primer seating issues. The only time i have had a FTF in a wheel gun is from that.

Taurus Fan · 03-15-2008, 06:52 PM

It could be that your used Smith has had a trigger job that was a tad too ambitious, that's not uncommon. Too light a hammer fall and you'll see primers sporadically fail to go off, which could actually be dangerous. I had a Colt Trooper with a horrible trigger that a smith put a lighter spring kit in, started having misfires. Sucked.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 03-28-2008, 09:49 PM

I have a S&W 681 which is very close to a 686. I have taken 5 different women out to the range for "the first time they shot a gun" shooting. ALL of them liked the 681 .357 better than any other handgun they fired. They also shot an 8 shot .22, a 1911, a CZ 9. I don't know what else they may have shot. Too many guns to remember.

kygunsmith · 03-28-2008, 10:08 PM

Maybe that's why there are overlength firing pins for S&W available?

azgunnut · 04-02-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmichna

As I mentioned in another thread, I got a great deal on a used S&W 686 4" 6-shot, that looks to be in great shape. Took her on the range today... between my daughter and I we put 200 rounds of Speer .38 Special 158 grain Gold Dot, and 75 rounds of Magtech .357 Mag 158 grain hollow point.

Two rounds of the .38 Special failed to fire, so we compared these two rounds to fired casings from both the .38 Special and the .357 Mag ammo. On the two that did not fire, the primer caps were not deeply struck by the firing pin compared to the normal rounds. Also, it seemed that the primer caps were more deeply set (recessed) into the brass casing compared to the "normal" casings.

I've never really shot much .38 or .357 ammo, so I'm wondering if this is common, or should I keep a close watch on the 686 as the culprit? Other wise the gun functioned flawlessly, and was a real blast to shoot.

The .38 rounds had the primer set too deeply, is the impression I am getting. Shoot some more .357 in same grain and see if it happens again. If it works well, try some new 38's not reloads.
If it does FTF, take it to a qualified gunsmith and have him/her give your gun a good look over to see what the problem is.

"Why do I carry concealed, because the police are only 3-4 minutes away, and a cop is too heavy to carry around."

jmichna · 04-03-2008, 08:49 AM

We did experience more light strikes on the primer, both .38 and .357 ammo... almost all in double action (only one in single action), so I had our local gun smith check it out... he thought the previous owner had adjusted the trigger to lighten trigger pull; so he adjusted tension back toward what he felt was more normal. We still need to get back to the range and check it out.

kanderson586 · 04-19-2008, 05:56 PM

gotta be the ammo.

TXplt · 04-19-2008, 08:49 PM

Sounds like the spring to me. I'd replace the mainspring.

Resources\Ordering

GlockMeister · 04-19-2008, 09:01 PM

Check how much, if any, cylinder play/travel (back and forth) it has? It's possible it may have some play. If so, it is easily fixable. And it would explain the lack of strike on the few that didn't fire.

Obviously if there is no play/travel then it's something else. At least check it and eliminate it as the cause. Then inspect the hammer nose and hammer spring. Check the most obvious areas first. Good luck.

LefthandShooter · 04-20-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmichna

We still need to get back to the range and check it out.

Please keep us posted after the next range visit!
Thanks!

alaskamonte · 04-20-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmichna

We did experience more light strikes on the primer, both .38 and .357 ammo... almost all in double action (only one in single action), so I had our local gun smith check it out... he thought the previous owner had adjusted the trigger to lighten trigger pull; so he adjusted tension back toward what he felt was more normal. We still need to get back to the range and check it out.

Strain screw was loose!

03-09-2008, 10:56 PM	#1
jmichna Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 43	Q About Failed to Fire and new-to-me S&W 686 As I mentioned in another thread, I got a great deal on a used S&W 686 4" 6-shot, that looks to be in great shape. Took her on the range today... between my daughter and I we put 200 rounds of Speer .38 Special 158 grain Gold Dot, and 75 rounds of Magtech .357 Mag 158 grain hollow point. Two rounds of the .38 Special failed to fire, so we compared these two rounds to fired casings from both the .38 Special and the .357 Mag ammo. On the two that did not fire, the primer caps were not deeply struck by the firing pin compared to the normal rounds. Also, it seemed that the primer caps were more deeply set (recessed) into the brass casing compared to the "normal" casings. I've never really shot much .38 or .357 ammo, so I'm wondering if this is common, or should I keep a close watch on the 686 as the culprit? Other wise the gun functioned flawlessly, and was a real blast to shoot.

03-09-2008, 11:05 PM	#2
TXplt Conservative in Exile Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3,116 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Not common. Same ammo type ? I'd give the gun a very thorough cleaning (especially internals) and keep an eye on it. __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

03-15-2008, 09:49 AM	#8
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 845	I agree with primer seating issues. The only time i have had a FTF in a wheel gun is from that. __________________ The difference between a hot dog and a weenie is a fine line.....

03-15-2008, 06:52 PM	#9
Taurus Fan Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cobra Command Headquarters Posts: 880	It could be that your used Smith has had a trigger job that was a tad too ambitious, that's not uncommon. Too light a hammer fall and you'll see primers sporadically fail to go off, which could actually be dangerous. I had a Colt Trooper with a horrible trigger that a smith put a lighter spring kit in, started having misfires. Sucked. Last edited by Taurus Fan; 03-15-2008 at 07:04 PM.

04-19-2008, 08:49 PM	#15
TXplt Conservative in Exile Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 3,116 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Sounds like the spring to me. I'd replace the mainspring. Resources\Ordering __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

03-10-2008, 04:53 PM	#3
Deep13 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 269	Don't think I have ever had a FTF with a center-fire revolver. So, yeah, that's pretty strange. Sounds like an ammo failure based on what you described.

03-11-2008, 01:50 AM	#4
AKHunter Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 899	It sounds like, by your description of the primer inset, that the primer pocket was too deep, the primer pocket was out of tolerance/too loose or the primer was fubar. Those are my suspicions.

03-11-2008, 11:15 AM	#5
jmichna Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 43	Thanks, all, for your replies. I too suspect the ammo was the culprit, but we'll see as we put more rounds through this revolver. Our other hand guns are semi-autos, and I have to tell you, shooting a wheel gun was a blast! I'm really proud of my 14 year old daughter... previously the only "heavier ammo" she's fired were .38 Special range loads at an NRA Beginner's Hand Gun class a few months ago... otherwise, all she's shot have been her .22 Buck Mark and my Springfield Armory XD9 9mm semi-auto. Right out of the box, she kept every .357 mag round on the paper at 21 feet, and even started to group toward the end of the range session. Her only "complaint" is she has to re-load after only six shots!

03-11-2008, 12:21 PM	#6
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 2,133	I can't add too much (aside from the fact that I really like the 686, although I prefer the 7-shot 6" barrel) aside from the fact that if the primer was recessed enough for you to notice that fact, then likely it was recessed enough to keep the firing pin from striking deeply enough. I had a weird FTF my last time at the range with my Taurus 608 using .38 Special ammo. I wish I'd remembered the brand. It wasn't exactly a FTF either, it was a failure of the cylinder to advance. Turns out one of the .38 Special rounds had a bead of metal on the primer cap that caught in the space between cylinder and frame, keeping the cylinder from turning. I couldn't say if this is just something with .38s or what, but I would have hated that to happen in an emergency. But if your daughter likes the 686 but hates reloading after 6, you could always look into the 7 or 8-shot .357 Magnums out there. I'm a big capacity whore so I love my 8-shot 608. It handles very similarly to the S&W 686 (which is the most common wheelgun I rented before purchasing the Taurus 608). - Coeloptera

03-15-2008, 08:09 AM	#7
LefthandShooter Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In A House in NE Ohio! Posts: 1,685	I've shot my 686 over 5000 times but have had a few FTF with different brands of ammo (almost always with the cheaper off-brand stuff). In 99.9% of the time it was a primer seating issue. I've had my firing pin checked out to be safe (not worn) so I think I can say it is the ammo. My wife and 13 yr old son (shooting since 11) both LOVE shooting .38's more than the 4 M&P's I have. Best guess is the accuracy factor but also just a fun gun to shoot as less recoil! I can't get either to shoot my S&W 629 Classic .44 magnum though! Can't get the Ruger Mark II away from either one either.

03-28-2008, 10:08 PM	#11
kygunsmith Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 146	Maybe that's why there are overlength firing pins for S&W available?

04-03-2008, 08:49 AM	#13
jmichna Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 43	We did experience more light strikes on the primer, both .38 and .357 ammo... almost all in double action (only one in single action), so I had our local gun smith check it out... he thought the previous owner had adjusted the trigger to lighten trigger pull; so he adjusted tension back toward what he felt was more normal. We still need to get back to the range and check it out.

04-19-2008, 05:56 PM	#14
kanderson586 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: ne minneapolis Posts: 3	gotta be the ammo.

04-19-2008, 09:01 PM	#16
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 6,156	Check how much, if any, cylinder play/travel (back and forth) it has? It's possible it may have some play. If so, it is easily fixable. And it would explain the lack of strike on the few that didn't fire. Obviously if there is no play/travel then it's something else. At least check it and eliminate it as the cause. Then inspect the hammer nose and hammer spring. Check the most obvious areas first. Good luck. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!