Staking, rear`adjustable sight

Jettty Jay · 03-18-2008, 04:03 PM

Here's my questions, I have a mixed early Winchester/receiver/Winchester stock?/ underwood Barrel 1-44, with a type 3 adjustable rear sight. Stamped on the right side of the sight is J.A.O. and a serial #. I just took the gun out back to target shoot and noticed that it shoots to the right of POA. By tuning it to the left I can hit dead center. But I noticed that the staking punch marks are not lined up and if I drifted the sight to the left (the base appears to favor the right noticably) I can bring the adjustment knob closer to dead center. Should I try to drift the sight to the left?
Should I use a wooden dowel and rubber mallet, So I do not cause scratches to the gun.
Should I use a solvent first to loosen the base?
Or should I leave it alone? The movable peep at this point has to be to the far left to compensate for the base being towards the right.
One other question for you fellows. The stock has the cross cannons and ball stamp. No P present on the grip, inside the beveled slot I can barely make out the letters O-PM or O-RM The stock is a high wood stock with a late Winchester butt plate.
How can I tell whether it is a Winchester stock?
I read somewhere that if the fore end has a straight line flat area at the butt plate it's a Winchester stock??
Any help is greatly appreciated. Jay

ggordon · 03-18-2008, 04:10 PM

Winchester stamped WRA (Winchester Repeating Arms) on the side of the butt stock on their M1 carbines. Of course, this could have worn away with handling.

Good luck.

Jettty Jay · 03-18-2008, 04:19 PM

Thanks for the info, I cannot see the WRA anywhere.
The side is smooth and appears to be original. The crossed cannons are there but not deeply stamped. Jay

M14man · 03-18-2008, 08:51 PM

Drifting the sight to better center it has to be your judgement call. If it has come loose and the staking is light, it will take no effort to move it so the sights would be more centered when adjusted. Then glue or restake depending on your skill. If on the otherhand, it is heavily staked, you run the risk of loosening it up when you drift it, to the point you will have to restake or glue it, to hold.

oldjarhead · 03-18-2008, 11:01 PM

I have a carbine with the same problem. Tap the sights to the center and restake them, it's no big deal. Use a small center punch and tap the stake "tab" after you get the rear sights set. It shouldn't take much. Tap the tab, check the sights, if still loose tap the tab again. I did this and it definately improved sight accuracy and the ability to minutely adjust windage.

Dookiebutt · 03-19-2008, 06:27 AM

I'd leave it alone. The sights were staked in place with a jig that went around the sight base and the dovetailed part of the receiver. That does not mean you couldn't move it. Just remember that many carbines have the windage cranked way over.

The Winny stock will be flat in front of the magazine well, at the bottom of the forestock. If you have another stock to compare it to, that will make it easier.

jimb2 · 03-19-2008, 07:32 PM

From your description of the sling bevel markings, I think it is probably a lightly stamped Q-RMC. Rock-Ola Manufacturing Company for Quality Hardware. Use a brass drift on the rear sight. If there are any brass smears, they can be easily removed with gun cleaning solvent.

Jettty Jay · 03-20-2008, 10:05 AM

Thanks guys for all the info. I removed the receiver/barrel assembly from the stock before attempting to drift the sight base. I knew that not doing so could damage the stock. I only had a plastic or nylon drift. I put a piece of doubled masking tape on the side of the sight and tapped and tapped and NOTHING! So I will try to get a brass drift and solvent and try again. The sight base favors the right side of the receiver and the stake marks look misalligned. I am sure if I can center the base or at least move it a little to the left the windage will be more towards center on POA.

oldjarhead · 03-20-2008, 10:40 AM

The stake marks aren't misaligned. They are staggered abit to ensure a good grip. One for the dovetail into the sight base and the other for the sight base into the dovetail. You may find some with the double stakes and some with only single stakes. I guess it was the armorer's discretion.
Brass is the best...plastic/nylon will absorb the energy of the impact and do little to move the sights.
Just tap, tap, tap but don't let frustration take hold of you and make you slam dunk the sight...patience is bliss...LOL

Jettty Jay · 03-20-2008, 07:32 PM

Thanks, OJH. That makes sense, to offset the punch marks to lock it tight. I will try to get a brass drift from my gun shop or a hardware store and give it another try. ~JAY~

jimb2 · 03-22-2008, 11:57 PM

And try working the rear sight from side to side also. Sometimes that is what it takes to break the staking free of the sight. And don't be TOO gentle with the tapping. Sometimes it takes some pretty good raps. Just be careful not to hit at an upward angle or you could break off the rear dovetail.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 03-25-2008, 01:44 PM

I think JimB is right on as far as the stock being manufactured by Rock-Ola for Quality Hardware. That mark is Q-RMC in the sling slot. The escutcheons the crossed cannons tell you what company built the actual rifle. If you can get a pic of them I can tell you if that is the correct stock or if it was slapped together later.

03-18-2008, 04:03 PM	#1
Jettty Jay Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Trader Rating: (0)	Staking, rear`adjustable sight Here's my questions, I have a mixed early Winchester/receiver/Winchester stock?/ underwood Barrel 1-44, with a type 3 adjustable rear sight. Stamped on the right side of the sight is J.A.O. and a serial #. I just took the gun out back to target shoot and noticed that it shoots to the right of POA. By tuning it to the left I can hit dead center. But I noticed that the staking punch marks are not lined up and if I drifted the sight to the left (the base appears to favor the right noticably) I can bring the adjustment knob closer to dead center. Should I try to drift the sight to the left? Should I use a wooden dowel and rubber mallet, So I do not cause scratches to the gun. Should I use a solvent first to loosen the base? Or should I leave it alone? The movable peep at this point has to be to the far left to compensate for the base being towards the right. One other question for you fellows. The stock has the cross cannons and ball stamp. No P present on the grip, inside the beveled slot I can barely make out the letters O-PM or O-RM The stock is a high wood stock with a late Winchester butt plate. How can I tell whether it is a Winchester stock? I read somewhere that if the fore end has a straight line flat area at the butt plate it's a Winchester stock?? Any help is greatly appreciated. Jay

03-19-2008, 07:32 PM	#7
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 494 Trader Rating: (0)	From your description of the sling bevel markings, I think it is probably a lightly stamped Q-RMC. Rock-Ola Manufacturing Company for Quality Hardware. Use a brass drift on the rear sight. If there are any brass smears, they can be easily removed with gun cleaning solvent. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

03-20-2008, 10:40 AM	#9
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 661 Trader Rating: (0)	The stake marks aren't misaligned. They are staggered abit to ensure a good grip. One for the dovetail into the sight base and the other for the sight base into the dovetail. You may find some with the double stakes and some with only single stakes. I guess it was the armorer's discretion. Brass is the best...plastic/nylon will absorb the energy of the impact and do little to move the sights. Just tap, tap, tap but don't let frustration take hold of you and make you slam dunk the sight...patience is bliss...LOL Last edited by oldjarhead; 03-20-2008 at 10:44 AM.

03-22-2008, 11:57 PM	#11
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 494 Trader Rating: (0)	And try working the rear sight from side to side also. Sometimes that is what it takes to break the staking free of the sight. And don't be TOO gentle with the tapping. Sometimes it takes some pretty good raps. Just be careful not to hit at an upward angle or you could break off the rear dovetail. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

03-25-2008, 01:44 PM	#12
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,017 Trader Rating: (0)	I think JimB is right on as far as the stock being manufactured by Rock-Ola for Quality Hardware. That mark is Q-RMC in the sling slot. The escutcheons the crossed cannons tell you what company built the actual rifle. If you can get a pic of them I can tell you if that is the correct stock or if it was slapped together later. Last edited by Capt'n Mil Coll; 03-25-2008 at 11:03 PM.

03-18-2008, 04:10 PM	#2
ggordon Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 69 Trader Rating: (0)	Winchester stamped WRA (Winchester Repeating Arms) on the side of the butt stock on their M1 carbines. Of course, this could have worn away with handling. Good luck.

03-18-2008, 04:19 PM	#3
Jettty Jay Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks for the info, I cannot see the WRA anywhere. The side is smooth and appears to be original. The crossed cannons are there but not deeply stamped. Jay

03-18-2008, 08:51 PM	#4
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 355 Trader Rating: (0)	Drifting the sight to better center it has to be your judgement call. If it has come loose and the staking is light, it will take no effort to move it so the sights would be more centered when adjusted. Then glue or restake depending on your skill. If on the otherhand, it is heavily staked, you run the risk of loosening it up when you drift it, to the point you will have to restake or glue it, to hold.

03-18-2008, 11:01 PM	#5
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pottersville, MO Posts: 661 Trader Rating: (0)	I have a carbine with the same problem. Tap the sights to the center and restake them, it's no big deal. Use a small center punch and tap the stake "tab" after you get the rear sights set. It shouldn't take much. Tap the tab, check the sights, if still loose tap the tab again. I did this and it definately improved sight accuracy and the ability to minutely adjust windage.

03-19-2008, 06:27 AM	#6
Dookiebutt Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,008 Trader Rating: (0)	I'd leave it alone. The sights were staked in place with a jig that went around the sight base and the dovetailed part of the receiver. That does not mean you couldn't move it. Just remember that many carbines have the windage cranked way over. The Winny stock will be flat in front of the magazine well, at the bottom of the forestock. If you have another stock to compare it to, that will make it easier.

03-20-2008, 10:05 AM	#8
Jettty Jay Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks guys for all the info. I removed the receiver/barrel assembly from the stock before attempting to drift the sight base. I knew that not doing so could damage the stock. I only had a plastic or nylon drift. I put a piece of doubled masking tape on the side of the sight and tapped and tapped and NOTHING! So I will try to get a brass drift and solvent and try again. The sight base favors the right side of the receiver and the stake marks look misalligned. I am sure if I can center the base or at least move it a little to the left the windage will be more towards center on POA.

03-20-2008, 07:32 PM	#10
Jettty Jay Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 55 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks, OJH. That makes sense, to offset the punch marks to lock it tight. I will try to get a brass drift from my gun shop or a hardware store and give it another try. ~JAY~