.280 Rem

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by samuel

It could be that factory loads are low pressure but handloads are about the same as a .270win.Where the .280 is lacking from the 7mm mag. is powder capacity for slow burning powders for heavier bullets.It,s a great cartridge and even better handloaded. sam.

Hi, new member here. I was attracted by googling info on the .280, and ran across this thread. I know it's old, but it was resurrected once, and I wanted to comment being that I'm a long time .280 owner and fan.

I reload, and have done LOTS of research on the .280 Load Data. All data you see in book is loaded to no more than 60K psi, the SAAMI Max Average Safe Pressure for the .280Rem. As mentioned before, this was due in part to it's initial chambering in pumpguns and autoloaders by Remington. It is safe to load the .280Rem to .270Win pressures, or 65K psi. How do you know the pressure? Well, you don't, unless you have access to pressure testing equipement. So, I do the math. Nosler says 57grs of R-19 and a 140 BT or Partition gets 3150fps in a 26" bbl. Subtract 35fps per inch of bbl for my 24" Rem700, and I should be able to get 3080 or very close, and do it at or under 60K psi. I may not do it with 57grs, as lots of powder differ, it may take more, or it may not, but the velocity, not the powder charge tells me where I am on pressure. Now, I feel safe loading up to 65Kpsi, but to keep some cushion, I like to keep it at @ 62K-63K, just to account for standard deviations...which SAAMI has already done, but a little more cushion doesn't hurt. (Actually most producers of data do the same thing, and thus most .280 data is actually at 56K-58Kpsi) I work up my load with that 3150fps in mind taking into account I'm loading to a little higher pressure than the Nosler data. I get 3150fps, and good accuracy, but I do it with a 139 Hornday instead. I got the velocity with the BT's, but not the accuracy I desired. Finally, I consult Quickload, and it confirms that the velocity I'm reaching is predicted to be in the 62K-63K range, and with the 139 Hornady, it's even lower (right at 60K) because of the shorter bearing surface.

In fact experienced loaders who know how to really read, understand, and use load data, find that the .280Rem will do the following at safe pressures from 22-24" bbls.

139/140s - 3075-3150fps
150/154s - 2950-3025fps
160/162s - 2925-3000fps

If you compare that, that's equal to most 7mm Remington Mag factory loads. I also tried Hornady Lite Mag once. It ran an amazing 3200fps in my gun. I had to check the chronograph to be sure it wasn't messing up...it checked out fine. Hornady advertises it at 3110fps.

There are many loaders that refuse to subscribe to loading the .280 to it's potential. They're convinced that the Max load they read on paper is the absolute, carved in stone, max powder charge, regardless of velocity, and despite the fact that the .280 data is woefully conservative due to SAAMI. I've been told by a few that they encountered pressure problems @ the 2900fps mark. What they're saying is, that they can't even duplicate factory load velocity by handloading, and I don't buy that. The major problem I see with most loaders is that they refuse to use the correct burn rate of powder for the application. H4350 (used for instance because it's so popular) is certainly a fine powder suited to a wide range of applications. However, there powders better suited to the .280 for maximum performance. The velocities I listed above generally can't be attained using the likes of R-15, IMR4350, H4350, or the like. The powders best suited for this application, in my experience, are: N-160, and R-19 for the 140s; H4831, N165 and R-22 for the 150s, And R-22 and N165 for 160s. R-22 and N165 are excellent for all the bullet weights actually. I've also read others claim that N550, and N560 are well suited to the .280Rem. The N550 is in the 4350 but it's double base design supposedly allows for more energy. From the Lapua/Vihtavuori site: The N500 series powders are impregnated extruded rifle powders with Nitroglycerol added as extra energy component. If higher loading densities and more energy are needed, N500 series powders are competent alternatives for the N100 series powders.

I have to say that I'm a huge fan of VV powders. They give top velocity, and very low standard deviations.

Sorry to have gotten so wordy, I'm just a huge .280Rem fan, and I love to be a pimp for it anytime I can.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by samuel

It could be that factory loads are low pressure but handloads are about the same as a .270win.Where the .280 is lacking from the 7mm mag. is powder capacity for slow burning powders for heavier bullets.It,s a great cartridge and even better handloaded. sam.

Hi, new member here. I was attracted by googling info on the .280, and ran across this thread. I know it's old, but it was resurrected once, and I wanted to comment being that I'm a long time .280 owner and fan.

I reload, and have done LOTS of research on the .280 Load Data. All data you see in book is loaded to no more than 60K psi, the SAAMI Max Average Safe Pressure for the .280Rem. As mentioned before, this was due in part to it's initial chambering in pumpguns and autoloaders by Remington. It is safe to load the .280Rem to .270Win pressures, or 65K psi. How do you know the pressure? Well, you don't, unless you have access to pressure testing equipement. So, I do the math. Nosler says 57grs of R-19 and a 140 BT or Partition gets 3150fps in a 26" bbl. Subtract 35fps per inch of bbl for my 24" Rem700, and I should be able to get 3080 or very close, and do it at or under 60K psi. I may not do it with 57grs, as lots of powder differ, it may take more, or it may not, but the velocity, not the powder charge tells me where I am on pressure. Now, I feel safe loading up to 65Kpsi, but to keep some cushion, I like to keep it at @ 62K-63K, just to account for standard deviations...which SAAMI has already done, but a little more cushion doesn't hurt. (Actually most producers of data do the same thing, and thus most .280 data is actually at 56K-58Kpsi) I work up my load with that 3150fps in mind taking into account I'm loading to a little higher pressure than the Nosler data. I get 3150fps, and good accuracy, but I do it with a 139 Hornday instead. I got the velocity with the BT's, but not the accuracy I desired. Finally, I consult Quickload, and it confirms that the velocity I'm reaching is predicted to be in the 62K-63K range, and with the 139 Hornady, it's even lower (right at 60K) because of the shorter bearing surface.

In fact experienced loaders who know how to really read, understand, and use load data, find that the .280Rem will do the following at safe pressures from 22-24" bbls.

139/140s - 3075-3150fps
150/154s - 2950-3025fps
160/162s - 2925-3000fps

If you compare that, that's equal to most 7mm Remington Mag factory loads. I also tried Hornady Lite Mag once. It ran an amazing 3200fps in my gun. I had to check the chronograph to be sure it wasn't messing up...it checked out fine. Hornady advertises it at 3110fps.

There are many loaders that refuse to subscribe to loading the .280 to it's potential. They're convinced that the Max load they read on paper is the absolute, carved in stone, max powder charge, regardless of velocity, and despite the fact that the .280 data is woefully conservative due to SAAMI. I've been told by a few that they encountered pressure problems @ the 2900fps mark. What they're saying is, that they can't even duplicate factory load velocity by handloading, and I don't buy that. The major problem I see with most loaders is that they refuse to use the correct burn rate of powder for the application. H4350 (used for instance because it's so popular) is certainly a fine powder suited to a wide range of applications. However, there powders better suited to the .280 for maximum performance. The velocities I listed above generally can't be attained using the likes of R-15, IMR4350, H4350, or the like. The powders best suited for this application, in my experience, are: N-160, and R-19 for the 140s; H4831, N165 and R-22 for the 150s, And R-22 and N165 for 160s. R-22 and N165 are excellent for all the bullet weights actually. I've also read others claim that N550, and N560 are well suited to the .280Rem. The N550 is in the 4350 but it's double base design supposedly allows for more energy. From the Lapua/Vihtavuori site: The N500 series powders are impregnated extruded rifle powders with Nitroglycerol added as extra energy component. If higher loading densities and more energy are needed, N500 series powders are competent alternatives for the N100 series powders.

I have to say that I'm a huge fan of VV powders. They give top velocity, and very low standard deviations.

Sorry to have gotten so wordy, I'm just a huge .280Rem fan, and I love to be a pimp for it anytime I can.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by Magnumsrule

The 280. rem is also loaded to much lower pressure than the 270 win. The 280 was origonally designed to be used in the remington model 740 autoloader rifle so they did not load the cartridge to the full potential as to keep these rifles from being overstressed. This cartridge is also very good because it does not kick much. This cartridge is only slightly less that the 7mm mag but does kick much less.

I hope this isn't a double post, my original post here isn't showing. I had a log in problem I guess.

Anyway, I love the .280Rem. I wont sit here and try to convince you it's light years better than the .270Win. I do think it has a slight edge when loaded to similar pressures. Whether you'd ever notice that edge is doubtful. Magnumsrule is correct, the load data you see from various sources is loaded some 5K psi lighter than the .270Win. It's safe to load to .270 pressures (65Kpsi vs the .280s at 60K psi) When loaded to these pressures, and using the slower burning powders, you can load to the following levels safely in most cases in 22"-24" bbls. Quickload predicts that this can be done at @62K-63Kpsi.

Bullet Wt Velocity
140 3075-3150
150 2950-3025
160 2925-3000

Many people I read on another fourm like the 120 grainers too. I've never used them.

The powders I've used over the years to get such performance are N160, R-19, H4831, R-22, and N165. N160 and R-19 I reserve for 140s. H4831 works best for me with 150s and 154s. R-22 and N165 are great across the board. I'm a big fan of the Vihtavuori powders. Great velocity and low standard deviations. VERY low. I've yet to order any, but N550 and N560 are giving good results for many too that I read about.

Get a .280, load for it, and you'll have a very nice rig that will do a lot of work.

[turner]

Originally Posted by Magnumsrule

How much bigger of a case does the ackley have over the rem?

Although the .280 A.I. is no doubt a very fine round, my reading has shown me that the LM loadings in the .280Rem will match the .280 A.I. This ,to my mind, makes the A.I. round kind of obsolete now that we have the new LMs. I think it's, the standard .280, a very good compromise between the addititonal power available and better bullet selection (already mentiond) than the .270 and also not all the powder and muzzle blast of a 7mmRM for all shooting. I think this, the .280, might be one of the best cartridges that have the LM loadings available. A ballistic twin to both the .270 and also with LM loadings all but equal to the 7mm RM. I know I enjoy shooting mine. It's a handloaders dream with lots of bullets to choose from including Nosler Partiotions from 140 to 175gr!

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by turner

Although the .280 A.I. is no doubt a very fine round, my reading has shown me that the LM loadings in the .280Rem will match the .280 A.I. This ,to my mind, makes the A.I. round kind of obsolete now that we have the new LMs. I think it's a very good compromise between the addititonal power available and better bullet selection (already mentiond) than the .270 and also not all the powder and muzzle blast of a 7mmRM for all shooting. I think this might be one of the best cartridges that have the LM loadings available. A ballistic twin to both the .270 and also with LM loadings all but equal to the 7mm RM. I know I enjoy shooting mine. It's a handloaders dream with lots of bullets to choose from including Nosler Partiotions from 140 to 175gr!

I can't recall the exact % gain in capacity of the AI over the Standard .280. For the purposes of handloading, I've always thought the AI to be too much work for too little gain. Typically a handloader can get 50-75fps gain going from .280 to .280AI. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. But that's just me. In my gun with a 24" bbl, the only LMs I shot were the moly coated 139SSTs. They ran 3200 fps! 90fps faster than advertised. With no pressure signs I checked my chrony too with a known load in another gun, no probs. Hornady seemed a bit surprised at that velocity, and asked me to ship them back to them. I didn't. I pulled one of the bullets to weigh the powder charge. 64 grains! And it didn't fill the case! Some proprietary Vihtavuori blend made for Hornady as I understand. It looked like ball powder but with some flat sides. It packed very dense. So, the .280 can be run very well by competent handloaders, and some factory ammo is "up to speed" as well.

[turner]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

I can't recall the exact % gain in capacity of the AI over the Standard .280. For the purposes of handloading, I've always thought the AI to be too much work for too little gain. Typically a handloader can get 50-75fps gain going from .280 to .280AI. Not worth the trouble in my opinion. But that's just me. In my gun with a 24" bbl, the only LMs I shot were the moly coated 139SSTs. They ran 3200 fps! 90fps faster than advertised. With no pressure signs I checked my chrony too with a known load in another gun, no probs. Hornady seemed a bit surprised at that velocity, and asked me to ship them back to them. I didn't. I pulled one of the bullets to weigh the powder charge. 64 grains! And it didn't fill the case! Some proprietary Vihtavuori blend made for Hornady as I understand. It looked like ball powder but with some flat sides. It packed very dense. So, the .280 can be run very well by competent handloaders, and some factory ammo is "up to speed" as well.

Sorry, after reading my post again...it does sound vague about the fact...everything talked about after simply mentioning the .280 A.I. initially...was about the standard .280. That's what I own...that what I LIKE!

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by turner

Sorry, after reading my post again...it does sound vague about the fact...everything talked about after simply mentioning the .280 A.I. initially...was about the standard .280. That's what I own...that what I LIKE!

It wasn't vague. I was talking about the .280Rem as well. It's what I own and like as well.

[ArkansasHunter]

My next rifle purchase will be one in the 35 caliber cartridges preferibly the .358 and the next one will be a 280 Remington for sure !!!
I may use that $600.00 Gummint check we all is gitt'in to buy my next rifle. LOL
A.H

[turner]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

My next rifle purchase will be one in the 35 caliber cartridges preferibly the .358 and the next one will be a 280 Remington for sure !!!
I may use that $600.00 Gummint check we all is gitt'in to buy my next rifle. LOL
A.H

What type action for the .358 Win, if you go there?

[rdale501]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

My next rifle purchase will be one in the 35 caliber cartridges preferibly the .358 and the next one will be a 280 Remington for sure !!!
I may use that $600.00 Gummint check we all is gitt'in to buy my next rifle. LOL
A.H

Hey Ark. Hunter, you made an excellent choice in that 358 win. I've been looking real hard at that cartridge, and don't see much wrong with it. I read an article that listed it as the hardest hitting round out there for grains of powder burned. I like it. I think Rem. chambered the mod. 600 or 660 for it.. anyway it was a gun based on a short action, my cousin had one in 308 and it was a good gun. I think thats what I'll be looking for. Also check out Browning I think the BLR is chambered in 358 win. If you don't mind a lever action.

[ArkansasHunter]

Hi turner I wish I could buy a Marlin in 358 but they don't make them so I suppose it will be a Browning in BLR but gosh the Browning cost so much and I really don't like all that shinny finish on them though I really like the BLR.
Ruger HawkEyes comes in 358 win but I'm a lever action fan so the Browning would be what I would buy.

The 280 I would buy in a Ruger HawkEye though I haven't looked to see if Ruger chambers them in 280...
When I got the money to buy a new Deer hunting rifle I almost ordered the Hawkeye in 358 but ammo is hard to come by and expensive so at the last minute I swung for a 308. I had forgot about the 280 Oh well...A.H

[samuel]

Ackley Improved works well for smaller capacity cases,often allowing you to go to a slower burn rate powder and getting as many fps or more at lower pressures.But in larger capacity caseings like the .30-06 family and longer belted mags,the gain is usually marginal.Still,there are advantages.But in the limited capacity case the gain is worth it. sam.

[turner]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Hi turner I wish I could buy a Marlin in 358 but they don't make them so I suppose it will be a Browning in BLR but gosh the Browning cost so much and I really don't like all that shinny finish on them though I really like the BLR.
Ruger HawkEyes comes in 358 win but I'm a lever action fan so the Browning would be what I would buy.

The 280 I would buy in a Ruger HawkEye though I haven't looked to see if Ruger chambers them in 280...
When I got the money to buy a new Deer hunting rifle I almost ordered the Hawkeye in 358 but ammo is hard to come by and expensive so at the last minute I swung for a 308. I had forgot about the 280 Oh well...A.H

A.H., I have a BLR in .358 and love it. I'd always wanted a bolt gun in it, but, I immediately got a .338 Fed when it debuted; so now a .358 bolt would be silly. The ammo is kinda high, but if you contact a custom loader such as "Stars and Stripes Ammo" and ask them to simply load it in necked .308 cases, or buy some brass yourself and send it to them(the brass is NOT expensive)...your ammo won't be really bad. I'm sure you'd enjoy the .358. Good Luck.

[ArkansasHunter]

turner I was watching a gun show on the OutDoor Channel a good 3 months ago and this feller was going to test the new Ruger Hawkeye and guess what it was in .358 Win.
He had my attention LOL !!! This guy shot from a rest off his back porch and good golly he was getting 1/2 groups !!! at 100 yards thats pretty dang good ! From a gun he just took out of the box...A.H

[turner]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

turner I was watching a gun show on the OutDoor Channel a good 3 months ago and this feller was going to test the new Ruger Hawkeye and guess what it was in .358 Win.
He had my attention LOL !!! This guy shot from a rest off his back porch and good golly he was getting 1/2 groups !!! at 100 yards thats pretty dang good ! From a gun he just took out of the box...A.H

If I wasn't so darn taken with that new .338 fed, I'd have one of those .358 hawkeyes...but, having both would be kinda like giving a report to the redundancy department...again. Know what I mean Vern??

[samuel]

280REM:You give a lot of personal experience and knowledge,thanks a lot. sam.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by samuel

280REM:You give a lot of personal experience and knowledge,thanks a lot. sam.

Sorry for that excess/double posting. It was my first post, and it wasn't showing up initially for some reason. On other forums, some people say I'm way over the top with my .280 loading. Others who load for and shoot the .280 a lot have had similar success.

Thanks for the kind words.

[mtm1]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

Sorry for that excess/double posting. It was my first post, and it wasn't showing up initially for some reason. On other forums, some people say I'm way over the top with my .280 loading. Others who load for and shoot the .280 a lot have had similar success.

Thanks for the kind words.

I had a 280 Mountain Rifle for several years and did a lot of loading for it. .280Rems loads are right at the top. In my 22" gun I couldn't safely get the top loads listed but could beat the lower end. Slightly more than a .270. Great round. My 24"STW gets 3300 fps. with 160 TSXs.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by mtm1

I had a 280 Mountain Rifle for several years and did a lot of loading for it. .280Rems loads are right at the top. In my 22" gun I couldn't safely get the top loads listed but could beat the lower end. Slightly more than a .270. Great round. My 24"STW gets 3300 fps. with 160 TSXs.

Don't know what you were getting. I had a Mtn. Rifle too, and it got close to this, but lagged just a few fps due to 2" less bbl, but only 50 or so fps. I have good brass life, and Quickload says I'm under 65K psi. I'd feel safe running right at 65Kpsi, as that is what the .270 SAAMI max is. And it should be noted that SAAMI builds in a cushion for standard deviations that occur in pressures. Since all .280 data is published at 60K psi or less (usually actually around 58K psi) I just dont get folks saying they're seeing pressure signs at low velocity.

I approach loading differently from most. Max powder charges in a book are merely a reference. The max velocity is what I look at, and then take in to account the burn rate of the powders they use to get that velocity. If they obtained their velocity in a 24" bbl, then I can reach that safely in my 24" bbl, assuming I choose the right powder. They may have done it with 57grs of R-19, where it might take me 59grs. If my velocity is the same, likely I'm in the same ball park on pressure as well. The different powder charge can be accounted for by varying lots of powder, varying brass capacity, varying chambers, etc. Also, I don't shoot anything faster burning than N160 or R-19, and usually opt for R-22 or N165 or H4831. In the .280Rem, those all nearly fill the case, and if I go one grain over max pressure, I'm going to see pressure signs well before anything goes boom in a bad way. 1 grain of much faster burning powders can increase pressure greatly.

[mtm1]

Yup, no worries. I find a lot of rounds shoot best right at the top. Note the speed on my STW. I launch 250s out of my 338 at 2750. As long as brass life is good its all good.