My scope

thebluesbox · 03-27-2008, 07:41 PM

On my m44 I have a weaver rail sport scope, I removed the rear site. Installing the rail was really a task I had to use a wood working clamp to over come the spring in order to get the screws started. Once that was on I noticed the rail was like really crooked to the right at least a 1/4 inch. I took the rail off to see what the deal was and the rear site mount it self is crooked like that how this thing shoots straight I dont know, not sure if this is common or not????

Anyway I put the rail back on again and installed the rings and scope. I prolly wont get to test it for quite a while and I was just wanting some input here, will the scopes adjustment be able to over come this crooked problem? Its very obvious by looking at it down the barrel you can see its not in line with the barrel at all, it starts at the sight mount right on the rifle.

Geo M44 · 03-27-2008, 09:38 PM

If the mount looks like the picture below:

Remove the spring!!!

That should take care of the offset problem if you haven't dinged the rail base or bent it while clamping. Hopefully you didn't strip the side mounting screws as well.

Also when mounting on an M44 remove the third elevation adjusting screw (it's there for 91/30 mounting) which probaly hits the reciever metal on the M44 barrel. There are small set screws on the side to lock the elevation screws after you level the mount.

Adjust for level using a torpedo level on the back section of the barrel (use an adjustable rifle stand if possible). Once the barrel is level... level the mount with the torpedo level by adusting the front and rear elevation screws (do not overtighten) then snug the setscrews (do not overtighten).

Now you can mount and adjust the scope (I use a laser boresite).

Hope this helps.

thebluesbox · 03-27-2008, 11:08 PM

thats what my rail looks like, I looked at removing the spring but didnt think it could be removed, what holds it in there? I didnt bend the rail or strip the screws, I clamped it carefully in the center at its thickest point. But at any rate, Im not too sure thats gonna fix it because with everything off I can see that the mount for the rear site is actually offset as well, but I'll give this a try for sure.

Geo M44 · 03-27-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebluesbox

thats what my rail looks like, I looked at removing the spring but didnt think it could be removed, what holds it in there?

Gravity... and the glue that binds us all... cosmolene.

It could be that the mount is defective. If so have it replaced.

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 02:02 AM

that would prolly cost more than the gun, i'll use it for an anchor.

Geo M44 · 03-28-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebluesbox

that would prolly cost more than the gun, i'll use it for an anchor.

Yeah, woops, sorry I meant the scope mount, not the sight mount. Anyway the sight spring should come out fairly easily. I hate to keep posting the same pic, but a pic is worth a lot of words...

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 09:56 AM

hey thanks for the pic, thats the exact scope I have. I'll try to remove the spring tonight and see if that helps if not I dont know how I can modify the scope mount to straighten it out. One thing I did notice now that you mension modding the scope mount is, the far end of the mount when placed in the barrel was rubbing real close on the front half and possible if I grind that down it might give me some slack left to right just enough to be closer to straight.... thanks I got some hope now, I'll work on this tonight and let you know what I find.

Ellsworth · 03-28-2008, 11:25 AM

Yeah so, I did the exact same things you did box, and Geo bless his sole, said the exact same thing and posted the exact same picture lol. This is a common problem except I took it a step further, I stripped the darn side screws on the mount... So now I can't even take the mount off...ugh.

This should help you out it's from surplusrifle.com:

Next, remove the rear sight leaf's spring. The spring is basically a curved flat piece of metal that sits below the sight leaf and places upward pressure on the sight leaf.

Taking the punch and hammer and placing the point of the punch in the small indent in the spring and then tapping forward as shown in figure's 4 & 5, the spring will easily come out.

I wish I found that before I modded everything, I thought the only way to remove the spring was to take off the mount...needless to say my hand got tired and blistered trying to push that mount down on the spring.

There has also been talk of a hidden dovetail mount below the rear site mount on all Mosins. I'm not sure if it is true or not, if my mount is screwed up when I shoot this weekend I'll try and find the dovetail. I don't want to remove it and not be able to mount a scope entirely.

That discussion can be found here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/38542-m91-30-scope-mount.html

Hope this helps,

Ellsworth

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 11:32 AM

HOLY COW ellsworth this is exactly what im facing. So the rear pin doesnt have to come out on that sight mount thats on the barrel? You just knock the spring farward? Im getting more hope as time goes on, I didnt mess up the threads as I had enough clampage and clearance that the screws fit thank God, I have something to work with now thanks a million guys.

SwedeSteve · 03-28-2008, 12:05 PM

Great info from all! If you still have a problem, pick up some windage adjustable rings.

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

Great info from all! If you still have a problem, pick up some windage adjustable rings.

Didnt know this was possable, yet another great Idea, if all else fails that will I look into.

Mike82 · 03-28-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellsworth

There has also been talk of a hidden dovetail mount below the rear site mount on all Mosins. I'm not sure if it is true or not, if my mount is screwed up when I shoot this weekend I'll try and find the dovetail. I don't want to remove it and not be able to mount a scope entirely.

That discussion can be found here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/38542-m91-30-scope-mount.html

Hope this helps,

Ellsworth

HEAR YE HEAR YE!!!! dont follow that link, it's evil, and you will get gay porno popups.....jkjk, that was a link to something i was telling Ellsworth, but i had forgotten about it....M44's and M38's do NOT have a dovetail beneath the rear sight base....only one i'm for sure of is the M91/30.

good luck on straightening your scope man.

Geo M44 · 03-28-2008, 04:49 PM

Thanks Mike. I was going to let the guys know that the carbines do not have the hidden "gem" under the sight base.
Again, on my M44 all that held the spring in place (once the sight is removed) is cosmolene and gravity. After cleaning, it should just pop right out.
If you screw up the mount it only costs about $15 to replace it. I bought a spare for my next M44 mounted in the Richards stock (coming this spring). "Natalia" (my photogenic scout-scoped M44) will remain the blonde beauty she is.

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 06:25 PM

well I got home, removed the spring which was a breeze thanks! Installed the mount and scope and its wayy better.... one sadd story is this though LOL I need another rail I think that soft aluminum could only take 2 or 3 times being removed under that spring pressure, now the screws dont tighten :-(

hey what if I drill a hole straight through and reuse the rear sight pin?? The set screws should help hold it steady.

Geo M44 · 03-28-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebluesbox

well I got home, removed the spring which was a breeze thanks! Installed the mount and scope and its wayy better.... one sadd story is this though LOL I need another rail I think that soft aluminum could only take 2 or 3 times being removed under that spring pressure, now the screws dont tighten :-(

hey what if I drill a hole straight through and reuse the rear sight pin?? The set screws should help hold it steady.

Yes that will probably work. I considered that originally as well, but stayed with the screws. Just make sure that the pin fit in the mount is very snug.

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 06:51 PM

I got the idea from seeing this rail that is simular only it has one single bolt through it instead of two.

Amazon.com: Mosin Nagant M44 M91/30 M39 M38 Rifle...
I did it that way and it mounted fine. Although I still can eye ball it along with the barrel and it still looks crooked. I just got my m38 in today as well, I looked down the barrel and its crooked just the same, why are they all like that the rear sight mount alignment to the barrel and front sight is not very true.

I just mounted it and im gonna try to sight the scoop in with the rifle as is and see how it does im tired of playing with it. I hope it does ok, if not I will have to go to plan B

SwedeSteve · 03-28-2008, 08:23 PM

Adjustable rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedeSteve

Adjustable rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

SwedeSteve · 03-28-2008, 09:07 PM

No seriously!

thebluesbox · 03-28-2008, 09:19 PM

do you have a site I can get them online? I would need a 1" ring x 7/8" rail base.
I keep the rifle in locked case with scope off, so the ideal thing would be rings with screws that can be hand tightened and loosened or quick release of some kind.

would this be them? Millett Angle-Loc Weaver Style Smooth 1" Rings AL00910 AL00911 AL00912 AL00722 AL00712 AL00010 AL00012 AL00710 AL00011 AL00711 I dont see quick lock, or finger tighten screws but they are adjustable and cheap.

03-27-2008, 07:41 PM	#1
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	My scope On my m44 I have a weaver rail sport scope, I removed the rear site. Installing the rail was really a task I had to use a wood working clamp to over come the spring in order to get the screws started. Once that was on I noticed the rail was like really crooked to the right at least a 1/4 inch. I took the rail off to see what the deal was and the rear site mount it self is crooked like that how this thing shoots straight I dont know, not sure if this is common or not???? Anyway I put the rail back on again and installed the rings and scope. I prolly wont get to test it for quite a while and I was just wanting some input here, will the scopes adjustment be able to over come this crooked problem? Its very obvious by looking at it down the barrel you can see its not in line with the barrel at all, it starts at the sight mount right on the rifle.

03-27-2008, 11:08 PM	#3
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	thats what my rail looks like, I looked at removing the spring but didnt think it could be removed, what holds it in there? I didnt bend the rail or strip the screws, I clamped it carefully in the center at its thickest point. But at any rate, Im not too sure thats gonna fix it because with everything off I can see that the mount for the rear site is actually offset as well, but I'll give this a try for sure. Last edited by thebluesbox; 03-27-2008 at 11:12 PM.

03-28-2008, 12:05 PM	#10
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,262 Images: 1	Great info from all! If you still have a problem, pick up some windage adjustable rings. __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-28-2008, 06:25 PM	#14
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	well I got home, removed the spring which was a breeze thanks! Installed the mount and scope and its wayy better.... one sadd story is this though LOL I need another rail I think that soft aluminum could only take 2 or 3 times being removed under that spring pressure, now the screws dont tighten :-( hey what if I drill a hole straight through and reuse the rear sight pin?? The set screws should help hold it steady. Last edited by thebluesbox; 03-28-2008 at 06:28 PM.

03-28-2008, 06:51 PM	#16
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	I got the idea from seeing this rail that is simular only it has one single bolt through it instead of two. Amazon.com: Mosin Nagant M44 M91/30 M39 M38 Rifle... I did it that way and it mounted fine. Although I still can eye ball it along with the barrel and it still looks crooked. I just got my m38 in today as well, I looked down the barrel and its crooked just the same, why are they all like that the rear sight mount alignment to the barrel and front sight is not very true. I just mounted it and im gonna try to sight the scoop in with the rifle as is and see how it does im tired of playing with it. I hope it does ok, if not I will have to go to plan B Last edited by thebluesbox; 03-28-2008 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

03-28-2008, 02:02 AM	#5
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	that would prolly cost more than the gun, i'll use it for an anchor.

03-28-2008, 09:56 AM	#7
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	hey thanks for the pic, thats the exact scope I have. I'll try to remove the spring tonight and see if that helps if not I dont know how I can modify the scope mount to straighten it out. One thing I did notice now that you mension modding the scope mount is, the far end of the mount when placed in the barrel was rubbing real close on the front half and possible if I grind that down it might give me some slack left to right just enough to be closer to straight.... thanks I got some hope now, I'll work on this tonight and let you know what I find.

03-28-2008, 11:25 AM	#8
Ellsworth Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cheney, Washington Posts: 108	Yeah so, I did the exact same things you did box, and Geo bless his sole, said the exact same thing and posted the exact same picture lol. This is a common problem except I took it a step further, I stripped the darn side screws on the mount... So now I can't even take the mount off...ugh. This should help you out it's from surplusrifle.com: Next, remove the rear sight leaf's spring. The spring is basically a curved flat piece of metal that sits below the sight leaf and places upward pressure on the sight leaf. Taking the punch and hammer and placing the point of the punch in the small indent in the spring and then tapping forward as shown in figure's 4 & 5, the spring will easily come out. I wish I found that before I modded everything, I thought the only way to remove the spring was to take off the mount...needless to say my hand got tired and blistered trying to push that mount down on the spring. There has also been talk of a hidden dovetail mount below the rear site mount on all Mosins. I'm not sure if it is true or not, if my mount is screwed up when I shoot this weekend I'll try and find the dovetail. I don't want to remove it and not be able to mount a scope entirely. That discussion can be found here: http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/38542-m91-30-scope-mount.html Hope this helps, Ellsworth

03-28-2008, 11:32 AM	#9
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	HOLY COW ellsworth this is exactly what im facing. So the rear pin doesnt have to come out on that sight mount thats on the barrel? You just knock the spring farward? Im getting more hope as time goes on, I didnt mess up the threads as I had enough clampage and clearance that the screws fit thank God, I have something to work with now thanks a million guys.

03-28-2008, 04:49 PM	#13
Geo M44 Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Desert Posts: 2,161	Thanks Mike. I was going to let the guys know that the carbines do not have the hidden "gem" under the sight base. Again, on my M44 all that held the spring in place (once the sight is removed) is cosmolene and gravity. After cleaning, it should just pop right out. If you screw up the mount it only costs about $15 to replace it. I bought a spare for my next M44 mounted in the Richards stock (coming this spring). "Natalia" (my photogenic scout-scoped M44) will remain the blonde beauty she is.

03-28-2008, 08:23 PM	#17
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,262 Images: 1	Adjustable rings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-28-2008, 09:07 PM	#19
SwedeSteve Bullet Maintenance !! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The anchor point, Alaska Posts: 10,262 Images: 1	No seriously! __________________ Thank God we don't get as much Government as we pay for! -Will Rogers

03-28-2008, 09:19 PM	#20
thebluesbox Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 95	do you have a site I can get them online? I would need a 1" ring x 7/8" rail base. I keep the rifle in locked case with scope off, so the ideal thing would be rings with screws that can be hand tightened and loosened or quick release of some kind. would this be them? Millett Angle-Loc Weaver Style Smooth 1" Rings AL00910 AL00911 AL00912 AL00722 AL00712 AL00010 AL00012 AL00710 AL00011 AL00711 I dont see quick lock, or finger tighten screws but they are adjustable and cheap. Last edited by thebluesbox; 03-28-2008 at 10:11 PM.