Several questions for the vets.

[Tater]

Im 17, and still in highschool. I've got an uncle that died in vietnam and a grandfather that died in WWII in the pacific. So far my dad has been the only male member of the family to not serve in the military for generations. I've had several friends who are seniors inlist into the army and navy, and some considering it. I've been pondering on this for quite some time, now and have done a bit of research.

Is basi training as rough as everyone says it is for the army? Are the rumors that grunt unit soldiers are poorly trained and equipped true?

What exactely are the education benefits after my years are spent?

My mom and dad really look down on this decision im considering so I thought I would come to some vets for guidance.

[LarryO1970]

1. Tater... do what is right for you... not just for family military history.

2. As an Air Force guy... I'll say that basic training is (for all branches) pretty much full of physical training and a big mental game. Once you realize that there is always room for improvement even when things are done perfectly, you'll be fine. I am certain you will have an Army guy responding so sit tight.

3. Education benefits are the Montgomery G.I. Bill. Basically... you will get a Bachelor's Degree paid for. It is not automatic... you need to ensure you sigh up for this benefit.

4. My parents (more specifically my mother) would not speak to me for a few months after i joined... and this was in more peaceful times. Parents will be parents... always worried for their children.

5. Joining the military is not just like taking any job... but is is much more than that, a change in lifestyle, location, etc. Be sure you are doing it for the right reasons... and if there are any lingering questions, refer to point 1.

... anything further... keep on asking, there are no dumb questions.

[Recon 173]

Larry is right. Military service is not for everybody. Basic training is a little rough but it is meant to be challenging, not cruel. The idea is for basic training is that it breaks you down to build you into a stronger person. Most Army training companies used to have 200 men in them. Back when I went through basic training we lost about 10 to 15% of our personnel for a variety of reasons, most of them medical. Where you get the really big attrition loss rates in elite training groups. When I went airborne for paratrooper training, we started off with a 400 man training company. Three weeks later less than 200 of us graduated and got our silver jump wings. So we had over a 50% loss rate in my class alone. Ranger training and Special Forces training loses are even higher. Only about 1 out of 4 guys will complete those training courses. When I went through Sniper Training we started off with about 30 people and gradually our number was weeded down to about 12 people who graduated. Most of the people who don't complete the training are, again, out because of medical reasons of some sort. If you can get through basic and advanced training, military duty can be interesting and fun. Make sure when you sign up you get the right job classification that you want from day one. I signed up for infantry expecting to be a rifleman but I was assigned to be an infantry mortarman. I eventually conned my way into a rifle platoon which is where I really wanted to be in the first place and stayed with rifles until I got out. So, the things that you need to be in the military are a physically fit body, a mentally fit mind, the ability to keep your mouth shut so you can listen and the ability to think your way through times of crisis. If you have those 4 things in place when you join up, you'll do good. But one thing, I would not join the military because of some perceived notion about family history. Make sure that it is something that you really want to do for a number of years or for even a whole career.

[Taurus Fan]

1. No
2. No
3. Check with your recruiter, education benefits change.

Something the military doesn't use as a selling point that they should are the lifetime medical benefits you get through the Veteran's Administration. Health insurance costs a fortune, the VA almost nothing.
Just because you're going into the Army doesn't mean you have to be an infantryman or a combat arms unit, look at some of the other choices of training available. Keep your head down.
I went into the Army immediately out of high school, and after the military, college was a breeze. You won't have to be told the same thing twice after the Army gets done with you.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

1. No
2. No
3. Check with your recruiter, education benefits change.

Something the military doesn't use as a selling point that they should are the lifetime medical benefits you get through the Veteran's Administration. Health insurance costs a fortune, the VA almost nothing.
Just because you're going into the Army doesn't mean you have to be an infantryman or a combat arms unit, look at some of the other choices of training available. Keep your head down.
I went into the Army immediately out of high school, and after the military, college was a breeze. You won't have to be told the same thing twice after the Army gets done with you.

.... to add to this, if I may. Chose a career in the military that you can benefit from when you get out, for example... an aircraft jet engine mechanic. Check to see how much they make annually in the civilian sector. How do you use that career choice after the military?

Being young (once) and looking for adventure... you will get your fair share should you do something like a rifleman, tank gunner, etc. I chose the adventure part and always ended up in the wrong place at exactly the wrong time... luckily to still be on this planet. Make your choices wisely.

Keep your head down and your chin up... You get the idea..

[turner]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

1. No
2. No
3. Check with your recruiter, education benefits change.

Something the military doesn't use as a selling point that they should are the lifetime medical benefits you get through the Veteran's Administration. Health insurance costs a fortune, the VA almost nothing.
Just because you're going into the Army doesn't mean you have to be an infantryman or a combat arms unit, look at some of the other choices of training available. Keep your head down.
I went into the Army immediately out of high school, and after the military, college was a breeze. You won't have to be told the same thing twice after the Army gets done with you.

Sage advice there. May I add a few comments. You may not think of the Army at this time as a career. Heck I wasn't sure until after I'd been in for several years that I would stay til retirement. I have retired and the benefits are substantial. The retirement pay which I began receiving at age 41 is pretty darn handy as well...lol. There are MANY jobs available for you to train in. Aircraft mechanics is a wonderful one, for example. Another thing which might interest you is that I spent my entire career, after basic training and Flt School, as a pilot. You DO NOT need a degree to go to the Army's Flight school and become a pilot. It was a wonderful career I wouldn't have traded for anything!! Best of luck to you!

[bnorton325]

I'm gonna throw my $.02 in here.

1. Basic will be mentally and physically challenging. But it isnt brutal. You will hate it at first, but look back on it and be proud that you did it. Basic is a little "softer"than it used to be, but the intensity of it will be directly reflected in the MOS (military ocupational specialty) that you choose. Any combat arms mos will be a little tougher than an admin or soft skill mos.

2. Infantry units in the Army are not under trained or under equiped. I am an airborne infantry platoon sergeant in the 82nd Airborne at FT Bragg. I have deployed in support of the GWOT 5 times now. The men are always trained and equiped. We dont carry "video game" weapons...but I have yet to run into anything in Iraq or Afghanistan that couldnt be dealt with by an M4, SAW, M203, or M240. And as an Infantry soldier you will learn to adapt anything you have to use to your advantage.

3. As far as college goes there are a couple different options now. You will have your GI bill. You will pay into your GI bill for the 1st year of your enlistment then you will get your benefits. GI benefits have increased alot over the last few years. I'm not sure what the actuall numbers are now, but I think they are up in the $40000 range now. You will also get $4500 a year while on active service as tuition assistance. You can use this for night classes or online classes. You can also enroll in eArmyU. It is a distance learning program that has quiet a few colleges in it. You take classes online working towards your degree.

And now the most important thing...only join if t is something you really want to do. The Army (or military for that matter) isnt a job...its a lifestyle. You will lead a different life than a civilian. You will have different responsibilities and be looked at differently. People will expect more out of you and give you more respect in general for what you do. The military int for everyone. That is what makes us a little special. You dont have to be a huge ripped up monster to be in the Infantry. The muscle that will carry you to a distinguished career is your heart. Your heart will make the difference. Dont join because of some family legacy or not join because of some family pressure. You are going to have to make the decision based on wat you want to get out of life.

I have the utmost respect for the men on here who have served, past and present. We are a brotherhood linked together by experiences that 99% of America have not and will not have. If you decide to join, the Army (military) is a small world...hope our paths cross at some point.

[Seabeescotty]

Tater, you go for what you think is the right choice. I will tell you that you might get a promise broken, because it comes down to the need of the service. But whatever you do will be for your country, and your comrades, so do your very best! Well wishes for your pursuits. My oldest son decided to stay for the duration, after his last deployment. He's only been in for ten years, and in ten more, he can retire! At thirty seven!!

[Rambo]

Being a veteran of the US Army, a parent and now a grandparent, I understand what your parents are thinking. I'm am not a fan of what this currrent administration has been doing to our military and specifically our National Guard units. It's now not whether you will see combat but when. So I understand your parents and I feel the same when it comes to my sons and daughter and even my 8 grandchildren. I would hope they stay in school, maybe college and find employment elsewhere.
Thirty years ago I steered alot of young men from the inner-city into the military and it worked for them. I honestly don't think the military is the place to be today. You will find differing opinions for sure. But I see things differently as a parent.

[jerry]

Whether active duty, retired, National Guard, or Reserve

A Veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank
check made payable to 'The United States of America", for an amount of up to
and including my life.

[Seven©]

I've never regretted the time I spent in the military. I grew up. I made lifelong friends. And got an education out of it. Sixteen years later, I have the same haircut. The same discipline.

That said, I'm with Rambo on this one.

Originally Posted by Rambo

I'm am not a fan of what this currrent administration has been doing to our military and specifically our National Guard units.

I honestly don't think the military is the place to be today. You will find differing opinions for sure. But I see things differently as a parent.

The older I get, the more I realize I served an "administration's agenda" and not the Country. I'm not as proud as I once was.

[bnorton325]

Alot of guys join for a vast array of reasons...some are those super patriots that want nothing more than o serve their country...others its some family tradition...some do it to avoid prison or getting killed running with the crowd they were running with...and some do it for no reson at all...kinda like me...i had a great job...had been out of school for 5 years...was just kinda bored. I have never once claimed to be super patriotic...i love the country and i love my job...but its not the reason i fight...ifight for the men to my left and right. There is nothing in Iraq that is a threat to the US...Ive spent enough time there to realize that we arent fighting there to keep people in TX, MS, OR or any other state safe. Every administration will have its agenda...and guys like us will be the ones that have the dirty hands and nightmares from executing that agenda. I dont wnt to say anything bad about the Army or military in general...its been fun for me...but if you are coming in with some deluzion of a super powered military taking the good fight to the bad guys...you might be let down.

you might want to disregard this entire statement...im still a little disgruntled about PT this am!!!

[Taurus Fan]

Originally Posted by Seven©

The older I get, the more I realize I served an "administration's agenda" and not the Country. I'm not as proud as I once was.

When you sign up for the military, you lose the luxury of wringing your hands over whether it's strategic use of force is right or wrong. Anyone who can't accept that should stay at home.

[soonerborn]

Well I guess I can chime in with my .02 and 10 yrs in.

If you do it, it had better be something you want to do. You need a plan, and not just go in blind and go wherever the military needs bodies.

Dont think about joining just a specific branch so soon either. They all have things to offer and each have specialized fields that will help land you a terrific job down the road.

I do not know your specific situation but your choices of what jobs you can do are directly related to how high you score on your ASVAB. You can study up for them and you can take them multiple times so if you really want a particular job but your first test score is a little low, dont let the recruiter strong arm you into accepting something else. Just go back at the next available time and retake the test.

Trust the recruiter about as much as you would a used car salesman. If he/she says anything that is swaying your mind then double check that info with people here and elsewhere.

Do not worry about basic training, its short. Really its more mental than physical, just keep your head screwed on straight and you will be fine. All the yelling and screaming is just to wake up the momma's boys and weed out the non hackers.

If I was in your shoes then I would think about what I wanted to do in the long run and look at what each branch can offer and work towards that. For instance if I wanted to do something in Aviation then the AF is a no brainer. On the other side though if you wanted to be an electronics tech and work towards an electronics engineering degree then all 4 branches offer solid jobs that will fit the bill so then it just becomes a choice of whether you want to pound sand or swab decks.

There are many many jobs in each branch that you probably have no idea about, so research it. I went in the Nav and became a nuclear electrician, the training practically gave me an associates degree in nuclear and electrical engineering. Not much was needed to turn them into BAs. I had good offers to work for civilian nuclear power plants after I got out. My brother is working some type of intelligence analyst MOS for the Army, he chose it specifically because of the great jobs being offered for ex military with high security clearances working in intelligence. I am not presenting these as viable options for you, just showing what there is out there if you go looking for it. Each branch also has specialized units that seem to me like a blast to work in. Example, the navy has SeaBees, they are construction crews and I see them doing some very cool stuff, building schools in some backwater third world country and other stuff like that. Here is what they did after Katrina "From Alabama to New Orleans, the Seabees have cleared more than 200 miles of roads, removed 3,500 tons of debris, delivered 170,000 gallons of water and fuel, and repaired more than 90 schools. They’ve worked to restore power, water and sewage to local communities. They also deliver food to more than 600 families a day." I like stuff like that and I can only imagine how it must feel to be part of something like that. I am sure the other guys here can add some info about units in other branches.

How much college help you get again depends on what job you choose. Some will give you 50% or more credits you need to get your degree. Some will barely give you any. Either way, you can take courses at local colleges with tuition assistance and they should have free CLEP exams available as well as full courses taught on the base. I know where I was stationed in CT, Oklahoma University was offering courses. You should be able to get a majority of your college work done in 1 enlistment, then use the GI Bill to finish out after you get out.

If you join there will be good things and bad things, just like anything else. For me the good things outweighed the bad and I would do it again in a heartbeat. The lifelong friend I have made and the places I have been more than make up for all the crap the military dished out.

I will also give a few cons here of joining.

Its hard to have a family in the military. It puts enormous strain on a marriage and its hard to watch a guy/gal miss so much of their kids growing up. I would strongly recommend holding off on the whole family idea until you are towards the end of your enlistment.

You will have to do alot of crap that makes no sense and seems a terrible waste of time, but thats the military way.

You will see dirt bags who do nothing but brown nose get the same pay and more recognition than you.

At times the food and living conditions will be terrible. Not always but there are times.

You will at some point have a terrible leader, who will make everyone under him miserable, and it will seem like he is never gonna leave.

You will get punished for the mistakes of others but everyone else will be there suffering with you.

I dont care what anybody says about it, you will lose some rights that you are accustomed to as a civilian.

Really though it all boils down to what you want to do, plenty of people go through the military, and you probably know several. Some like it, some dont. With a little bit of game planning you can make sure your one of the former.

As far as your mom and dad are concerned, its your life now. Just remember though that they will support you no matter what you do. It may take a few months for them to warm up to the idea but if you think through what you want to do and present it to them as a whole plan then I bet they will come around faster.

[Taurus Fan]

[quote=soonerborn;472310]Well I guess I can chime in with my .02 and 10 yrs in.

"You will see dirt bags who do nothing but brown nose get the same pay and more recognition than you.

You will at some point have a terrible leader, who will make everyone under him miserable, and it will seem like he is never gonna leave.
[quote]

It's been my experience that those types are much more commonplace in civilian life than in the military.

[soonerborn]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

It's been my experience that those types are much more commonplace in civilian life than in the military.

I dont know. The later yes maybe, but not the former, at least not for me. Regardless, in the civilian world you dont have to put up with it.

[Taurus Fan]

Originally Posted by soonerborn

I dont know. The later yes maybe, but not the former, at least not for me. Regardless, in the civilian world you dont have to put up with it.

You have to put up with whatever's thrown at you if you want to eat and pay rent. Quitting because because you have a jerk for a boss generally isn't an option. The fact is in the military I saw a much higher caliber of people in management/leadership positions than anything I've seen in civilian life, and brown nosing is frowned on, while in the business world, people who suck-up to get ahead are commonplace.

[DANA]

I served for 33 yrs. Pvt to Lt/Col at retirement and would do it all over again. But then that was me.

DANA

[turner]

Originally Posted by DANA

I served for 33 yrs. Pvt to Lt/Col at retirement and would do it all over again. But then that was me.

DANA

Thanks for your service, and sacrifice sir. Ed Turner, CW4 USA RET.

[soonerborn]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

The fact is in the military I saw a much higher caliber of people in management/leadership positions than anything I've seen in civilian life, and brown nosing is frowned on, while in the business world, people who suck-up to get ahead are commonplace.

Yes of course. No comparison. I too saw some of the best leaders anywhere but what I am saying is that is just what most people expect. Unfortunately bad leaders are still found in the military and it creates a much worse situation than having a bad leader in a civilian job. There are many things a bad military leader can do to make your job miserable that a civilian could never get away with.