very old and too short

JSosbe · 04-09-2008, 11:37 AM

What can be done about a shotgun with a less than legal length barrel that was cut off more than 100 years ago? Is there a grandfather clause or a special license so that such a piece of history wouldn't have to be junked?

rondog · 04-09-2008, 11:41 AM

I'm no expert, but I'm gonna say no, it's illegal, period. I'm not even sure that shotguns that were manufactured with short barrels are legal. Maybe if you could find another barrel, you could save the whole gun. What is it?

JSosbe · 04-09-2008, 11:48 AM

Good question, my Grandpa's got a break open 12 that measures right at 18'' by my measure, but the way some BATF agent might measure it could be short. It's been hanging on his wall for 60 yrs and the only writing on it is apatent date in 1898. I will eventually inherit it from the old man, but if it's too short, I don't want that kind of trouble

Mooseman684 · 04-09-2008, 12:00 PM

Is it Damascus ? (For Black Powder )...

ArkansasHunter · 04-09-2008, 12:06 PM

Weld a couple of Poly chokes to it !

JSosbe · 04-09-2008, 12:22 PM

No, not black powder. Moose

Cyrano · 04-09-2008, 12:30 PM

Swede, would you, Moose or Scotty please check me on this?

I believe the BATFE measures from the front of the chamber to the muzzle. The inspector puts a rod down the barrel or something like that, marks where it reaches the muzzle, and that's the measure they use. I know in NY the barrel length has to be 18 inches from chamber to muzzle, but from what I understand the police will accept a permanently mounted thing like a choke or a muzzle brake as part of that. And NY generally mimicks the federal rules pretty closely.

I'll have to get out my books and see what I can dig up on this.

dogman2 · 04-09-2008, 12:57 PM

Has to be from breech face to muzzle.

sell33 · 04-09-2008, 01:03 PM

I was wondering this when the JUDGE first came out. It is basically a shotgun in a revolver, so how is it legal????

toolman · 04-09-2008, 01:40 PM

I may be wrong, but I believe it can be registered as a AOW\short-barrelled weapon by the BATF for a fee. Check with them though:
ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Cyrano · 04-09-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sell33

I was wondering this when the JUDGE first came out. It is basically a shotgun in a revolver, so how is it legal????

No, what the Judge is, is a pistol that also can accept shotgun shells. But primarily it is a pistol chambered in .45 Colt (aka .45 Long Colt, which is how I was taught to differentiate between that and .45 ACP). The fact that, like a .357 Magnum that can also accept .38 Special cartridges, it is for practical purposes two pistols in one, is officially just a bonus. The BATFE folks regard it as a pistol, not a sawed-off shotgun.

rugernut · 04-09-2008, 03:30 PM

the judge has a rifled barrel that makes all the deferance
if it was a smooth bore then it would be a short shotgun

Mooseman684 · 04-09-2008, 10:23 PM

If it measures 18 inches or 18.1 inches from the closed breech face, It should be OK...Just don't go drawing attention to yourself at a shooting range or something like that and you will never get Measured by anybody !
You could have an extension welded on, but Only if it is Less than 18 inches...Oh, and it can be registered if it is shorter than 18 Inches...200 dollar tax stamp.
Rich

JSosbe · 04-11-2008, 03:29 PM

Thanks for the info, maybe the tax stamp would be the way to go, I don't want to change this gun when it becomes mine, and I think it may have been made with this short of a barrel and not sawed off.

04-09-2008, 11:37 AM	#1
JSosbe Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: University of Kentucky Posts: 83	very old and too short What can be done about a shotgun with a less than legal length barrel that was cut off more than 100 years ago? Is there a grandfather clause or a special license so that such a piece of history wouldn't have to be junked?

04-09-2008, 11:41 AM	#2
rondog Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 1,553	I'm no expert, but I'm gonna say no, it's illegal, period. I'm not even sure that shotguns that were manufactured with short barrels are legal. Maybe if you could find another barrel, you could save the whole gun. What is it? __________________ What she doesn't know about, doesn't piss her off.....

04-09-2008, 12:00 PM	#4
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,401 Images: 2	Is it Damascus ? (For Black Powder )... __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-09-2008, 01:40 PM	#10
toolman Mr. Fixit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: abilene,tx Posts: 5,806 Blog Entries: 24	I may be wrong, but I believe it can be registered as a AOW\short-barrelled weapon by the BATF for a fee. Check with them though: ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives __________________ cosmoline is an aphrodisiac!

04-09-2008, 10:23 PM	#13
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 10,401 Images: 2	If it measures 18 inches or 18.1 inches from the closed breech face, It should be OK...Just don't go drawing attention to yourself at a shooting range or something like that and you will never get Measured by anybody ! You could have an extension welded on, but Only if it is Less than 18 inches...Oh, and it can be registered if it is shorter than 18 Inches...200 dollar tax stamp. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-09-2008, 11:48 AM	#3
JSosbe Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: University of Kentucky Posts: 83	Good question, my Grandpa's got a break open 12 that measures right at 18'' by my measure, but the way some BATF agent might measure it could be short. It's been hanging on his wall for 60 yrs and the only writing on it is apatent date in 1898. I will eventually inherit it from the old man, but if it's too short, I don't want that kind of trouble

04-09-2008, 12:06 PM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,912	Weld a couple of Poly chokes to it !

04-09-2008, 12:22 PM	#6
JSosbe Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: University of Kentucky Posts: 83	No, not black powder. Moose

04-09-2008, 12:30 PM	#7
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 2,860	Swede, would you, Moose or Scotty please check me on this? I believe the BATFE measures from the front of the chamber to the muzzle. The inspector puts a rod down the barrel or something like that, marks where it reaches the muzzle, and that's the measure they use. I know in NY the barrel length has to be 18 inches from chamber to muzzle, but from what I understand the police will accept a permanently mounted thing like a choke or a muzzle brake as part of that. And NY generally mimicks the federal rules pretty closely. I'll have to get out my books and see what I can dig up on this.

04-09-2008, 12:57 PM	#8
dogman2 Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 133	Has to be from breech face to muzzle.

04-09-2008, 01:03 PM	#9
sell33 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,320	I was wondering this when the JUDGE first came out. It is basically a shotgun in a revolver, so how is it legal????

04-09-2008, 03:30 PM	#12
rugernut Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: TEXAS Posts: 62	the judge has a rifled barrel that makes all the deferance if it was a smooth bore then it would be a short shotgun

04-11-2008, 03:29 PM	#14
JSosbe Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: University of Kentucky Posts: 83	Thanks for the info, maybe the tax stamp would be the way to go, I don't want to change this gun when it becomes mine, and I think it may have been made with this short of a barrel and not sawed off.