What was the original finish on USGI M1 Carbines?

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-09-2008, 10:33 AM

I have been looking at all kinds of questions about M1 Carbines and I see a lot that have shiney finishes. My question is what was the original finish on USGI M1 Carbines? And what was the wood used in stocks?

jimb2 · 04-09-2008, 02:38 PM

There is no simple answer, Finish depended on who and when. As far as the wood goes, mostly walnut but also heartwood walnut (much lighter color), Cherry and Birch.

M14man · 04-09-2008, 05:22 PM

All GI finishes were Parkerized. That was supposed to be a joke..
I believe most wood was given a coat of BLO. How they were treated later by the soldier, was more varied.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-10-2008, 01:27 PM

Ok was wondering because after looking at my Carbines the Vet bring back has hardly any finish the rest have varying degrees of finish including varnish or poly shiney finish. I thought they should have BLO. It seems the arsenal rebuilds have varnish.

Orlando · 04-11-2008, 02:32 PM

Stocks that have a original finsih can be shiney from years of grime, oil. I have cleaned many stocks that looked like this with a degreaser and the shiney finish and all the crud, dirt, BLO, oil comes off. It if was a varnish a degreaser wouldn't touch it

jimb2 · 04-12-2008, 10:47 AM

Obviously you guys are NOT students of the carbine. GI metal finish depended on the time made and the manufacturer. For example, early Winchesters used the blue Dulite finish. IBM had a very light gray park on the barrels, many of the presentations models had fine blued finishes. Some parts were blued while others were left in the white. As far as wood finishes go, BLO was not normally used! It was either raw linseed or whenever available, Tung oil. I recommend you guys do some more studying before you start giving out misinformation.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-12-2008, 11:47 AM

Does that hold true on the arsenal rebuilds as well or did they do something different on them?

Orlando · 04-12-2008, 02:35 PM

Get up on the wrong side of the bed Jimb?. I never mentioned one word of metal finish and I dont see anywhere in his post where he asked about it. I belive his question was about the finish on the wood and what type of wood was used. You are right , linseed oil not boiled linseed oil. From now on I'll let you the "Grand Puba" of carbines answer all questions here

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-13-2008, 02:07 AM

OK didnt know what to say. Thanks to both of you for your help. Thats all I got to say about that.

jimb2 · 04-13-2008, 10:20 PM

My response was primarily for M14man and Capt. Mil, not you Orlando. You do have a fair knowledge of carbines. I know that. And the gloss finish is the result of many applications of Tung oil. Eventually it doesn't soak in anymore and develops that gloss finish. Early in the war, they used exclusively Tung oil. But after the Japanese captured the islands that supplied the Tung oil, they switched to raw linseed with driers. The original stock finishes were actually a soft, almost satin finish. As more oil was added and it dried, sealing the wood, the oils stayed at the surface and developed the sheen.
As far as metal finish goes, when you see a carbine that has the same color finish/parkerizing on all visible parts, you can be sure that it is a repark. Even those that were completely parkerized fresh from the factory had a large variation in color. Different parts were made in different plant or by different subcontractors and were parked in different batches at different times. It would be virtually impossible for the metal parts to all be the same shade.

Paper · 10-26-2008, 07:28 PM

New question to an old post..
My Carbine (walnut) stock and handguard are in the dishwasher as I type this.. I have BLO to refinish, but is there a stain I should use before the BLO??

Is there a correct stain, or any stain at all?

Also, this is a Greek rifle and somewhere along the line, someone put the number 17 with a circle around it in Black Magic Marker. This is on the left side of the stock, and is about 2" around..

I'm hoping the hot water/detergent will remove this in the dishwasher, but if not, I guess since it was part of the rifle long before I touched it at the CMP North store, it'll continue to be part of the rifle, unless someone has a suggestion as how to remove it???

Once removed from the dishwasher and dry, I'll give it a very light sanding and then start on refinishing the rifle..

Again, if anyone can tell me if there should be stain before BLO, it'd be appreciated..

Orlando · 10-26-2008, 07:37 PM

Paper, after stock is clean and completely dry put on a coat of BLO and let dry. If you like the color of the stock continue applyin coats of BLO until you are happy with it.
If the color is not dark enough after the first coat apply a coat of alcohol based stain directly over the BLO. After you get the color to where you want it apply more coats of BLO.
Thats the great thing about alcohol stains, they can be applied over BLO and they soak into the wood. Something a oil based stain cant do
Good luck

Paper · 10-26-2008, 07:37 PM

This New Page 1 from the CMP mentions stain...

So the question still stands.. Stain or no stain before BLO?

Paper · 10-26-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

Paper, after stock is clean and completely dry put on a coat of BLO and let dry. If you like the color of the stock continue applyin coats of BLO until you are happy with it.
If the color is not dark enough apply a coat of alcohol based stain directly over the BLO. After you get the color to where you want it apply more coats of BLO.
Thats the great thing about alcohol stains, they can be applied over BLO and they soak into the wood. Something a oil based stain cant do
Good luck

Perfect!!!
Thanks for that info Orlando!! There were a couple very faint stamps in the original stock, but this stock wasn't as nice as the other 2 rifles I have, so it became the guinnea pig..

It'll be a while refinishing, but I'll post what I end up with.. Again, thank you!!

Orlando · 10-26-2008, 07:44 PM

BLO changes the color of the wood so how could you possibly stain it before then add Blo and guess what color its going to turn out?
I have added nothing but BLO to some stocks and they came out beautiful, others really needed some stain .
So like I said in my post above I add a coat of BLO first, then if I dont like the color I give it a coat of alcohol stain

Paper · 10-26-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orlando

BLO changes the color of the wood so how could you possibly stain it before then add Blo and guess what color its going to turn out?

Part of the problem is that all the other stocks (non-military) that I've done, I've refinished with stain and Tru-Oil... This will be the first time using BLO and mineral spirits, so I'm stepping into this one lightly..

Also, past refinishing tests were on cheap rifles, so I didn't have much to lose.. They've all turned out very well, but I'm a little gunshy with this, being far from a $50 gun and having never used BLO..

Again, thanks for the info!! I've got a can of "gunstock" color alcohol stain on the shelf if needed, but I'll see what the BLO does, first!

Orlando · 10-26-2008, 07:55 PM

I never mixed the BLO with mineral spirits. I just put on very thin coats let sit overnight then add more. One every thin coat at a time. You cant mess anything up, if something would happen (cant imagine what) the BLO is easy to remove and start over

Paper · 10-26-2008, 08:01 PM

Now for the $1000000 question..

How many coats?

I'm guessing 10ish?

Paper · 10-26-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paper

Also, this is a Greek rifle and somewhere along the line, someone put the number 17 with a circle around it in Black Magic Marker. This is on the left side of the stock, and is about 2" around..
I'm hoping the hot water/detergent will remove this in the dishwasher, but if not, I guess since it was part of the rifle long before I touched it at the CMP North store, it'll continue to be part of the rifle, unless someone has a suggestion as how to remove it???.

Latest update after the dishwasher treatment.

The 17 and circle are gone, and I found a Crossed Cannon stamp that I didn't know the stock had. Excellent grain on the wood, too!!!

I'll now let it sit in front of a fan for a day to dry, and then start with a coat of BLO..

Orlando · 10-26-2008, 08:49 PM

Sounds like a nice stock, post some pics after you get done. A day sitting in front of a fan may not be long enough. Wood setting through a diswasher cycle

will soak up alot of water. Sealing it with BLO before completely dry may cause problems. I would let it set for a few days in the sun or in front of a fan around a source of heat etc. Good luck

04-09-2008, 10:33 AM	#1
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,483 Images: 34	What was the original finish on USGI M1 Carbines? I have been looking at all kinds of questions about M1 Carbines and I see a lot that have shiney finishes. My question is what was the original finish on USGI M1 Carbines? And what was the wood used in stocks?

04-09-2008, 02:38 PM	#2
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 529	There is no simple answer, Finish depended on who and when. As far as the wood goes, mostly walnut but also heartwood walnut (much lighter color), Cherry and Birch. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

04-09-2008, 05:22 PM	#3
M14man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FLA Posts: 539 Images: 10	All GI finishes were Parkerized. That was supposed to be a joke.. I believe most wood was given a coat of BLO. How they were treated later by the soldier, was more varied. Last edited by M14man; 04-09-2008 at 05:34 PM.

04-12-2008, 10:47 AM	#6
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 529	Obviously you guys are NOT students of the carbine. GI metal finish depended on the time made and the manufacturer. For example, early Winchesters used the blue Dulite finish. IBM had a very light gray park on the barrels, many of the presentations models had fine blued finishes. Some parts were blued while others were left in the white. As far as wood finishes go, BLO was not normally used! It was either raw linseed or whenever available, Tung oil. I recommend you guys do some more studying before you start giving out misinformation. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

04-12-2008, 11:47 AM	#7
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,483 Images: 34	Does that hold true on the arsenal rebuilds as well or did they do something different on them? __________________ Let's light this fuse and see what happens!

04-10-2008, 01:27 PM	#4
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,483 Images: 34	Ok was wondering because after looking at my Carbines the Vet bring back has hardly any finish the rest have varying degrees of finish including varnish or poly shiney finish. I thought they should have BLO. It seems the arsenal rebuilds have varnish.

04-11-2008, 02:32 PM	#5
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	Stocks that have a original finsih can be shiney from years of grime, oil. I have cleaned many stocks that looked like this with a degreaser and the shiney finish and all the crud, dirt, BLO, oil comes off. It if was a varnish a degreaser wouldn't touch it

04-12-2008, 02:35 PM	#8
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	Get up on the wrong side of the bed Jimb?. I never mentioned one word of metal finish and I dont see anywhere in his post where he asked about it. I belive his question was about the finish on the wood and what type of wood was used. You are right , linseed oil not boiled linseed oil. From now on I'll let you the "Grand Puba" of carbines answer all questions here Last edited by Orlando; 04-12-2008 at 09:51 PM.

04-13-2008, 02:07 AM	#9
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,483 Images: 34	OK didnt know what to say. Thanks to both of you for your help. Thats all I got to say about that. __________________ Let's light this fuse and see what happens! Last edited by Capt'n Mil Coll; 04-13-2008 at 07:00 PM.

04-13-2008, 10:20 PM	#10
jimb2 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 529	My response was primarily for M14man and Capt. Mil, not you Orlando. You do have a fair knowledge of carbines. I know that. And the gloss finish is the result of many applications of Tung oil. Eventually it doesn't soak in anymore and develops that gloss finish. Early in the war, they used exclusively Tung oil. But after the Japanese captured the islands that supplied the Tung oil, they switched to raw linseed with driers. The original stock finishes were actually a soft, almost satin finish. As more oil was added and it dried, sealing the wood, the oils stayed at the surface and developed the sheen. As far as metal finish goes, when you see a carbine that has the same color finish/parkerizing on all visible parts, you can be sure that it is a repark. Even those that were completely parkerized fresh from the factory had a large variation in color. Different parts were made in different plant or by different subcontractors and were parked in different batches at different times. It would be virtually impossible for the metal parts to all be the same shade. __________________ I am a nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore, I am perfect...

10-26-2008, 07:28 PM	#11
Paper One Buwwit Weft Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: IL/WI Border Posts: 1,046	New question to an old post.. My Carbine (walnut) stock and handguard are in the dishwasher as I type this.. I have BLO to refinish, but is there a stain I should use before the BLO?? Is there a correct stain, or any stain at all? Also, this is a Greek rifle and somewhere along the line, someone put the number 17 with a circle around it in Black Magic Marker. This is on the left side of the stock, and is about 2" around.. I'm hoping the hot water/detergent will remove this in the dishwasher, but if not, I guess since it was part of the rifle long before I touched it at the CMP North store, it'll continue to be part of the rifle, unless someone has a suggestion as how to remove it??? Once removed from the dishwasher and dry, I'll give it a very light sanding and then start on refinishing the rifle.. Again, if anyone can tell me if there should be stain before BLO, it'd be appreciated.. __________________

10-26-2008, 07:37 PM	#12
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	Paper, after stock is clean and completely dry put on a coat of BLO and let dry. If you like the color of the stock continue applyin coats of BLO until you are happy with it. If the color is not dark enough after the first coat apply a coat of alcohol based stain directly over the BLO. After you get the color to where you want it apply more coats of BLO. Thats the great thing about alcohol stains, they can be applied over BLO and they soak into the wood. Something a oil based stain cant do Good luck Last edited by Orlando; 10-26-2008 at 07:45 PM.

10-26-2008, 07:44 PM	#15
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	BLO changes the color of the wood so how could you possibly stain it before then add Blo and guess what color its going to turn out? I have added nothing but BLO to some stocks and they came out beautiful, others really needed some stain . So like I said in my post above I add a coat of BLO first, then if I dont like the color I give it a coat of alcohol stain

10-26-2008, 07:55 PM	#17
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	I never mixed the BLO with mineral spirits. I just put on very thin coats let sit overnight then add more. One every thin coat at a time. You cant mess anything up, if something would happen (cant imagine what) the BLO is easy to remove and start over

10-26-2008, 08:01 PM	#18
Paper One Buwwit Weft Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: IL/WI Border Posts: 1,046	Now for the $1000000 question.. How many coats? I'm guessing 10ish? __________________

10-26-2008, 08:49 PM	#20
Orlando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 642	Sounds like a nice stock, post some pics after you get done. A day sitting in front of a fan may not be long enough. Wood setting through a diswasher cycle will soak up alot of water. Sealing it with BLO before completely dry may cause problems. I would let it set for a few days in the sun or in front of a fan around a source of heat etc. Good luck