Purchasing a Hi-Point Handgun (and considering a lawsuit)

[Parrothead]

I've owned a .22 rifle for many years and have recently purchased an AK-47 and a Steyr M95. All three are fun, but I've recently decided I want a handgun for various reasons.

Aside from informal target shooting, I'd like to get a CCW permit if for no other reason than not having to pay $25 for a background check each time I buy a gun I figure it's also not a bad idea to have a handgun on my hip when out in the middle of nowhere - you never know who or what you'll find out in the desert! Last, but not least, a handgun would serve me well in the home defense role until I buy a shotgun at a later date. Home defense isn't my major concern at this time, but it would be nice to have something that's better than my .22 and not as over penetrating as the 7.62x39 in the AK or the 8.56R from the Steyr

After much research into handguns and much research into funding, I have decided that I want to purchase a brand new Hi-Point handgun in either 9mm or .40 S&W. The vast majority of people who own them say that while they look like they fell out of an ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down and are big and heavy, they are reliable and reasonably accurate. Hi-Point owners also nearly universally praise the lifetime warranty (of the gun) and Hi-Point's willingness to fix anything no matter who's fault it was.

Since I'm not buying a handgun for looks (no gold and diamond studded .45 this time ), I don't care if it's ugly. Since I'm not planning to use it for concealed carry, I don't care if it's big or heavy.

I've also read numerous posts by people who usually haven't owned or fired one who look down on Hi-Points as "junk guns" or "Saturday Night Specials." There seems to be a thought process that if it only costs <$200 it's no good.

All of this just makes me want one more ! I like quirky things and finding stuff out for myself. I figure it goes along with my old Polaroid peel-apart pack film cameras and my twin lens reflex camera and will probably work just as well

I only have one problem - finding one for sale closer than 60 miles away. The Ace Hardware up in Overton (70 miles away) has 9mm and .380s in stock. Emmalee's Guns in Pahrump (60 miles away) has one .40 in stock which may be gone before the weekend is up. I'm leaning towards the .40 if it's still there next weekend as Pahrump is in Nye County and doesn't have the three day "cooling off" period for someone's first pistol. I don't get paid until Tuesday and Emmalee's is only open Friday through Sunday, so I'm hoping it's still there next weekend!

I checked with just about everyone I can think of here in Las Vegas and I can't find anyone that carries Hi-Point or is even WILLING TO ORDER THEM One gun store said that they will not special order Hi-Point because they think they're low quality, but the guy on the phone said that he'd owned one in the past, but it was the store's policy.

I also called a certain pawn shop here in Las Vegas that advertises on its website that special orders are welcome, use their distributor or yours, cost+10% for cash etc. They have all sorts of language on the site about how great the Second Amendment is and how they love guns, too. When I called them I explained about not wanting to spend the gas and time to get to Overton or Pahrump. The guy on the phone initially said no problem, but then after asking about the time frame to get the gun to the store, he'd changed his tune. After asking me why I wanted it (good reviews from owners and magazines, warranty, just for general plinking) and trying to persuade me that a Hi-Point is too heavy and too big, he tried to persuade me to order one via an online auction site and have them do the transfer for $20. I objected because it would add $20 to the price of the gun for the transfer and another $20 to $40 for shipping and that gas to Overton or Pahrump would be cheaper. I asked again about ordering it through them and the guy finally came out and said that they WOULD NOT order one because it's "cheap junk" and "we don't carry Ravens or Jennings, either." I brought up the website that says they do special orders and that there's no restrictions listed, he said, "I guess we'll have to change the website," and indicated that they don't care how much business they lose. I won't name the pawn shop :removed by the author due to a change of opinion and to protect the pawn shop:.



I think it's false advertising and seeing as how I get free legal advice through the employee assistance program at work, I'm looking into legal options. EDIT: No longer looking into legal options - that was a stupid idea.

For those who have stuck around this long, thanks for reading the whole thing . I just had to vent and I figured this was the place to do it about this subject

If anyone knows where I can get a Hi-Point here in Las Vegas or closer than Pahrump or Overton, please let me know. Otherwise it looks like I'll be heading on over to Pahrump next weekend assuming the .40's still there.

EDIT: For those who think I was a bonehead for considering a lawsuit, you're right. I was. As you'll see if you read further in this thread, I've come around in my thinking and feel embarrassed for being such a moron. I just wanted to save everyone who was thinking of replying with those thoughts some time and let y'all know it up front.

[rfc357]

As a certified pistol instructor, I see a lot of handguns in the courses I teach. While the Hi-Points are a cut above the "other" "junk" guns, in that most are reasonably safe to shoot out of the box, their long-term durability is questionable. I have seen a lot of parts breakages in relatively low-round-count guns.

Now I know someone will reply, "I have a Hi-Point and I have put 30,000 rounds through it with no problems." Good on you, but a sample size of one tells you nothing.

I have not (yet) banned Hi-Points from my courses like I have some other brands, but the jury is still out. I recommend you save your money and buy something of higher quality. Ask yourself how much your life is worth.

By the way, you can't force a store to order, stock, or sell anything in particular. I suspect they do not make much on Hi-Points, and have had to return more than a few. I do agree they are doing a poor job of communicating.

When I was selling guns, I stopped ordering a number of brands because of the high percentage that would have to go back to the distributor. I simply told people "I don't carry brand x," and left it at that. If someone had a problem with my position, I would cheerfully recommend another shop.

[Windwalker]

Good luck with the Hi Point. I am still waiting for the .45 Carbine to come out. I want one.

[Mooseman684]

I recommend the same, Save your money and Buy a better more reliable gun, ESPECIALLY if your life depends on it...For CCW. There are plenty of Great deals to be had if you shop around. As A Gunsmith, High points are on the low end of the scale as far a durability and accuracy.
Oh, and You can't Sue because You were not "Injured" and you didn't purchase anything...That's just Silly, and part of what is wrong in our society today.
Rich

[HARDERTR]

Are you SERIOUSLY thinking about a lawsuit?? Nothing like putting "the only pawn shop in Las Vegas that still deals in firearms" out of business.




I own a Hi-point 45, 40 and 40 carbine. I bought the 45 because it was cheap, and the 40 because I liked the fact that I wasn't scared to "scuff up" my 45. I got the carbine because it is a pretty cool gun, and fun to shoot. My 2 HP pistols serve a purpose, and I'm not ashamed to take them out in public, but I sure wouldn't go out of my way to get one as my FIRST handgun.

[Taurus Fan]

Don't ask a lawyer about such a frivolous complaint. You said their ad stated "special orders are welcome". This doesn't obligate them to take any and all orders from companies they don't feel comfortable with for products they don't trust.

If their ad stated "We will order any product you want from anyone", you might have something to complain about. Even then it's hardly grounds for a lawsuit.

[ShotInTheDark]

Originally Posted by Parrothead

I think it's false advertising and seeing as how I get free legal advice through the employee assistance program at work, I'm looking into legal options

---->second that

[cubbieman]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

Don't ask a lawyer about such a frivolous complaint.

+1

the business owner has a right to sell, or not sell whatever he pleases, and you'd be making a huge ass of yourself because you're not willing to spring the $60 or drive 60 miles, you'd spend more time and money on a lawyer than you would on just going somewhere else

[Drizzdog]

If your heart is set on getting a hi-point, thats definatly your decision. I would suggest going along with purchasing the firearm online and doing a ffl transfer. I don't believe its good practice to get lawyers involved because the guy had a sign in his window saying they special order and they wouldn't order a hi-point. There are always other options and quite frankly he can do what he wants with his business. He's jumped through the hoops to get his firearms licence and he can sell/order what he desires. I've done a few ffl transfers over the years and I find them to be pretty simple and straight forward. If you can get the transfer done for around 20 bucks, that isn't too bad, cheapest gun shop here will charge 25. Sure you're paying that 20 bucks more, but if you really want the firearm then ya gotta bite the bullet in this case I think.

[stalebiscuit]

i saw a hi-point in .380 at the gun show for 81 dollars, the c-9 was only 108

damn i wish i was 21

[Parrothead]

First off, I'd like to thank everyone for their responses and that includes the negative replies too I wanted feedback on the whole thing and it's just what I got. I'm even more impressed with this forum/community because of the type of responses I got - well reasoned and not just flames

As for the lawyers, I'm going to forget about that route. That was an emotional response and upon reflection a poor choice. I got and deserved it

I was seriously ticked off to say the least, especially after reading their web page and the way the call went. I don't like being left on hold for 10+ minutes, being dissuaded for another five minutes (it's too heavy, it's too big), being persuaded to go through the whole internet sales site and transfer idea for another five minutes after explaining that I didn't want to go that route due to shipping and transfer fees, being told for the second and third time that they don't carry that gun after explaining that I wanted to order one because they don't carry them, and then being told that they will not order it because it's low quality and then saying that they don't sell Ravens, Jennings, or any other junk guns either. When I reminded them of their website, they just said that they'd have to change it.

I've worked in retail for years, spent over 2 years in car sales, and I currently do second level tech support in telecommunications dealing with customers who pay thousands of dollars per month. I know good and bad customer service and I can be a bit picky. Forgetting about the 10 minute hold time, I wish someone would have been courteous. Something along the lines of "I'm sorry, but we choose not to sell those," or "I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding with our web page, but there are some things we won't special order, but if you change your mind on the transfer we'd be happy to help," would have gone a long way. I also learned that in general it's bad form to bash a product and a much better idea to offer either an alternate product or an alternate place to purchase that product. I've had to tell people no in the past and I know it can be done in a much better way.

In the end, I think it was just frustration on both ends of the phone line that could and should have gone better.

Wow - I feel much better now :mrgreen: !

So yeah, the lawyers are out, but I'd still like to thank ShotInTheDark for the vote of confidence .

As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to try to go down there in the next week (they're closed on Sundays) and try to make amends. Ya know, sometimes I just feel like an idiot I hope I didn't cause any bad blood around here and that if I did, that my sincere apology would be accepted.

Now that we're done with the lawyers, I figure guns and money still have to be dealt with (you've gotta know the song)

rfc357 - Thank you for your well-informed and reasoned reply! I hope my response above covered the lawyers, but I would add that even with having calmed down, you've helped me "see the light" as it were . Your response to someone who wanted something you didn't want to sell is what I would have told someone myself and I agree it's your prerogative to choose what people can and can't use in your classes. I am not planning on using a Hi-Point for concealed carry, but I would like to get the permit for the reasons that I would like to have that option if I chose to use it and I don't want to have to worry about paying the $25 for a background check each time I buy a gun or have to worry about the 6:30 PM cutoff time for background checks if I decided to buy a rifle at Bass Pro Shops or Big 5 at 8:00 or 9:00 at night.

Dad was California Highway Patrol for 31 years before retiring and moving out of California. His recommendation for a concealed carry or any routine carry firearm is either a Glock or a Smith and Wesson. If and when (more likely when) I decide to save up a while and get a really nice handgun, I'm planning on either a Glock 27 or a Smith and Wesson 4006 like Dad carried on duty

Windwalker - Thanks for the support and best of luck with the 4595 !

Mooseman684 - I've been a lurker on this board for quite a while now and I've read your posts (always respectful and reasoned) and places where you've explained your credentials (a thread about carrying a 1911 cocked and locked and a side discussion on half-cock comes to mind). I value and respect your opinions and I thank you for your advice.

My main reason for getting a pistol is really just to go out and bust some cans and other fun targets in the desert (and yes, I always pick up my trash and more when I'm done). I'm not planning on using this as a CCW as I've said before. I've read both good and bad about Hi-Points, but I want to find out for myself without any unnecessary expense as in gas, shipping, etc. If I like it, I'll have a new gun I like. If I don't like it, I figure I'll send it back to Hi-Point with my complaints and see what they have to say and what they can do. If I'm still not satisfied, I figure I can sell it to a dealer or just keep it and call it a loss (hey, it's Vegas and gambling's legal here, right ) and report my experiences for the benefit of others.

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Oh, and You can't Sue because You were not "Injured" and you didn't purchase anything...That's just Silly, and part of what is wrong in our society today.
Rich

Yep, you're right and I'll admit it to everyone with my apologies for being a doofus!

HARDERTR - You're right about the lawsuit and I'll say it again, I was wrong. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

About the Hi-Points, I know you wouldn't go out of your way to get one as your first handgun, but I'm glad to hear you have a couple and that they've worked for you. I just want to have fun with mine

Taurus Fan - I'll say it again, you are right and I was wrong. Thank you for taking the time to reply!

ShotInTheDark - As before, thanks for the support even though I'm not going to follow that path Thanks for the reply!

cubbieman - Thanks for taking your time on a Saturday to reply to my post! After much thought and re-reading everyone's responses and even more thought and introspection, I would have to agree that I was making a complete ass out of myself and I am feeling more and more embarrassed by the minute

Drizzdog - Thanks for the reply and yep, you're right, too.

I'd pretty much made up my mind to either go out to Pahrump for the .40 S&W if it's still there or go up to Pahrump for the 9mm if the .40's gone by then before reading everyone's replies. I've made up my mind to buy a Hi-Point if for no other reason than to see what's up for myself and I'll be sure to post the results on this board either way

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to read this and for your replies!

[Mooseman684]

Just watch out for aliens and Chupacabras around Art Bells Place (in Pahrump)...LOL
Glad you Understand we are looking out for you...
Rich

[Parrothead]

Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

i saw a hi-point in .380 at the gun show for 81 dollars, the c-9 was only 108

damn i wish i was 21

Sorry I missed your reply - I was writing a rather long reply

Those prices seem about right from what I know. The Ace Hardware up in Overton has the .380 in stock for $99 and the C-9 for $120 which sounds reasonable for retail vs. gun show pricing.

I'll be sure to let you know what my experiences are with a Hi-Point once I finally get it.

Have fun and enjoy being under 21 while you can !

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Just watch out for aliens and Chupacabras around Art Bells Place (in Pahrump)...LOL
Glad you Understand we are looking out for you...
Rich

Thanks for the quick reply so close to midnight there, Rich !
No worries on the Chupacabras and aliens - I've got friends in the Roadrunners Internationale ( link ) who helped build the base on Groom Lake, designed, built the U-2, A-12, SR-71, and other stuff they still can't talk about, and other guys who used to pull security around the place and who probably still have contacts up there. If a phone call to them can't solve the problem (imagine the call and the possible radio transmissions !), I've still got the AK-47 and the Steyr M95 If five rounds of 8x56R and 60 rounds of 7.62x39 don't solve my problem I guess I'll just have to resign myself to my fate and pray for either a divine miracle, a quick death if it's a Chupacabra, or lenient treatment and avoidance of "tingly parts" by my alien captors !

Yeah, I'm glad I knew you and everyone else were looking out for me, too! Of course, I'm also glad to have people who are willing to look out for me LOL!

There have been times in the past that I admit I've not exercised the best judgment with nobody there to look out for me. My friends who know of those times ask me how I'm still alive and/or not in prison. My answers are that God loves me, my Guardian Angel is really good, God watches out for drunks, fools, and children in which case two out of three ain't bad, and only the good die young. At 31, I don't drink much anymore and I'm not getting any younger, so I need all the help I can get because that two out of three doesn't hold up anymore and the bit about the good dying young is about used up, too!

Thanks again and best of luck with your gold prospecting I read about in another thread :mrgreen: !

[stalebiscuit]

you....you guys have ace hardwares that sell fire-arms?

wow, all of ours just sell over-priced lumber and lock and keys and tools

then again run by hippies, we get crappy little wooden airplanes kits which are cool i guess, but no guns

[ShotInTheDark]

Glad to hear you responded the way you did. Hope you found what ya need.

[Parrothead]

stalebiscuit - That one kind of threw me, too! Funny, but until the NFA you used to be able to go into a hardware store and buy a Thompson SMG - now, those were the DAYS !!! If I'm historically accurate, the hardware store used to be the place to go for guns in the old west. Overton is a tiny little town that's quite a distance from anything (kind of like Rachel, NV) so I think it makes sense to put the two together. Actually, it doesn't look all that uncommon if you check out the different dealers on the Hi-Point Dealer Locator - Hi-Point Firearms: Image Library

ShotInTheDark - Thanks for the kind words and I do have an update It looks like I'll probably be doing a private transaction with someone from another board here in town

Thanks again, guys!

[stalebiscuit]

Originally Posted by Parrothead

stalebiscuit - That one kind of threw me, too! Funny, but until the NFA you used to be able to go into a hardware store and buy a Thompson SMG - now, those were the DAYS !!! If I'm historically accurate, the hardware store used to be the place to go for guns in the old west. Overton is a tiny little town that's quite a distance from anything (kind of like Rachel, NV) so I think it makes sense to put the two together. Actually, it doesn't look all that uncommon if you check out the different dealers on the Hi-Point Dealer Locator - Hi-Point Firearms: Image Library

ShotInTheDark - Thanks for the kind words and I do have an update It looks like I'll probably be doing a private transaction with someone from another board here in town

Thanks again, guys!

ya, my dad had some old ammo from sears and i was all like wtf?

but it shouldnt surprise me, i just live in the big city

[Sins-of-Mosin]

I own a Hi-Point hand gun and the carbine. I highly recommend the carbine but would tell people to pass on the hand guns.

[Parrothead]

Sins-Of-Mosin - Thanks for the post. I'm still going to get a pistol, but I'm glad to hear the carbines are good as I still plan on getting a 4095 for Dad sometime this year

Stalebiscuit - no worries, a friend of mine has a Sears .22 rifle and I'd never actually seen a hardware store that sold guns until I moved to Nevada from San Diego, CA :P !

[rdale501]

Stablebiscuit:
when I was growing up in Northern California, hardware stores probably sold more guns than the gun shops. Our local hardware was Western Auto. I don't think they are even in business any more. The owners name was Chuck. No one even called that store Western Auto, it was called Chucks. If I ever heard my Dad say "I'm going down to Chucks", I was right on his coat tail.