Long Distance Deer Rifle

[Brother Bob]

I get a little bent out of shape when someone tells me a shot is unethical based on thier ability or equipment.

That's a pretty broad assumption on your part.

[Silent Shooter]

If you can place a bullet in an exact location at 400, then why would you not take a shot then? Why does it "border on ethics issues"???

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

It's not hunting, at least not the type of hunting I do. It's getting out of your SUV or ATV and setting up a table, range-finder, Oregon Portable Weather Station, a .30-378 with a 32 inch barrel, etc......... No that's not hunting. Any shot beyond your MPBR is nothing more than a calculated guess and if you are so far away that you need to launch a bullet at a 17 degree angle to even reach your quarry, that's not hunting. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on ethical hunting.

Brother Bob's treatise on hunting! If you aint doin' it his way, it aint hunting.

Lots of posturing on here. "If you can't get closer you're not a good hunter" .... "I can hit a gnat's nads at 1000 yards" Blah, blah, blah!

Whatever. Stand hunting in the south invloves all sorts of ranges depending on terrain and other factors. In fact most every animal can be hunted in a variety of terrains, and thickness of cover. Shots can vary. There is no maximum range to be considered hunting. Bow hunters think you're not hunting if you can't get within bow range.

Quit telling people that you're hunting method is the only way.

[Brother Bob]

Too many variables at 400 yds. A sudden gust of wind between you and your target, etc. Most of us won't take a shot like that unless it's a matter of life and death. The farther the shot, the less likely of making a clean kill. I guess it comes down to personal ethics. I'm a pretty good shot too, but I can't guarantee, without any doubt, that my bullet will land right where I aimed. So I'll stick with my 300 yd. or less shots for the animals sake. That's just me.

[Silent Shooter]

I forgot "sudden wind gusts" only happen between 300 and 400 yards...

NO shot comes with an absolute guarantee that it will hit, ever.

[338RemUltraMag]

we could argue all day and all night about this... I personally shoot deer at 500+ yards during hunting season but I have 2 guns to do it with my .223 WSSM and my .338 Remington Ultra Magnum but I practice out to 600 yards (farthest shot on the range) if you are confident shoot if not don't shoot it is as simple as that. Let the hunter doing the shooting judge ethics at that time. But back to the subject this thread started on, I use a Brouning Stainless Stalker A-bolt as my medium-long range groundhog-deer gun perfictly capable of 300 yard shots I found 100 gr hornady to work nicely.

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

Too many variables at 400 yds. A sudden gust of wind between you and your target, etc. Most of us won't take a shot like that unless it's a matter of life and death. The farther the shot, the less likely of making a clean kill. I guess it comes down to personal ethics. I'm a pretty good shot too, but I can't guarantee, without any doubt, that my bullet will land right where I aimed. So I'll stick with my 300 yd. or less shots for the animals sake. That's just me.

Kinda cool how you make the differences in personal choices as to what one's effective range with a rifle is about "personal ethics", and how you're "most of us". Does that make you feel superior in some way?

Every shot comes with some degree of difficulty, and thus none is 100% guaranteed to hit true. Those that practice the art and skills of shooting at longer ranges can bring that degree of difficulty to within reasonably acceptable parameters. Yours is a self imposed 300 yards. That's cool, but don't tell me I'm not hunting and I'm unethical if I shoot an animal at 301 yards, but you are if you kill one at 299. That's absurd!

Dave, have your on way if you want...everybody should. Don't tell people they're unethical if they're not doing it your way.

[ArkansasHunter]

The only excellent Deer caliber for long distance Deer shooting that comes to mind is the 300 Win. Mag num num num num.
In my semi-experienced oppionion LOL And not haveing read all the lastest post to see what others had to say.
I rectom that is what I'd use if I was hunting Deer that was a long ways off.
But I don't own a 300 Win. Mag num num num num so I guess I'll hunt close up Deer with my 308


EDIT: Depending on what part of the country you live in I can under stand the need for a rifle and cartridge for certain type terrains such as open country like you have out West.
I think the school bus load of Deer I've harvested in my life time, 50 percent were taken well under 60 yards and the rest under 100 yards.
So any caliber gun 30-06 and smaller will get meat in our heavyly forrested, amazon like terrain.

[Purdy]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

Too many variables at 400 yds. A sudden gust of wind between you and your target, etc. Most of us won't take a shot like that unless it's a matter of life and death. The farther the shot, the less likely of making a clean kill. I guess it comes down to personal ethics. I'm a pretty good shot too, but I can't guarantee, without any doubt, that my bullet will land right where I aimed. So I'll stick with my 300 yd. or less shots for the animals sake. That's just me.

Congratulations, you sound like someone with some common sense. I can't see why anyone, no matter how good they think they are, would have to shoot a game animal at 400+ yards. Maybe the wind doesn't blow where they live.
I have been hunting for over 60 years and hunted big game for over 50. My hunting has been in Montana, the praries of Eastern MT and the mountains of Western MT. Maybe we just have more wind in MT? Shooting at targets from a bench rest at known ranges is one thing, shooting at game at unknown distances and from various stances is something else entirely.

[toolman]

My feeling is, if you wound an animal because your ego told you to "go for it", you shouldn't be hunting and you should feel shame every time you pick up a gun. Yes, mistakes can be made, but there are getting to be too many hunters who take an "oh well" attitude when it comes to wounding game.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Purdy

Congratulations, you sound like someone with some common sense. I can't see why anyone, no matter how good they think they are, would have to shoot a game animal at 400+ yards. Maybe the wind doesn't blow where they live.
I have been hunting for over 60 years and hunted big game for over 50. My hunting has been in Montana, the praries of Eastern MT and the mountains of Western MT. Maybe we just have more wind in MT? Shooting at targets from a bench rest at known ranges is one thing, shooting at game at unknown distances and from various stances is something else entirely.

Thanks buddy. For a while I was beginning to second guess everything that was instilled in me when it comes to hunting. I'm 52 and I've been hunting since I was about 10 years old. My dad would have kicked my azz for taking a 300+ yd. shot at a game animal. I guess my respect for all life has come into play with this debate. I believe the game deserves a clean kill and I know my odds of accomplishing that diminish as the range extends. Some would have us believe that what ever they aim at and no matter the distance, the game becomes dead after the trigger is pulled. What you won't hear is the times when they were off and the game was wounded and lost, only to die a lingering death. I guess instead of questioning ones ethics, I should have questioned their common sense or respect for life.

Originally Posted by toolman

My feeling is, if you wound an animal because your ego told you to "go for it", you shouldn't be hunting and you should feel shame every time you pick up a gun. Yes, mistakes can be made, but there are getting to be too many hunters who take an "oh well" attitude when it comes to wounding game.

Thanks Toolman.

[Full MeTal Jack]

Originally Posted by Posipete

The gun i use now is a really old 30-06 and its really been through a lot. My grandpa owned it, then my dad got it when he stopped hunting and now i use it. It hasnt been taking care of as well as it could have been and its definatly aged. it just shoots all over the place when you get over about 150 yards. up to 150 isnt too bad, but after that its like the bullet has a mind of its own. if im gonna keep shooting with it, im gonna need to replace the barrel and probably some other parts on it because its not worth wasting the bullets. Id rather clean it up and hang it on the wall, then buy a new gun and get started all over again.

How about having the ol rifle rebarreled?
What make and model is it?
Or
What about the stock/receiver fit? Loose or still tight when the stock screws are removed?
A stock bedding job may be needed if its that old and been beating the stock for generations.
Cut and recrowning the muzzle might help. How many times in the last 40 years did the barrel get cleaned with a segmented muzzle rasp?
Was the ol girl cleaned from the breech or muzzle?
A competent Smith with a throat and muzzle erosion guage could check the barrel.

Practice.

Welcome to GnG Posipete.

[sbowers5]

Brother Bob i also agree with you and i would add that if the game is that far away mabe it would be better to try to get just a tad closer so that more positive out come to the hunting experience could obtained, not saying that long shots are wrong and that people are not capable of making them with effeciency, but part of the whole hunting experience is the art of stalking as close to the game as possible, and i myself am 65 years old and have harvested many deer and other game animals and i have a self imposed max range of 300 yrds. Just my opinion.
steve

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by sbowers5

Brother Bob i also agree with you and i would add that if the game is that far away mabe it would be better to try to get just a tad closer so that more positive out come to the hunting experience could obtained, not saying that long shots are wrong and that people are not capable of making them with effeciency, but part of the whole hunting experience is the art of stalking as close to the game as possible, and i myself am 65 years old and have harvested many deer and other game animals and i have a self imposed max range of 300 yrds. Just my opinion.
steve

I feel better now. Maybe I'm not nuts, after all. By the way, how's fishing at Lake Hugo? LOL! Yes, I'm an Okie, too! Got to follow the job, you know.

[rdale501]

I won't get involved in the ethics issues, but I take the long shots. That's the way I hunt. I won't mention the ranges at which I have been successful, some one will just jump in with BS or unethical. I have a brother-in-law who hunts the brush with some buddies packing auto-loaders and pumps. They have wounded more deer in one season than I have in my entire life, I'm 58 and started hunting in 1961. Most of their shots are around 60 yards, maybe out to 100. To me that's not ethical. I pass up more shots than they do, and I get more game than they do. They don't like setting up and waiting for deer. I don't judge them, but I don't like hunting with them. I go alone.

[wirehunt]

Spot on rdale, hell I missed one the other day trying to get to flowery, it was maybe 20 yards when I pulled the trigger

[.280Rem]

Originally Posted by rdale501

I won't get involved in the ethics issues, but I take the long shots. That's the way I hunt. I won't mention the ranges at which I have been successful, some one will just jump in with BS or unethical. I have a brother-in-law who hunts the brush with some buddies packing auto-loaders and pumps. They have wounded more deer in one season than I have in my entire life, I'm 58 and started hunting in 1961. Most of their shots are around 60 yards, maybe out to 100. To me that's not ethical. I pass up more shots than they do, and I get more game than they do. They don't like setting up and waiting for deer. I don't judge them, but I don't like hunting with them. I go alone.

I wont do like Bob and thank you for closing ranks with those of us that can shoot at longer ranges than 300yds. My little ego doesn't need the support. I'm glad Bob knows his limitations...a man should know his limitations.

Bob, it's not your self imposed limits that pi$$ me off...it's your arrogance in calling everybody else unethical if their limits are farther than yours.

[chewy4480]

I don't think I saw anyone say .308. In the Army we shoot people with it out to 800 even a 1000 yards do I don't see why it wouldn't work on a deer a 300.

[FS00008]

I was about to say .308. I love my Remington 700 in .308 and I will say that it's quite effective out to and beyond 300.

What the hell? "Ethics" of long range shots!? It's the ones taken under 60 that bother me.

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

I wont do like Bob and thank you for closing ranks with those of us that can shoot at longer ranges than 300yds. My little ego doesn't need the support. I'm glad Bob knows his limitations...a man should know his limitations.

Bob, it's not your self imposed limits that pi$$ me off...it's your arrogance in calling everybody else unethical if their limits are farther than yours.

Your "little ego"????I must have really hit a nerve with you. LOL! By the way, if it will make you feel better, I compete in 1,000 yd competition in the Memphis area. I have a custom .300 Winmag with a heavy 26 barrel and a Timney trigger. While I could probably drop an elk with that rifle at 600 yds., I choose not to. It has nothing to do with my 'so-called' limitations.........You can go to YouTube and watch videos of folks shooting game at extended yardage. To me, that is nothing more than fodder for the anti-gun movement and as you well know, we are under attack every day! I believe if we were sitting across from each other and drinking a beer, the words exchanged would have been entirely different. You have your opinions and I have mine. I still believe that too many things can go wrong at extended ranges to warrant the shot. I went through military training, too. I wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at a bad guy at extended ranges because he's shooting back! Sniping is my true passion, but I leave that passion at home when I hunt game. I use a .243 for deer. That's about a 200yd. or so deer rifle, because of it's smaller bullet. I might take a shot at 250, but that's stretching it. The energy level drops too much. I'm wanting to get a 6.5 or .260 for future deer hunting. I own a .30-06 and use it when I'm in Oklahoma. My other rifles are a .338 Winmag and a .375 H&H for grizzly and brown bear. The .338 would also cover elk and moose. Oh well, thought I'd give you a little fat to chew before you right me off as an arrogent old coot........As a side note: Go to this site and check out these cannons,
Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels - Long Range Shooting

Originally Posted by FS00008

I was about to say .308. I love my Remington 700 in .308 and I will say that it's quite effective out to and beyond 300.

What the hell? "Ethics" of long range shots!? It's the ones taken under 60 that bother me.

Why do you hunt? Are trying to put meat on the table or prove your manhood? I wish all my shots could be at 60 yds. I do it for the meat.