Buyers Remorse

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-16-2008, 05:22 PM

I am having buyers remorse. I just got back from Big5 and I took a further look at the enfield that I have yet to be released to me this wednesday. I looked at all the markings and they are very vague. As a matter of fact the place where it is supposed to say No4 Mk1 looks like it was engraved by a 3rd grader. I am not so sure about this. It was imported by century and I have heard of counterfeits from pakistan. Could this be one? Could a counterfeit have slipped from Century Arms? Or is this poor engraving normal. I took some pics but they are really bad quality, just to give an idea. Should I still get this thing?

IMG_0035.jpg

IMG_0036.jpg

IMG_0033.jpg

IMG_0034.jpg

GlockMeister · 04-16-2008, 05:30 PM

So you paid for it but haven't picked it up yet?
If that's the case, can't you get your money back? I mean you haven't left the store with it so I wouldn't see why not. And to be honest, if that's the case, and you can get your money back, and don't, I doubt you'll feel any different then you do now...

So yes, if you feel this way, it probably won't change. So why risk still regretting it even after you take it home. JMHO anyhow.

squirrelbaster · 04-16-2008, 05:37 PM

ihave very little faith in century arms. but how much cash are we talking? and is it for collecting or for shooting?

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-16-2008, 05:38 PM

It was 149 and I want to shoot it! I can get my money back before it gets released to me.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-16-2008, 05:42 PM

It does look strange. Is the bore bright and shiney? If you only want a shooter its not a bad price. BUT. I repo cars for a living. If you have a bad feeling you should listen to it. I learned that the hard way.

LarryO1970 · 04-16-2008, 05:46 PM

The poor engraving is generally normal. As for the rest... make sure the barrel is not rotted out... more information can be had from Enfield guys.

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-16-2008, 05:47 PM

The bore isn't all that shiney. Looks very dusty and crudded up. I am pretty sure some cleaning will fix that. But the lands and grooves look fine and they run all the way up the muzzle. I think I still might get it. I want to do a makeover on it a la theboxoftruth. theirs came out beautiful. Educational Zone #28 - Refinishing a US Savage Enfield Mk1 #4 SMLE - Page 3

I love your signature capt'n!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

The poor engraving is generally normal. As for the rest... make sure the barrel is not rotted out... more information can be had from Enfield guys.

Who are "Enfield guys"?

REM.303 · 04-17-2008, 12:18 AM

sh4d0ww4rri0r,
I tried to look at the pictures you took, but alas, my "Dial-Up Server" just won't let me. just a bit of history-The engraving on the left side of the reciever (date and serial #) was done in "Electric Pencil" (Engraver)at the factory, some of the people were good-some not. I have heard of "Copies" that were done in the "Stan's", some of them were so good that experts could not tell them apart.

Things To Check,
1. Check the chamber for "Belling", this condition was caused by shooting "Corrosive and Cordite Ammo" and not doing a good clean after(Double Whammy here, Priming was Corrosive and the Powder Charge was Erosive). Will cause the "Bullet" of the cartridge, when fired, to expand like a flower in the end of the chamber-Extraction of the case will be difficult to down-right impossable.
2. When you get it home, Remove the Fore-Stock and check the underside of the barrel and reciever for Rust, Pitting and Cracks. if you see any- BACK IT GOES, DO NOT FIRE THE RIFLE!!
3. If in Doubt, Get the rifle examined by a gunsmith and have it's headspace checked and magna fluxed for cracks.

Sorry to be a "Doom and Gloomer", but if it passes all the checks...Range Time!!!

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-17-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REM.303

sh4d0ww4rri0r,
I tried to look at the pictures you took, but alas, my "Dial-Up Server" just won't let me. just a bit of history-The engraving on the left side of the reciever (date and serial #) was done in "Electric Pencil" (Engraver)at the factory, some of the people were good-some not. I have heard of "Copies" that were done in the "Stan's", some of them were so good that experts could not tell them apart.

Things To Check,
1. Check the chamber for "Belling", this condition was caused by shooting "Corrosive and Cordite Ammo" and not doing a good clean after(Double Whammy here, Priming was Corrosive and the Powder Charge was Erosive). Will cause the "Bullet" of the cartridge, when fired, to expand like a flower in the end of the chamber-Extraction of the case will be difficult to down-right impossable.
2. When you get it home, Remove the Fore-Stock and check the underside of the barrel and reciever for Rust, Pitting and Cracks. if you see any- BACK IT GOES, DO NOT FIRE THE RIFLE!!
3. If in Doubt, Get the rifle examined by a gunsmith and have it's headspace checked and magna fluxed for cracks.

Sorry to be a "Doom and Gloomer", but if it passes all the checks...Range Time!!!

The funny thing is that the engraving I am talking about is not even the date or serial number it is "No4Mk1" that is loosely penciled into the receiver. Not the normal stamping that I have seen. Plus whoever did it had the WORST handwriting. hehe Anyway when I do a refinishing of the rifle I might just grind that ugly penciling off. Is that illegal in california?

How exactly can I tell if a chamber is "belled"?

Thanks for all your help!

*crosses fingers that all checks are passed*

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-17-2008, 12:54 AM

You know as well as I do the cruddier the rifle the more you should check it out. I know everything I can about a rifle or any firearm before I shoot it for the first time. I buy A LOT of military rifles and you really have to check them before you fire them.

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-17-2008, 01:14 AM

Yeah, I am planning on doing the whole cosmoline cleaning procedure and maybe even the refinishing and then a trip to the gunsmith as always before I shoot it. This is my third rifle and on the first two I have been extremely adamant on having the gunsmith check it out first before shooting em up.

GlockMeister · 04-17-2008, 01:15 AM

That one on Boxotruth looks great. And from what it looked like before they started seems to be worse then that one you bought. From the pictures that is anyhow.

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-17-2008, 01:22 AM

yeah I can't wait to make mine look like that. I think theyre only using engine enamel on that one. Thats 7 dollars a can.

There are two refinishing jobs on enfields (actually three), this one:
Educational Zone #32 - Refinishing an Old Rifle - Page 2

and this one:
Educational Zone #28 - Refinishing a US Savage Enfield Mk1 #4 SMLE - Page 1

which is what I posted earlier.

The top one he is using an olive drab from brownells. this looks great! but a can of that stuff is like 40 bucks with shipping. thats almost a fourth of what I paid for the rifle. I might do black first and then olive drab later down the road.

The wood on mine doesn't look as good as theirs did originally but that should be no problem fixing up.

REM.303 · 04-17-2008, 11:33 PM

sh4d0ww4rri0r,

To check if the chamber is "Belled", takes a bore scope to look at the forward part of the chamber area. right before the Rifling Forcing Cones.

Capt'n Mil Coll · 04-18-2008, 12:34 AM

WWow they spray painted that nice ol rifle. What a bubba job.

sh4d0ww4rri0r · 04-18-2008, 12:53 AM

this is quoted from one of their other refinishing jobs on tbot:

"Before anyone protests, let me be clear on this... We did not "restore" the rifle. We "refinished" it to better condition than when it was new.

This is not a "Bubba" job. Nothing was changed by cutting off wood, or sawing off the barrel.

If someone wanted to return the rifle to original condition, all they would have to do is remove the stock finish and remove the paint.

They could then bang it against a telephone pole a little and it would be just like it was when I got it.

"

Wow, those borescopes are not cheap. Any alternatives? Maybe some type of caliper or something?

squirrelbaster · 04-18-2008, 11:28 AM

i got to say for $150 its well worth the chance!

billy · 04-23-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh4d0ww4rri0r

this is quoted from one of their other refinishing jobs on tbot:

"Before anyone protests, let me be clear on this... We did not "restore" the rifle. We "refinished" it to better condition than when it was new.

This is not a "Bubba" job. Nothing was changed by cutting off wood, or sawing off the barrel.

If someone wanted to return the rifle to original condition, all they would have to do is remove the stock finish and remove the paint.

They could then bang it against a telephone pole a little and it would be just like it was when I got it.

"

Wow, those borescopes are not cheap. Any alternatives? Maybe some type of caliper or something?

ho borescopes arent cheap!
boy i wish they were.
i have heard of buying medical scopes that are obsolete and using one of those?

JoeinTX · 04-24-2008, 01:26 AM

Yeah, would say that for $150 any operating and basic Enfield mechanism is okay. Old military rifles are jumping in price and finding a perfect old M-N or Enfield or Springfield is getting harder and isn't going to be easier. I recently purchased one with good hardware for just less than $200 that did not have anything close to original stocking or pieces or any certifiable authenticity and I was glad to get it.

Tough to say in your case but it's getting to the point that grabbing the oldies and doing a little elbow work is the reality......not much more getting an un-used/abused 50-60-70 year old rifle and finding a gem.

04-16-2008, 05:22 PM	#1
sh4d0ww4rri0r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	Buyers Remorse I am having buyers remorse. I just got back from Big5 and I took a further look at the enfield that I have yet to be released to me this wednesday. I looked at all the markings and they are very vague. As a matter of fact the place where it is supposed to say No4 Mk1 looks like it was engraved by a 3rd grader. I am not so sure about this. It was imported by century and I have heard of counterfeits from pakistan. Could this be one? Could a counterfeit have slipped from Century Arms? Or is this poor engraving normal. I took some pics but they are really bad quality, just to give an idea. Should I still get this thing? IMG_0035.jpg IMG_0036.jpg IMG_0033.jpg IMG_0034.jpg Last edited by sh4d0ww4rri0r; 04-16-2008 at 05:27 PM.

04-16-2008, 05:42 PM	#5
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,016 Trader Rating: (0)	It does look strange. Is the bore bright and shiney? If you only want a shooter its not a bad price. BUT. I repo cars for a living. If you have a bad feeling you should listen to it. I learned that the hard way. __________________ Let's light this fuse and see what happens!

04-16-2008, 05:46 PM	#6
LarryO1970 "Blazing Saddles" GOV Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Johnson Creek, WI Posts: 2,176 Trader Rating: (0)	The poor engraving is generally normal. As for the rest... make sure the barrel is not rotted out... more information can be had from Enfield guys. __________________ "Guess what?! I've got a fever, and the only prescription... is more cowbell!"

04-17-2008, 12:18 AM	#8
REM.303 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: 15 miles PAST the end of the earth Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0)	sh4d0ww4rri0r, I tried to look at the pictures you took, but alas, my "Dial-Up Server" just won't let me. just a bit of history-The engraving on the left side of the reciever (date and serial #) was done in "Electric Pencil" (Engraver)at the factory, some of the people were good-some not. I have heard of "Copies" that were done in the "Stan's", some of them were so good that experts could not tell them apart. Things To Check, 1. Check the chamber for "Belling", this condition was caused by shooting "Corrosive and Cordite Ammo" and not doing a good clean after(Double Whammy here, Priming was Corrosive and the Powder Charge was Erosive). Will cause the "Bullet" of the cartridge, when fired, to expand like a flower in the end of the chamber-Extraction of the case will be difficult to down-right impossable. 2. When you get it home, Remove the Fore-Stock and check the underside of the barrel and reciever for Rust, Pitting and Cracks. if you see any- BACK IT GOES, DO NOT FIRE THE RIFLE!! 3. If in Doubt, Get the rifle examined by a gunsmith and have it's headspace checked and magna fluxed for cracks. Sorry to be a "Doom and Gloomer", but if it passes all the checks...Range Time!!! __________________ Remember, the easy path IS ALWAYS Mined...

04-17-2008, 12:54 AM	#10
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,016 Trader Rating: (0)	You know as well as I do the cruddier the rifle the more you should check it out. I know everything I can about a rifle or any firearm before I shoot it for the first time. I buy A LOT of military rifles and you really have to check them before you fire them. __________________ Let's light this fuse and see what happens!

04-16-2008, 05:30 PM	#2
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,880 Trader Rating: (0)	So you paid for it but haven't picked it up yet? If that's the case, can't you get your money back? I mean you haven't left the store with it so I wouldn't see why not. And to be honest, if that's the case, and you can get your money back, and don't, I doubt you'll feel any different then you do now... So yes, if you feel this way, it probably won't change. So why risk still regretting it even after you take it home. JMHO anyhow. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

04-16-2008, 05:37 PM	#3
squirrelbaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,009 Trader Rating: (0)	ihave very little faith in century arms. but how much cash are we talking? and is it for collecting or for shooting? __________________ "My Shotgun SAYS I AM the POLICE !"--Mooseman684 "I like Turtles!" youtube kid

04-16-2008, 05:38 PM	#4
sh4d0ww4rri0r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	It was 149 and I want to shoot it! I can get my money back before it gets released to me.

04-17-2008, 01:14 AM	#11
sh4d0ww4rri0r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	Yeah, I am planning on doing the whole cosmoline cleaning procedure and maybe even the refinishing and then a trip to the gunsmith as always before I shoot it. This is my third rifle and on the first two I have been extremely adamant on having the gunsmith check it out first before shooting em up.

04-17-2008, 01:15 AM	#12
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 4,880 Trader Rating: (0)	That one on Boxotruth looks great. And from what it looked like before they started seems to be worse then that one you bought. From the pictures that is anyhow. __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

04-17-2008, 01:22 AM	#13
sh4d0ww4rri0r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	yeah I can't wait to make mine look like that. I think theyre only using engine enamel on that one. Thats 7 dollars a can. There are two refinishing jobs on enfields (actually three), this one: Educational Zone #32 - Refinishing an Old Rifle - Page 2 and this one: Educational Zone #28 - Refinishing a US Savage Enfield Mk1 #4 SMLE - Page 1 which is what I posted earlier. The top one he is using an olive drab from brownells. this looks great! but a can of that stuff is like 40 bucks with shipping. thats almost a fourth of what I paid for the rifle. I might do black first and then olive drab later down the road. The wood on mine doesn't look as good as theirs did originally but that should be no problem fixing up. Last edited by sh4d0ww4rri0r; 04-17-2008 at 02:03 AM.

04-17-2008, 11:33 PM	#14
REM.303 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: 15 miles PAST the end of the earth Posts: 145 Trader Rating: (0)	sh4d0ww4rri0r, To check if the chamber is "Belled", takes a bore scope to look at the forward part of the chamber area. right before the Rifling Forcing Cones. __________________ Remember, the easy path IS ALWAYS Mined...

04-18-2008, 12:34 AM	#15
Capt'n Mil Coll Military Rifle Collector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right behind you. -NRA Member- Posts: 2,016 Trader Rating: (0)	WWow they spray painted that nice ol rifle. What a bubba job. __________________ Let's light this fuse and see what happens!

04-18-2008, 12:53 AM	#16
sh4d0ww4rri0r Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 186 Trader Rating: (0)	this is quoted from one of their other refinishing jobs on tbot: "Before anyone protests, let me be clear on this... We did not "restore" the rifle. We "refinished" it to better condition than when it was new. This is not a "Bubba" job. Nothing was changed by cutting off wood, or sawing off the barrel. If someone wanted to return the rifle to original condition, all they would have to do is remove the stock finish and remove the paint. They could then bang it against a telephone pole a little and it would be just like it was when I got it. " Wow, those borescopes are not cheap. Any alternatives? Maybe some type of caliper or something? Last edited by sh4d0ww4rri0r; 04-18-2008 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

04-18-2008, 11:28 AM	#17
squirrelbaster Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,009 Trader Rating: (0)	i got to say for $150 its well worth the chance! __________________ "My Shotgun SAYS I AM the POLICE !"--Mooseman684 "I like Turtles!" youtube kid

04-24-2008, 01:26 AM	#19
JoeinTX Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4 Trader Rating: (0)	Yeah, would say that for $150 any operating and basic Enfield mechanism is okay. Old military rifles are jumping in price and finding a perfect old M-N or Enfield or Springfield is getting harder and isn't going to be easier. I recently purchased one with good hardware for just less than $200 that did not have anything close to original stocking or pieces or any certifiable authenticity and I was glad to get it. Tough to say in your case but it's getting to the point that grabbing the oldies and doing a little elbow work is the reality......not much more getting an un-used/abused 50-60-70 year old rifle and finding a gem. Last edited by JoeinTX; 04-24-2008 at 01:37 AM.