Brown Bear Cartridge

[vikingpreacher]

Originally Posted by AKHunter

Whichever was in my hand when that bear showed itself, whether it be my .338wm or my .30-06'.

If I was going on a coastal brown bear hunt , my .338wm would be the choice. If I am moose hunting in the interior,(where I normaly moose hunt), it is a coin toss which one I chose to bring that given year.

Being an alaskan resident I am not required to have a guide nor would I choose to have a guide.

That is something to consider if I was alone I would probably want more than a 30-06, which I usually would feel comfortable with.

[andrew cochran]

45/70 with a backup .44 mag would be my choice.

[mtm1]

I'd be takeing my .416 Rem. Mod. 70 with 350 TSXs at close to 2700 fps. or 400 interbonds at 2450 fps.

[vikingpreacher]

I know "theres no such thing as overkill on Brown Bears", but come on. 416 and 458's? 30-06 will work and the most you need is a 375.

[Brother Bob]

Sometimes, everything goes wrong when bear hunting. Are you prepared for the unexpected???

YouTube - Bear Killed While Charging Hunter

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by mtm1

I'd be takeing my .416 Rem. Mod. 70 with 350 TSXs at close to 2700 fps. or 400 interbonds at 2450 fps.

Cartridge selection is good . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . bullet(s) selection is bad !


Best,

[Midas]

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

I would add 358 Norma.

Bullet weight and frontal area are what you want here.

A 40+ cal. would not be out of place here either, e.g. 416's or 458 Lott etc... Something with enough velocity to shoot 200 yards with heavy for caliber bullets.

Best,

Agreed, a .416 Rigby or Rem Mag would be excellent for breaking down a big bear.

[mtm1]

Originally Posted by Phil Lozano

Cartridge selection is good . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . bullet(s) selection is bad !


Best,

Phil, if you're talking about the TSX I have had excellent results with this bullet. I've used the plain old Barnes X 300 gr. .416 to break both shoulders on a fairly good bull Elk. Could it be that the African game you're shooting is harder on bullets than N/A game? Not diputing your experiences just curious as I've had nothing but good results.

[CroMagnum]

If I'm hunting big brown bears in the spring which I plan on doing very, very soon, I will be using my Marlin 1895XLR 45-70, setup with WWG's ghost ring and Williams Firesight, Bearproof ejector and shooting 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads. I also have a Winchester Model 70 Classic 375 H&H that I use on moose and fall grizzlies, I shoot 300 gr Federal Premium Nosler Partitions. I like my odds....

[.280Rem]

Interesting considering the source. Hunt Alaska: Choosing a Firearm, Cartridge and Bullet, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

[338RemUltraMag]

I had to make this choice, and I went with a Remington model 700 XCR .338 Rem. Ultra Mag. with a 4x12 Meopta on top shot a 1,750 lb costal brown with it at 250 yards with a 225 gr nosler on the main land but around the area of Kodiac island ran approx 80 yards and fell over dead, the guide had a 416 rigby he never had to use it

[turner]

Originally Posted by CroMagnum

If I'm hunting big brown bears in the spring which I plan on doing very, very soon, I will be using my Marlin 1895XLR 45-70, setup with WWG's ghost ring and Williams Firesight, Bearproof ejector and shooting 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads. I also have a Winchester Model 70 Classic 375 H&H that I use on moose and fall grizzlies, I shoot 300 gr Federal Premium Nosler Partitions. I like my odds....

+1.... I do too! What type velocity are you seeing...somewhere around 1800-1900 FPS? You will most assuredly get Mr Grizz's attention with that load! If I ever get to go, I'll look at 400gr pointed "X" bullets in my .450

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by mtm1

Phil, if you're talking about the TSX I have had excellent results with this bullet. I've used the plain old Barnes X 300 gr. .416 to break both shoulders on a fairly good bull Elk. Could it be that the African game you're shooting is harder on bullets than N/A game? Not diputing your experiences just curious as I've had nothing but good results.

I don't think it is the animals.

The problem I have found with the Barnes TSX's is 1/2 of them work perfectly and 1/2 fail miserably. Nothing inbetween.

There is another guy on another forum that has experienced the same himself (actually more than one hunter).


A client of mine contacted Barnes about their TSX's after seeing my photos of how badly the bullets perform.

Barnes emailed me and we had a 4 or 5 email exchange. Basically, they said the reason the bullets acted so violently was high impact velocity. I mentioned to them one of the animals was shot at 140 yards. They just kept saying it was high impact velocity, . . . . . . . . . . . so I guess you cannot use their bullets under 150 yards. I asked themif they had changed anything in the bullet. They said "NO".

Anyone that wants to see the photos can register at my forum and have a look.

As it turns out, Barnes has changed the metal in their bullets 31 times.

They ended up saying, basically, . . . . . . . . . . . it is your photos against our word and more people know and trust our bullet than will believe your photos.

OK, no problem. However, I asked them to explain the fact that I have had other clients shoot the same animal at about the same range with 300 Wby's and the bullet did not perform in a bad way due to high impact velocities. I never got an answer to that question.

Whoever wants to use Barnes bullets, Hey, no problem by me. I just hope you shoot the 1/2 that works.

If the bullet fails, the animal is still yours . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . dead or wounded, . . . . . . found or lost.

I only use partition type bullets, or extremely well engineered bullets, e.g. Swift A-Frame (the best ), North Forks (no longer made, pity), Woodliegh's (softs and solids), Trophy Bonded (a very good bullet) and Nosler partitions (pretty good, but my last choice).

I have never seen a Swift, NF, Woodleigh, or TB fail . . . . . ever ! No matter what the impact velocity was. All are well engineered bullets.

I do use other bullets on game that I really do not care if I shoot at one or not . . . like Deer. If I have a good broadside shot, OK, if it is quartering, OK, I'll let it walk. However, if I am going hunting for an animal I really want . . . . . . . I will load with the best bullets. I do enough tracking of wounded critters in Tanzania, I don't want to have to track my own critters
so I use bullets that are proven to put critters on the ground.

The bullets I mention are not the most accurate of bullets, but they are the best.

Best,

[rdale501]

[
The bullets I mention are not the most accurate of bullets, but they are the best.

Best,[/quote]


phil when you say not the most accurate, how much accuracy do you think you give up. Evidently it's not much.

[vikingpreacher]

Originally Posted by .280Rem

Interesting considering the source. Hunt Alaska: Choosing a Firearm, Cartridge and Bullet, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

I have read that article and agree strongly with it.

[Widux]

I shot my first grizz(interior ) and coastal brown-with a 30-06 with factory 220gr corelokts- later went to 338 then rem 416 when backing clients. For Kodiaks I'd not consider anything smaller than 375 H&H and most likely would take the 416.

[mtm1]

Phil, thats interesting. I've only shot a few animals with the old Barnes X. Always worked good. I've shot a grand total of three animals with the TSX. I experienced extreme destruction on all three but put it down to the high vel. rounds I was useing. One was the 338/378 with 210 TSX at 3450 fps, the other was my STW with 160 TSX at 3300. The 7 mm kill was around 400 yds. and the bullet exited through the off shoulder. When I skinned it the rest of the shoulder fell off. The 338 blasted huge holes and exited both times. Being a P/H you see a lot more of these bullets used than us normal hunters. Thanks for the heads up I may have to rethink my bullet choices. I was going to use the 270 TSX in my 378 but that may be a bad idea too. Damn these things shoot good in ever caliber I've tried.




'

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by rdale501

phil when you say not the most accurate, how much accuracy do you think you give up. Evidently it's not much.

3/8" to 1/2 "at a hundred.

Barnes are accurate bullets. Great for inflating your ego at the range. Not so hot when the chips are down and you need to have great results from your bullets.

IMO

The photos on my forum are from one safari. I do not take many photos to post on forums, but the results oof the TSX's were just terrible . . . . . . . for a guy shooting a once in a life time trophy to mount.

Pity.


Best,

[Ron AKA]

For self defence, a 12 guage Remingtion 870, with no plug in the mag, and a full load of slugs. For hunting the bear on my own terms, I see no reason to use anything different than what I would hunt moose with; 264WM with 140 grain Nosler Partition at 3200 fps.

Now bring on the wrath of Africa .

On the video, were those not cubs?

Ron

[Phil Lozano]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

For self defence, a 12 guage Remingtion 870, with no plug in the mag, and a full load of slugs. For hunting the bear on my own terms, I see no reason to use anything different than what I would hunt moose with; 264WM with 140 grain Nosler Partition at 3200 fps.

Now bring on the wrath of Africa .

On the video, were those not cubs?

Ron

A 12 guage with slugs is devastating at close range. I don't disagree with your thinking of defending yourself up close with one.

I would say a Benelli is more reliable in the long term. I use a M-Super 90 to follow wounded Leopards.

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

Now bring on the wrath of Africa .
Ron

I wouldn't "bang" on people if they had related their experience in hunting dangerous games, such as Cape Buffalo.

Contrary to the belief of many, the 6.5, 270, 30 and 33 calibers are not the end all to all hunting solutions. Neither is speed with light for caliber bullets adequate for all situations.

Nor was Jack O'Connor always correct.
"The proof is in the pudding" as they say, and between myself and all the other people I know that hunt game, we have shot or seen shot animals into the thousands, which should make us more qualified to judge what works and what is inadequate . . . . . . . . . . . . . even compared to Jack.

I have been very fortunate in knowing many people we read about. People respected in the hunting/shooting community, through their writing and shooting. And when the all suggest the same cartridge/caliber for a certain hunt/animal, people should listen.

Make no mistake, I have a love affair with my 7mm Mag., but I also realize it is not a laser/lightning bolt/dead ray, under all conditions.

Facts and personal experiences instead of conjecture would be more helpful and informative to all.

Best,