#4 buckshot

[bkcraun]

Anyone think that #4 buckshot would make a nice HD round? Lots more pellets than 00 (27 pellets vs. 12 for a 2 3/4" shell) and not as likely to penetrate walls. I'm gonna pick some up and see how they pattern.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by bkcraun

Anyone think that #4 buckshot would make a nice HD round? Lots more pellets than 00 (27 pellets vs. 12 for a 2 3/4" shell) and not as likely to penetrate walls. I'm gonna pick some up and see how they pattern.

Yes.

It's in the wife's 20 gauge.

[GlockMeister]

Just about any buckshot makes for a good HD round. Hell, sometimes, just the click or ka-chunk of the engaging round is enough. lol

[squirrelbaster]

yup its what i use!! thats what the guys at the local shop told me would be best fro HD if wall penatration is a worry. i also got he same advice here on G&G!!

[big boomer]

one of the major gun mags had a story about home defense and the no. 1 rated hd tool was a shotgun loaded with #4 buck its said to be the best.

[bkcraun]

Just found this on the net....

History/Background: The # 4 BUCK was developed to overcome the shortcomings of conventional buck shot ammunition.
The projectile is designed to limit over penetration while producing effective wound channels in soft targets, permitting the use of shotguns in close urban environments. i.e. apartment complexes by forced entry teams.
Potential Targets/Applications: Individual Targets and Animal Control
Primary Users: Law Enforcement, Military

Sounds like just the ticket!

[Windwalker]

Very good post. Thank you.

[andrew cochran]

Yep, #4 is probubly the best for HD.

[ClayMan]

The boys at Box o' Truth did some penetration testing of various shotgun loads. This is a great site:

The Box O' Truth #3 - The Shotgun Meets the Box O' Truth - Page 1

ClayMan

[Romey]

Thats a interesting site and test but not the end all test. One thing many people dont concider when concidering a round, home defense or out in the street either one is the legal aspect and what happens in court, Now I know we all like to think we live by the judged by 12 is better then carried bu 6 or what ever but, one should concider what happens AFTER a unfortunite and hopefully justified shooting. Depending on your area of the country its very easy to be charged with a myraid of crimes for defending youself.
One of the things often brought up as a use against a defender in court is the round used, how many times it was used and in what way. #4 bird shot is alot easier to defend in court then a having to exsplain why you have say 00 buck or why you had +p ammo.
It has been made to stand in court that "maybe you were actually hoping to shoot someone and THATS why you had "man killer" ammunition isnt it Mr. Smith?"
Other then the court aspect of it. What about quick follow up shots. How many of your wives or even yourselves if one isnt practicing regular can do accurate combat shooting with a 12 gauge and 00 buck.
Then here is the Knockdown versa Penetration saftey issue brought up in the test.
Yes its true #4 isnt likely to have the stopping power of a .45 but heck either does most other calibers people use as defense. One shot maynot physically drop a man walking down your hall but i bet he damn well stops and even if the first shot was a quick hit to the torso that doesnt take the intruder down the racking of the next shell and or the aimed follow up to head will
Kudos for picking a 20 guage, something the whole family can use and do so effectivly

[EHCRain10]

#4 buck is what i use, seems to be a really good blend of penetration and pattern
plus my SD shotty loves the stuff every pattern of #4 has been really nice

[GlockMeister]

In that Box o' Truth test, the #4 and #1 buckshot penetrated 6 sheets of 5/8" sheetrock. That's some pretty thick sheetrock first of all. Not steel or even wood by any means though.

The walls of most homes/apts. if you're lucky have 1/2". Personally, it would go right through an apartment wall into an adjoining apartment with ease. Same with a house wall. Take an outer wall, 1/2" sheetrock/drywall, some R31 insulation if you're lucky, especially if you're in a cold weather state, then some what, 2" foam and a tyvek vapor barrier and then your siding. And if it's aluminum or vinyl siding, my personal opinion, it's going to go right through it all. If #4 and #1 buckshot goes through 6 sheets of 5/8", 1/2" and the rest of what I just mentioned is not any more protective then that.

Personally, I haven't gone out and bought anything special for the shotgun for HD. Not when I had it set up for hunting ( how and why I bought it) or even after I converted it to a tactical HD shotgun. I just kept and will use the pheasant or duck load stuff I had/have. The way I see it, the person will more then likely pee their pants when they hear me suggest they stop where they are and get down on the floor or leave without incident and then during or right after hear me pump a round of the 12ga. into the chamber for effect and proof I'm not playing no game. And if then, push comes to shove, I have no doubt that same pheasant and duck load I have will easily leave them lying dead on the floor or seriously wounded, depending on where they get hit. I even believe it would penetrate far less then what the #4 and #1 did. And for HD or an apartment, I prefer that.

I'd would have liked to see what that buckshot would have done to that 5/8" sheetrock and how many sheets it would have penetrated?

I truly think any buckshot will work for HD other then slug. However, a slug will most definately work. It's just that with a slug, the chances and odds of it going through walls and into an adjoining apartment or neighbors home is more than likely a given...

[Romey]

Agreed, and if one is truelly worried over missed penetration(as one should) i.e kids in next room ect, rubber shot shells same as police use is not exspensive or difficult to find.
2 rubber rounds up front and the rest standard rounds will pretty much take care of any buisness AND have full and complete knockdown power with nonlethal round with lethal rounds backed up just incase.
Not to mention completely clear up any chance of being tried or even grand jury of manslaughter or worse. Course then you maybe sued for breaking the persons ribs, wrist ect but Id take that case on anyday.

[andrew cochran]

You got a link for rubber shotshells?

[Romey]

Just off the top of my head, Cheaperthendirt carries a couple different kinds of buck and slug, i have seen them all over the net at different sites that sells ammo.

[GlockMeister]

For less than lethal 12ga. ammunition click on this link.
LESS-THAN-LETHAL : Ammunition To Go

For other then 12ga. less than lethal ammunition, use this link and click on your preference...
Shotgun Ammo : Ammunition To Go

[andrew cochran]

Does anybody make 20 guage ammo like this? Some tear gas might come in handy too.

[squirrelbaster]

Originally Posted by andrew cochran

Does anybody make 20 guage ammo like this? Some tear gas might come in handy too.

it seems to me that while teargas would work, i would ruin all of you furniture and the like.

[Romey]

As well as gas everyone in your house including you,lol Though some pepper spray or tazer devices would be excellent HD , I have had to be gassed and zapped with both (for training)and especially the tazer it has more instant knock down power then most lethal gunshot wounds how ever for stinger type devices its a one shot deal.

[Signpost]

I live in an apartment complex so I'm very concerned about over-penetration. Given my situation, the owner of a local gunshop disagreed with the consensus opinion regarding #4 buckshot. He recommended a box of #8 birdshot and I took his advice. Do you guys think I should upgrade to at least BB?