paddle mag release illegal????

Enscribe · 04-18-2008, 09:02 PM

So I came across an issue...
http://www.geocities.com/miketheelec...paddlemag.html
It seems my excitement is stalled. I came home today to find a nice shiny box at the door. inside was my paddle mag release on a cut off reciever, as well as two German 90's era flek camo mag pouches. A box of dissapointment. the two mag puches are apparently for a belt that I have never seen before or are missing peices which I doubt. the second is the one that matters. I got the paddle mag release out of the box, then was a little weirded out that it was still attached to the mag well cut off. then how to get it off? then I start looking for a way to do this and come across this web page (the link). It seems I have to do some things different.... Not what I wanted to find. It states that you may NOT drill the correct size hole into your reciever b/c it would make it able to install the full auto trigger pack. Making it a Class III machine gun. not what I want at all. I am also about to buy a "clipped and pinned" full auto trigger pack that only looks full auto. it has the swing mount on the trigger pack remaining. what do I do? Abandon my dreams of having a close to authentic Cetme or do it anyway. in summary my problem is this: I wanted to install the paddle mag release and swing mount trigger pack which uses the paddle mag pin hole to attach. This site states that it is illegal. My question is what are you all's knowledge of this and do you think this is a "ban era" thing or a current legal law.

Mooseman684 · 04-18-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enscribe

So I came across an issue...
http://www.geocities.com/miketheelec...paddlemag.html
It seems my excitement is stalled. I came home today to find a nice shiny box at the door. inside was my paddle mag release on a cut off reciever, as well as two German 90's era flek camo mag pouches. A box of dissapointment. the two mag puches are apparently for a belt that I have never seen before or are missing peices which I doubt. the second is the one that matters. I got the paddle mag release out of the box, then was a little weirded out that it was still attached to the mag well cut off. then how to get it off? then I start looking for a way to do this and come across this web page (the link). It seems I have to do some things different.... Not what I wanted to find. It states that you may NOT drill the correct size hole into your reciever b/c it would make it able to install the full auto trigger pack. Making it a Class III machine gun. not what I want at all. I am also about to buy a "clipped and pinned" full auto trigger pack that only looks full auto. it has the swing mount on the trigger pack remaining. what do I do? Abandon my dreams of having a close to authentic Cetme or do it anyway. in summary my problem is this: I wanted to install the paddle mag release and swing mount trigger pack which uses the paddle mag pin hole to attach. This site states that it is illegal. My question is what are you all's knowledge of this and do you think this is a "ban era" thing or a current legal law.

I Know for a fact it is Illegal to have the bushing hole installed in any Cetme, or HK gun...BATFE Considers it a Machine gun, and since it would be Current Manufacture, It is Illegal for citizens to Own...The Hole allows a pin type Full auto Swing down Lower receiver with The Full auto sear to be Installed, Making it readily convertible to Full auto...By the way, The clipped and pinned Full auto Lower is Capable of Full auto fire, they Come in 3 or 4 position selectors...Swing Mount trigger packs are Illegal...PERIOD !
The Exception to this is to purchase a pre-86 Transferrable Auto sear and go thru the registration process and pay the 200 dollar transfer tax, then you can convert and have a Class 3 weapon...Select fire.
Where did you purchase the paddle release assembly ??? I have been looking for one for a replacement on a Registered MG for a customer that needs one.

Oh and your Mag pouches are for a web Belt...Like GI style with the grommets and holes...with a little ingenouity and some leather, you can make a belt loop that attaches on the hooks, for regular belt use.
I did that to mine...
Rich

Enscribe · 04-18-2008, 10:05 PM

Not to disregard or disrespect what you're telling me( I know you to be of sound advice) but any second opinions on this? I seem to encounter different perspectives everywhere I look.
I got it from G3 Parts - HK91 Parts - HK 91 Parts - HK-91 Parts - HK Parts - Cetme Parts - Original German HK Parts the best store for the Cetme G3 battlerifle. Any advice on how to remove the paddle mag release from the cut off it came with?? Your a smith I presume. I plan on keeping the part I guess and not purchasing the trigger pack is my only wise option. I'm not into making my rifle full auto or getting a liscense just to install the paddle. It bums me out pretty bad though. It's the number one gripe I have with my lady. Thanks for the info.

Mooseman684 · 04-18-2008, 10:57 PM

To remove it from the frame piece,I would put the long side with the square hole in a vise and pry it apart, spreading the Metal and releasing the entire assembly...
Someone will come along and backup what I am telling you, or call any Class 3 Dealer...You could also Call BATFE and ask them...
It is written as law on many sites...
Also, any Lower Marked "SEF" is Select fire for Full auto..Safe, Einschutz(single shot) and F is for Full auto.
Rich

Enscribe · 04-18-2008, 11:10 PM

I m taking your advice as truth. No more advice needed meerely interested in what others have done to get around this or install with similiar guidelines to what is on that link I left.
The SEF clipped and pinned I know looks full auto capable select fire, but I was under the impression that all the machining necesary was done(sear, trigger grind, block installed.) to prevent full auto except the post on the exterior of the trigger pack that prevents the selector from going all the way down to F. just for looks in other words. See for yourself on the website I linked for the paddle. Definitley not arguing as I know you know more than I on the subject of CETMEs, or guns for that matter. BTW I got my stuff via usps about ten days after I sent the money order. Not bad.
Thanks for the input and advice.

Mooseman684 · 04-18-2008, 11:31 PM

I worked for a Class 2 Manufacturer for a few years and when Building Guns, you better know the Law Inside and out as far as the Feds are concerned...
I will tell you that there is an outfit that will modify your gun and install a Paddle mag release legally, I can't recall the name of the company, but they have a way of machining and installing a solid , blind hole Paddle mag release so that there is no Bushing...It was pretty expensive as I recall about 200 bucks and shipping both ways...you should be able to find out, I will try and find their card and post it for you if I do...
Oh, thanks for that site, It has some parts I need !!!
Rich

Enscribe · 04-24-2008, 06:26 PM

So I got some fuel to the firey topic. I emailed the site I got the paddle mag release from and he says its ok to install. He also says the clipped and pinned lower is just a semi auto with the looks of a full auto. I am going to ask a smith here in town. I'll let you know.

Mooseman684 · 04-24-2008, 06:44 PM

If it is marked "S-E-F"...It is Considered a Machine gun part...Be Careful!HKPRO: The Mechanics of H&K NFA Conversions
Rich

Enscribe · 04-25-2008, 06:49 PM

I hear ya loud and clear...
"This is arrangement is commonly known as the “push-pin trigger group assembly”, or “swing-down trigger housing” type. It is the original and most common method of attachment of the trigger housing on factory machine-guns. This feature alone, the holes and mated bushing for the front assembly/pivot pin, has been determined to be the sole defining feature by BATF Technology Branch as to what constitutes in a legally defining sense a “Machine Gun” receiver for a H&K type weapon under the National Firearms Act."

Though the coyright is 1999 I can see how complex this little topic can get. Thanks again MOoseman.

jjchumble · 05-25-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

If it is marked "S-E-F"...It is Considered a Machine gun part...Be Careful!HKPRO: The Mechanics of H&K NFA Conversions
Rich

So if I engrave "Auto" on my Ruger 77 it becomes an illegal machinegun ?

The configuration of the trigger pack and the presence/absence of the holes in the receiver parts determine the legality of the parts not how they are marked ...

It is possible to convert a semi auto receiver to accept a paddle magazine release, but if you do it wrong and drill the hole too far you have converted to full auto and are in violation of the law. Unless you already have the proper tools and skills, I suggest paying a experienced CETME/HK gunsmith to do the job for approx $150 to $200.

Do it yourself instructions with ATF ruling on legality : paddlemag

04-18-2008, 10:57 PM	#4
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	To remove it from the frame piece,I would put the long side with the square hole in a vise and pry it apart, spreading the Metal and releasing the entire assembly... Someone will come along and backup what I am telling you, or call any Class 3 Dealer...You could also Call BATFE and ask them... It is written as law on many sites... Also, any Lower Marked "SEF" is Select fire for Full auto..Safe, Einschutz(single shot) and F is for Full auto. Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-18-2008, 11:10 PM	#5
Enscribe Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (0)	I m taking your advice as truth. No more advice needed meerely interested in what others have done to get around this or install with similiar guidelines to what is on that link I left. The SEF clipped and pinned I know looks full auto capable select fire, but I was under the impression that all the machining necesary was done(sear, trigger grind, block installed.) to prevent full auto except the post on the exterior of the trigger pack that prevents the selector from going all the way down to F. just for looks in other words. See for yourself on the website I linked for the paddle. Definitley not arguing as I know you know more than I on the subject of CETMEs, or guns for that matter. BTW I got my stuff via usps about ten days after I sent the money order. Not bad. Thanks for the input and advice. Last edited by Enscribe; 04-18-2008 at 11:12 PM. Reason: forgot

04-18-2008, 11:31 PM	#6
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	I worked for a Class 2 Manufacturer for a few years and when Building Guns, you better know the Law Inside and out as far as the Feds are concerned... I will tell you that there is an outfit that will modify your gun and install a Paddle mag release legally, I can't recall the name of the company, but they have a way of machining and installing a solid , blind hole Paddle mag release so that there is no Bushing...It was pretty expensive as I recall about 200 bucks and shipping both ways...you should be able to find out, I will try and find their card and post it for you if I do... Oh, thanks for that site, It has some parts I need !!! Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-24-2008, 06:44 PM	#8
Mooseman684 Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alaska Wilderness Posts: 9,266 Trader Rating: (0)	If it is marked "S-E-F"...It is Considered a Machine gun part...Be Careful!HKPRO: The Mechanics of H&K NFA Conversions Rich __________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!

04-18-2008, 10:05 PM	#3
Enscribe Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (0)	Not to disregard or disrespect what you're telling me( I know you to be of sound advice) but any second opinions on this? I seem to encounter different perspectives everywhere I look. I got it from G3 Parts - HK91 Parts - HK 91 Parts - HK-91 Parts - HK Parts - Cetme Parts - Original German HK Parts the best store for the Cetme G3 battlerifle. Any advice on how to remove the paddle mag release from the cut off it came with?? Your a smith I presume. I plan on keeping the part I guess and not purchasing the trigger pack is my only wise option. I'm not into making my rifle full auto or getting a liscense just to install the paddle. It bums me out pretty bad though. It's the number one gripe I have with my lady. Thanks for the info.

04-24-2008, 06:26 PM	#7
Enscribe Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (0)	So I got some fuel to the firey topic. I emailed the site I got the paddle mag release from and he says its ok to install. He also says the clipped and pinned lower is just a semi auto with the looks of a full auto. I am going to ask a smith here in town. I'll let you know.

04-25-2008, 06:49 PM	#9
Enscribe Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (0)	I hear ya loud and clear... "This is arrangement is commonly known as the “push-pin trigger group assembly”, or “swing-down trigger housing” type. It is the original and most common method of attachment of the trigger housing on factory machine-guns. This feature alone, the holes and mated bushing for the front assembly/pivot pin, has been determined to be the sole defining feature by BATF Technology Branch as to what constitutes in a legally defining sense a “Machine Gun” receiver for a H&K type weapon under the National Firearms Act." Though the coyright is 1999 I can see how complex this little topic can get. Thanks again MOoseman.