another new toy

[ghost_raven]

So, today I went out on the hunt for a scary black rifle... either a FAL or an AR-15. I like the FAL better for the bullet it fires, and for the gas piston system. But, I like the AR better for looks and feel... and well, it's the American rifle. I'd thought about doing the 6.8mm SPC AR-15, but got scared away by the bullet prices, as the cheapest I saw for 6.8 was something like $25 for a box of 20, as opposed to the 5.56 at $10 for a box of twenty.

So I resolved that I would get a FAL if I could find one (not special ordering), but if not that, I would get an AR-15 if it met my specs. I wanted preferably a full size... 20 inch barrel and all that, but if not full size, I wanted a collapsible stock. I also wanted a removable carry handle, and I did not want the muzzle brake to be permanently attached. I didn't want any political correctness on my rifle, in other words. Had to laugh when I saw a Bushmaster with a fake collapsible stock.

Anyway, didn't find a FAL, but found a nice Stag Arms M4 styled AR-15 that had everything the way I wanted it... I don't mind a 16 inch barrel too terribly. I paid for most of it, but my fiance wants to pay the last few hundred as a birthday present... hopefully soon. I want my new toy.

Now, I have a couple questions, as the only experience I have with this kind of rifle is from when I qualified on it the M-16 the Air Force... there was no practicing. They'd just say "put in three rounds, fire from this position. Put in two rounds, fire from this position," etc. And of course, mine jammed once during that, though I still easily qualified.

Anyway, one question is that I've noticed in various catalogs that sell parts for these, it always seems like a featured item is firing pins, and it says "keep a few in your storage compartment!" Do these things go through firing pins that quickly!?


I'm sure I have more questions, but right now, I'm half asleep.

[YugoM59/66]

I've never seen one of our M4/M16's get new firing pins. And our weapons are OLD! I would imagine as long as its the same thing the Marine's use(which ours came from the lowest bidder) than you'll be fine. I think it's just one of those things thats nice to have around. I was thinking of getting this thing i saw on bushmasters website called the "Emergency Survival Kit." It has Cam Pin, Extractor with 2 Pins and 2 Springs, Extractor Insert, Firing Pin, 2 Firing Pin Retaining Pins, Disconnector and Spring, Hammer with "J" Pin and Spring, Hammer Pin, Trigger Pin, Trigger Spring, Safety Detent and Spring, Magazine Catch Springs, Gas Rings (3), Sight Adjustment Tool, and 2 Armorers Punches for Field Disassembly. Its only $64 on bushmaster but I'm gonna definately look around because they are priced too high for everything(but i still love em)

[ghost_raven]

Another question I have... there are of course two schools on AR-15's as far as their bullets... one who says they suck and have about as much stopping power as a BB gun (and are almost as deadly), and one who says the bullets are some of the best ever made. I've heard of soldiers complaining that it was often taking four or five shots to take an enemy out of action.

On the other side, I hear people who love the round saying that it is supposed to tumble, and such complaints are largely based on the wrong types of bullets being given to our troops.

Obviously, I'm not planning on seeing any combat any time soon... but ah, the things we do for bragging rights. I am wondering which view is closer to the truth on this debate.

[lalo1]

Originally Posted by ghost_raven

So, today I went out on the hunt for a scary black rifle... either a FAL or an AR-15. I like the FAL better for the bullet it fires, and for the gas piston system. But, I like the AR better for looks and feel... and well, it's the American rifle. I'd thought about doing the 6.8mm SPC AR-15, but got scared away by the bullet prices, as the cheapest I saw for 6.8 was something like $25 for a box of 20, as opposed to the 5.56 at $10 for a box of twenty.

So I resolved that I would get a FAL if I could find one (not special ordering), but if not that, I would get an AR-15 if it met my specs. I wanted preferably a full size... 20 inch barrel and all that, but if not full size, I wanted a collapsible stock. I also wanted a removable carry handle, and I did not want the muzzle brake to be permanently attached. I didn't want any political correctness on my rifle, in other words. Had to laugh when I saw a Bushmaster with a fake collapsible stock.

Anyway, didn't find a FAL, but found a nice Stag Arms M4 styled AR-15 that had everything the way I wanted it... I don't mind a 16 inch barrel too terribly. I paid for most of it, but my fiance wants to pay the last few hundred as a birthday present... hopefully soon. I want my new toy.

Now, I have a couple questions, as the only experience I have with this kind of rifle is from when I qualified on it the M-16 the Air Force... there was no practicing. They'd just say "put in three rounds, fire from this position. Put in two rounds, fire from this position," etc. And of course, mine jammed once during that, though I still easily qualified.

Anyway, one question is that I've noticed in various catalogs that sell parts for these, it always seems like a featured item is firing pins, and it says "keep a few in your storage compartment!" Do these things go through firing pins that quickly!?


I'm sure I have more questions, but right now, I'm half asleep.

im just asking is a r700 good

i herd that the m16 are not acreate

[FISHPOND]

I have read the .223 was accepted for use in the military because it does not kill, but wounds. The thought behide this was, that if you wound one solider then it would take two to drag him out and thus three soilders are not firing / in the range of fire. However in my use of the .223 I have found it to kill dogs and deer with one shot as long as I do my part. I hope I never have to use it on human life, but with the right bullet I am not afraid to use it save my hide!!!

[YugoM59/66]

fishpond i've heard the same thing as well but i'll tell you the truth, those iraqi's are dirty. They'll sell there own family for the right price. If you shoot one of them ragheads, they'll leave him out to dry for the most part. Maybe try and grab his weapon if they can. The 5.56 round is not the best round to drop a guy one shot but it's very accurate. I truthfully believe it is the best round for us. We are trained to take hammered pairs and controlled pairs. When a target is within short range we are tought to aim center mass and double tap as fast as you can(hammer pair). If they are longer range you take two well aimed shots center mass(controlled pair). then there is a failure to stop drill. If they are still able to fight we will take one well aimed shot to the head or pelvis. and there is nothing they can do to stop it. If they are in sight, there gettin shot and thats what its about. I want a weapon that is gonna hit my target every time i shoot at it and i trust my M4 with my life. I know when the time comes it will preform the way it has every other time. Now personally I'm a machine gunner so my 7.62x51 AP round will drop them in one burst. But having that kind of round in an assault rifle will have too much kick and it will take to long to get back on target. I can shoot an M4 and still keep my sights wherever i need them. Thats just my point of view. I guess i've really never used any other weapon in combat so i wouldnt know but i love my M4 and would never wanna use anything else until proven effective.

Originally Posted by lalo1

im just asking is a r700 good

i herd that the m16 are not acreate

do you know anything about weapons? and did you take spelling?

[ghost_raven]

Originally Posted by lalo1

im just asking is a r700 good

i herd that the m16 are not acreate

M-16's/AR-15's are very accurate. Sniper quality on accuracy, probably... just too small of a projectile to be practical for that sort of use.

[Ferroflame]

I'm sure that the AR-15 style rifles are very accurate, however, personally, I would want a gun that didn't jam after 3 shots. The 5.56mm is an underpowered round, I'm sorry to say. Not that I'd ever want to be shot with one. It just doesn't get the job done. If you only wound an enemy soldier, and it takes 2 others to carry him back, that means 3 of their men may leave that battle, but they'll come back to others later on. If you kill one, then none of them get to leave, which leaves those to also be shot. I'd much rather have an AK-47 or a Steyr AUG at my side than an AR-15. I dunno. That's my take on it.

The Remington Model 700 is probably one of the best rifles ever to be manufactured in history, to answer your question.

[ghost_raven]

Yeah... I have an AK, a M39 Mosin Nagant, an SKS, and a 1911... it just didn't feel complete without an AR, though. Maybe I'll be able to get a FAL sometime soon, too.

[Ferroflame]

Yeah...

I've got a 91/30 and a Yugo SKS. I've been looking at some AK's, but I think I might just get another Mosin and bubba'fy it with a scope and synthetic stock.

[FS00008]

Originally Posted by lalo1

im just asking is a r700 good

i herd that the m16 are not acreate

Why are you posting a question about the Remington 700 in a thread about an AR? I personally have an Remington 700 in .308 and love it.

AR15/M16/M4s are EXTREMELY accurate. What planet are you coming from? I wouldn't choose it over my AK in a battlefield situation, but they are VERY accurate...

[Ferroflame]

Originally Posted by FS00008

AR15/M16/M4s are EXTREMELY accurate. What planet are you coming from? I wouldn't choose it over my AK in a battlefield situation, but they are VERY accurate...

Maybe very accurate when it actually works...

[FS00008]

I've only had one problem while firing ARs, and that was an FTF. What variants are you referring to?

[Ferroflame]

I know next to nothing about AR-15s. All I know is they're very accurate, underpowered, and unreliable. I'm guessing you clean yours often?

[YugoM59/66]

Originally Posted by Ferroflame

I'm sure that the AR-15 style rifles are very accurate, however, personally, I would want a gun that didn't jam after 3 shots. The 5.56mm is an underpowered round, I'm sorry to say. Not that I'd ever want to be shot with one. It just doesn't get the job done. If you only wound an enemy soldier, and it takes 2 others to carry him back, that means 3 of their men may leave that battle, but they'll come back to others later on. If you kill one, then none of them get to leave, which leaves those to also be shot. I'd much rather have an AK-47 or a Steyr AUG at my side than an AR-15. I dunno. That's my take on it.

The Remington Model 700 is probably one of the best rifles ever to be manufactured in history, to answer your question.

How the h*ll can you say it jams after 3 rounds. I've never had any kind of problems in combat with my M4. and a bullet is a bullet. I put two well aimed shots in a mans chest hes down. Yeah AK's are reliable but there are times your taking sniper fire and and AK just aint gonna cut it. I think its what, someone correct me on this, 200 yards at a point target. How can you talk about a weapon that you dont own. How can you tell me what you would use in combat when you haven't been. Thats just ridiculous. I will admit, an AK would be nice for room clearing because of the size but thats why you just give the first one through that door a d*mn pistol

[knightRider]

huh this thread done went wacko

[YugoM59/66]

Originally Posted by Ferroflame

I know next to nothing about AR-15s. All I know is they're very accurate, underpowered, and unreliable. I'm guessing you clean yours often?

within a span of three days i put about 700 rounds through my M4 and didnt clean it once. didnt have any problems at all. I used to think the same way you did though once. because i heard that all these men died in vietnam because their m16a1's jammed. Mine has never let me down. I've never had problems with the AR I own either.

[ghost_raven]

Originally Posted by Ferroflame

I know next to nothing about AR-15s. All I know is they're very accurate, underpowered, and unreliable. I'm guessing you clean yours often?

I wouldn't call them underpowered... they actually have good power if you get the 5.56mm ammo as opposed to the .223 (same size, but 5.56 is loaded to a higher pressure). They are good at piercing light armor... I think I read somewhere that one of the tests it had to pass was piercing a steel helmet. The thing is that the projectile is small and light. For instance, my preferred ammo for my AK, Wolf Military Classic, is 124 grain. The ammo I got in anticipation of my AR (Federal XM193) is only 55 grain. I took a bullet comparison photo last night, and I'm posting it here so you can see. Left to right, .45 ACP, 5.56mm (AR-15), 7.62x39mm (AK-47), and 7.62x54R.




And while AR's aren't the best for reliability in real world conditions, they aren't quite as bad as they're made out to be, either. Many of the problems that made them... notorious... came from people tweaking them in ways they were not intended to be messed with.

[Ferroflame]

Originally Posted by YugoM59/66

How the h*ll can you say it jams after 3 rounds. I've never had any kind of problems in combat with my M4. and a bullet is a bullet. I put two well aimed shots in a mans chest hes down. Yeah AK's are reliable but there are times your taking sniper fire and and AK just aint gonna cut it. I think its what, someone correct me on this, 200 yards at a point target. How can you talk about a weapon that you dont own. How can you tell me what you would use in combat when you haven't been. Thats just ridiculous. I will admit, an AK would be nice for room clearing because of the size but thats why you just give the first one through that door a d*mn pistol

Woah buddy. Calm down. I didn't mean to insult you or anything... I'm just kinda saying they have a bad reputation... And if you're taking sniper fire, isn't there a designated marksman to take care of that? Then again, it would probably be nice to have a rifle that can shoot that far accurately. But I do think you would know more on the subject, so I have more respect for your opinion.

[ghost_raven]

As far as accuracy, people seem generally happy with the AR-15 out to 500 yards. But for sniper type stuff, the AR-10 in .308 seems to be preferred.