Helwan 9mm

sean46953 · 04-27-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm about to pick up a Helwan 9mm Brigadier pistol. What I know, it's got one ten round mag, the manual, and no box. I also know it's based on the Beretta Model 51, and it's actually a licensed copy of that Beretta, made in Egypt. Now, I've heard alot of mixed reviews, some good, some just horrible. I just wanting any imformation anyone may have about them and any thoughts on it's perfomance. I decided that I'm getting it either way just cause I love the look and feel of it, and it doesn't look of feel like it's gonna be all that bad of a pistol. Any help would be great though! Thanks!

oldjarhead · 04-27-2008, 02:00 AM

I owned a Helwan Brigadier and highly recommend you reconsider. The steel is quite soft and will peen the slide and firing pin in a matter of a few hundred rounds. I believe I put about 300-350 rounds through mine before I started having problems. The Egyptians may be good at making mummies but they can't make firearms.
Yes it is a good looking pistol and has a nice feel but if you do get it, it will end up as a wall hanger. You definately don't want to rely on it for your safety or defense.

sean46953 · 04-27-2008, 03:19 PM

Ok, so I've done some more research. I've read some stuff about some Helwans being out years ago, then disapearing for a while, the newer ones coming out again. Also heard that the older ones are alright and the new ones are junk. With the things I'mve read I've noticed that the posts involving the older ones, some Egyptian writting on the slide has been mentioned, but not with the posts involving the new ones. Is this by chance a way to tell the differnce between and old and a new Helwan? Is there a way to tell the difference? Please, anyone who has ever owned a Helwan, please tell me about when you got it and if it had Egyptian writting on the slide or not. Also, if anyone knows a way to tell the diference between old and new, please let me know. Thanks!

JBS · 04-27-2008, 03:30 PM

Oldjarhead gave you a very good idea of what Helwins are/were like. I don't know what you are calling "old" or "new" as I haven't owned or fired one in about 16 years. But, to each his own. Please let us know what you think, after you buy it and shoot it.

K75RT · 04-27-2008, 03:44 PM

I have an old Helwan that has the arabic writing on the slide. Mine is marked U.A.R. (United Arab Emirates), I have shot lead reloads as well as hot reloads and I've had no problems. The steel on mine is finished in a parkerized finish. All components on my pistol are well heat-treated and the internals have a minimum of tool marks. I've put a numerous round through the pistol with no quality related issues. As this is my only Helwan I certainly cannot speak for the quality of other Helwans. I'm happy with mine.

jimkim · 04-27-2008, 03:48 PM

I have seen good ones and expensive paper weights. I wouldn't buy one unless I knew the previous owner. Be very wary of this pistol.

Rex in OTZ · 04-27-2008, 10:46 PM

I bought one from the Alaska Commercial Company in Barrow,AK back in 1989,I had pretty good performance with it, the only problem I ever encounterd was with the mag lips spreading a little after 3 years of having it, a little tweaking and it shot well after that, It handl'd the cold good and accuracy was ok, it was a good carrying gun, it was used mainly for plinking and pest control, I shot allot of ammo thru it but dont remember how much, I traded it off for a Mauser 30.06.

sean46953 · 04-28-2008, 12:12 AM

Hey Rex, did yours have Eygptoan writting on the slide by chance?

Big Dog · 04-28-2008, 06:00 AM

My Helwan is the 'Maadi Cadet' version made for the commercial market. Fairly roughly finished, lots of tool marks and indifferent blueing. The trigger pull is very stiff! If I can control the trigger, it is a very accurate shooter.
The worst problem I have had is the plastic grips are crumbling. I need to order new ones, or make 'em in wood.
It is somewhat ammo sensitive. It'll choke occasionally on Winchester 9mm FMJ, but likes Remington, and really loves WOLF steel-case!
However, it refuses to chamber Brown Bear steel-case.
It's fun to shoot at the range, but I will NOT bet my life on it! It'll never be my CCW gun.

Rex in OTZ · 04-28-2008, 03:02 PM

I remember it has having decent blueing & no aribic script.

wp23n · 09-07-2008, 01:32 PM

old subject but wanted to let you guys know the trouble we had today
with my brothers helwan 9mm from interarms

about 20 rounds in to a box the slide jammed, would not go forward or backward, put it back in the case and finished up on the range.
took it to the resident gunsmith and had him stumped also, after 15 minutes we said heck with it and came home.

once home we fudged with it for an hour and then i went and got my dead blow hammer and told my brother to close his eyes, a few hard taps later the slide was back in place so i could remove it and see what was going on.
upon removing the slide assembly i found the set screw for the barrel block had worked its way out and jammed the whole thing up.

had to chase the threads for the set screw but was able to get it back together and used red locktight, cleaned it up and put it back together
everything seemed to function fine after.

so you helwan owners should keep this in mind for future reference.

Big Dog · 09-07-2008, 06:23 PM

I just dismantled mine and checked. It has NO setscrew, anywhere around the locking block. I do see a threaded hole in the front of the forward barrel lug - is this what you are meaning? Mine has, AFAIK, never had it, and functions fine. What is it's purpose?

wp23n · 09-15-2008, 06:22 PM

on his there is a set screw that goes in to a notch on the locking block, this set screw stops the locking block from slipping sideways under the barrel and allowing the pin that it rides up and down on to slide out.
if you are looking from the front of the barrell you should see a spot where this screw goes.
if you dont have the set screw either they changed the design or you have been very lucky as his locked up tight and took the dead blow hammer to break it free so i could get the slide off and investigate.

04-27-2008, 01:47 AM	#1
sean46953 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Marion, Indiana Posts: 357	Helwan 9mm I'm about to pick up a Helwan 9mm Brigadier pistol. What I know, it's got one ten round mag, the manual, and no box. I also know it's based on the Beretta Model 51, and it's actually a licensed copy of that Beretta, made in Egypt. Now, I've heard alot of mixed reviews, some good, some just horrible. I just wanting any imformation anyone may have about them and any thoughts on it's perfomance. I decided that I'm getting it either way just cause I love the look and feel of it, and it doesn't look of feel like it's gonna be all that bad of a pistol. Any help would be great though! Thanks! __________________ http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...00_0535100.jpgSean M. Hartman

04-27-2008, 03:19 PM	#3
sean46953 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Marion, Indiana Posts: 357	Ok, so I've done some more research. I've read some stuff about some Helwans being out years ago, then disapearing for a while, the newer ones coming out again. Also heard that the older ones are alright and the new ones are junk. With the things I'mve read I've noticed that the posts involving the older ones, some Egyptian writting on the slide has been mentioned, but not with the posts involving the new ones. Is this by chance a way to tell the differnce between and old and a new Helwan? Is there a way to tell the difference? Please, anyone who has ever owned a Helwan, please tell me about when you got it and if it had Egyptian writting on the slide or not. Also, if anyone knows a way to tell the diference between old and new, please let me know. Thanks! __________________ http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...00_0535100.jpgSean M. Hartman

04-27-2008, 03:44 PM	#5
K75RT Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Litchfield County, Connecticut Posts: 412	I have an old Helwan that has the arabic writing on the slide. Mine is marked U.A.R. (United Arab Emirates), I have shot lead reloads as well as hot reloads and I've had no problems. The steel on mine is finished in a parkerized finish. All components on my pistol are well heat-treated and the internals have a minimum of tool marks. I've put a numerous round through the pistol with no quality related issues. As this is my only Helwan I certainly cannot speak for the quality of other Helwans. I'm happy with mine. Last edited by K75RT; 04-27-2008 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Dooooh

04-27-2008, 03:48 PM	#6
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Near the Little Ocmulgee river in GA Posts: 2,311 Blog Entries: 15	I have seen good ones and expensive paper weights. I wouldn't buy one unless I knew the previous owner. Be very wary of this pistol. __________________ "Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."

04-27-2008, 10:46 PM	#7
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 561	Helwan from Barrow AK I bought one from the Alaska Commercial Company in Barrow,AK back in 1989,I had pretty good performance with it, the only problem I ever encounterd was with the mag lips spreading a little after 3 years of having it, a little tweaking and it shot well after that, It handl'd the cold good and accuracy was ok, it was a good carrying gun, it was used mainly for plinking and pest control, I shot allot of ammo thru it but dont remember how much, I traded it off for a Mauser 30.06.

04-27-2008, 02:00 AM	#2
oldjarhead Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mansfield, MO Posts: 917	I owned a Helwan Brigadier and highly recommend you reconsider. The steel is quite soft and will peen the slide and firing pin in a matter of a few hundred rounds. I believe I put about 300-350 rounds through mine before I started having problems. The Egyptians may be good at making mummies but they can't make firearms. Yes it is a good looking pistol and has a nice feel but if you do get it, it will end up as a wall hanger. You definately don't want to rely on it for your safety or defense.

04-27-2008, 03:30 PM	#4
JBS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 803 Images: 6	Oldjarhead gave you a very good idea of what Helwins are/were like. I don't know what you are calling "old" or "new" as I haven't owned or fired one in about 16 years. But, to each his own. Please let us know what you think, after you buy it and shoot it.

04-28-2008, 12:12 AM	#8
sean46953 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Marion, Indiana Posts: 357	Hey Rex, did yours have Eygptoan writting on the slide by chance? __________________ http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...00_0535100.jpgSean M. Hartman

04-28-2008, 06:00 AM	#9
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,421	My Helwan is the 'Maadi Cadet' version made for the commercial market. Fairly roughly finished, lots of tool marks and indifferent blueing. The trigger pull is very stiff! If I can control the trigger, it is a very accurate shooter. The worst problem I have had is the plastic grips are crumbling. I need to order new ones, or make 'em in wood. It is somewhat ammo sensitive. It'll choke occasionally on Winchester 9mm FMJ, but likes Remington, and really loves WOLF steel-case! However, it refuses to chamber Brown Bear steel-case. It's fun to shoot at the range, but I will NOT bet my life on it! It'll never be my CCW gun. __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

04-28-2008, 03:02 PM	#10
Rex in OTZ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 561	Arctic Helwan I remember it has having decent blueing & no aribic script.

09-07-2008, 01:32 PM	#11
wp23n Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 2	old subject but wanted to let you guys know the trouble we had today with my brothers helwan 9mm from interarms about 20 rounds in to a box the slide jammed, would not go forward or backward, put it back in the case and finished up on the range. took it to the resident gunsmith and had him stumped also, after 15 minutes we said heck with it and came home. once home we fudged with it for an hour and then i went and got my dead blow hammer and told my brother to close his eyes, a few hard taps later the slide was back in place so i could remove it and see what was going on. upon removing the slide assembly i found the set screw for the barrel block had worked its way out and jammed the whole thing up. had to chase the threads for the set screw but was able to get it back together and used red locktight, cleaned it up and put it back together everything seemed to function fine after. so you helwan owners should keep this in mind for future reference.

09-07-2008, 06:23 PM	#12
Big Dog Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 10,421	I just dismantled mine and checked. It has NO setscrew, anywhere around the locking block. I do see a threaded hole in the front of the forward barrel lug - is this what you are meaning? Mine has, AFAIK, never had it, and functions fine. What is it's purpose? __________________ Moderator of: AR15/M16, M14/M1A, New/Beginning Shooters and Militaria/Collectables.

09-15-2008, 06:22 PM	#13
wp23n Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 2	on his there is a set screw that goes in to a notch on the locking block, this set screw stops the locking block from slipping sideways under the barrel and allowing the pin that it rides up and down on to slide out. if you are looking from the front of the barrell you should see a spot where this screw goes. if you dont have the set screw either they changed the design or you have been very lucky as his locked up tight and took the dead blow hammer to break it free so i could get the slide off and investigate.