Say you shelter-in-place, is hydrogen power the solution?

[DWFan]

It's far simplier to build a stationary bicycle connected to several automotive alternators and generate electricity to recharge a bank of wet cell batteries. Besides, the exercise is good for you.

[neophyte]

Larry01970: Sir; cruising through here and wondering
What is to power for. How much;

Geo-thermal would be my start for the family; constant range of temp.
Near any flowing creek; paddle wheel and an 2phase electric motor. Wire and diffuser; power for lights, [stove need venting] hmmm, Radio doesn't need any power.

Probably could convert 100amp alternator or greater for charging batteries; hmmm how much do I need?
Hydrogen isn't limitless unless sufficient inertia' ed

Try this site. Homemade hydrogen: the chap has a thought. It does seem reasonable.

[TXplt]

Hydrogen is great, but current storage technology is much worse than fossil fuels (i.e. compressed H has low energy density; Liquid Hydrogen vents--this is OK when driving but not for long term storage). Also, we don't have a great conversion system (i.e. efficient fuel cells) commercially available on a large scale. For the future, Hydrogen is an attractive fuel because it can be made by electrolysis with water and is very clean burning (i.e. we're just re-combining the hydrogen and oxygen). Also, it fosters energy independence because the hydrogen can be separated from energy derived from electric power plants fueled by nuclear (or even residual heat from these plants), solar, wind, water, coal,geothermal, oil, or gas. This is why these power plants need to be built TODAY !!!

No hydrogen car or electric car is ever close to "zero emissions" --there always has to be a primary energy source. These touted electric or Zero Emission vehicles just move the pollution from the tailpipe to the power plant. At present day, they are actually likely less efficient than our production gasoline powered cars (our best highest temperature power plants run about 40-45% efficient due to the inherent limit from the 2nd law of thermo.).

TODAY, LPG/LNG/CH4/Biofuels/A large gas tank or a windmill to an alternator and batteries is a better bet. Tomorrow, maybe H.

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Evidently, you haven't seen Stanley Meyers work or patents on hydrogen from water...If things won't produce more energy than is put in to it then how do Thermo-Nuclear bombs work, and how do Nuclear reactors work ?
sometimes you have to think out of the box...

The hydrogen-oxygen cycle we'd use in the near future is strictly a chemical reaction; the energy comes from the chemical bonds. It's really no different than burning anything else (including wood or fossil fuels); just oxydation and energy being released. The chief advantage is that hydrogen is clean burning. The energy is put into the process when the hydrogen is made, then is relased when it's burned.

Fission uses kinetic energy derived from splitting atoms of high atomic weight (Uranium/Plutonium). As the split particles hit the atoms of the moderator in the reactor (water, graphite, helium, etc), heat's produced just like stepping on the brakes in a car or a bullet hitting a plate of steel.

The Hydrogen Bomb (and the sun--and fusion for our own electric power of the future) uses fusion between hydrogen nuclei; to overcome the huge repelling forces between the nuclei a tremendous amount of heat to start the reaction is needed. Containing this heat currently requires more energy than we can get out of the process, although if we were really working hard on it we could probably have a working fusion reactor which created more energy than it used. The helium produced by this reaction weighs less than the sum of its parts (i.e. mass/matter is converted into energy). C squared is a huge number, hence the large amount of energy.

[soonerborn]

I am gonna have to go with a different route than everyone else seems to be taking here.

If you want sustainable energy off grid then its gonna be one of these, most likely a combination of them.

Hydroelectric - almost everybody has moving water in the area.

Wood gas - all you need to do is cut down trees

Diesel - little bit harder, but if you can grow sunflowers and keep a seed press running then you got it made. Filtering and treating may or may not be an issue with this, I dunno.

Solar - plenty of sunshine to go around

wind - not the best but can be useful to augment the other sources.

[TXplt]

Originally Posted by soonerborn

I am gonna have to go with a different route than everyone else seems to be taking here.

If you want sustainable energy off grid then its gonna be one of these, most likely a combination of them.

Hydroelectric - almost everybody has moving water in the area.

Wood gas - all you need to do is cut down trees

Diesel - little bit harder, but if you can grow sunflowers and keep a seed press running then you got it made. Filtering and treating may or may not be an issue with this, I dunno.

Solar - plenty of sunshine to go around

wind - not the best but can be useful to augment the other sources.

I think the best strategery is to use what you've got in your own particular situation. Just have a basic framework of equipment that'll let you exploit that. Whether it's a generator that can be rigged to run on different fuels, or a car alternator hooked up to a bike or windmill, etc.

[Stopper]

I have two fork lift batteries that are recharged via DC motors made into wind generators, plus a few solar panels. Bought the Poorman's guide to off grid living a couple of years ago and did pretty much everything it told me to do. Works out great too. Power is never out at my house! Costs ran approx. $1100.00 to get it all going and the only grid we use is for house lights and they are they low wattage type. My last month power bill was $12.00!

[tlarkin]

Originally Posted by Stopper

I have two fork lift batteries that are recharged via DC motors made into wind generators, plus a few solar panels. Bought the Poorman's guide to off grid living a couple of years ago and did pretty much everything it told me to do. Works out great too. Power is never out at my house! Costs ran approx. $1100.00 to get it all going and the only grid we use is for house lights and they are they low wattage type. My last month power bill was $12.00!

Nice, my gas bill is what kills me.

[TXplt]

Cool !

[mitch_mckee]

I've wanted to try this but have not yet gotten 'round tuit.

Emergency Power -- Survival Style

[Amarksman]

Originally Posted by Stopper

I have two fork lift batteries that are recharged via DC motors made into wind generators, plus a few solar panels. Bought the Poorman's guide to off grid living a couple of years ago and did pretty much everything it told me to do. Works out great too. Power is never out at my house! Costs ran approx. $1100.00 to get it all going and the only grid we use is for house lights and they are they low wattage type. My last month power bill was $12.00!

Do you remember the name of that book? I had no luck googlin it.
Thanks

[Stopper]

The Poorman's Guide to wind power and battery systems.

I can't remember exactly what he charges, something like 29 bucks....but it has saved me about 60 to 70 bucks a month for the last 6 months and it is on going.... worth it in my book.

[just_a_car]

Here's the website: Poor Man's Guides - homemade windmills and more
Here's a place to buy the "ebook" online ($35): Poor Man's Guide to Wind Power and Battery Systems - Ebook Explorer

[signupdog]

Yes, that PoorMan's guide is really awesome. Explains everything and isn't so expensive. Built my first windmill, following that e-book By the way, a friend of mine recommended to try Earth 4 Energy from homemade windmills. He said it was good too. Anybody tried it?

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

Methane gas? Just buy about 50 cows and cultivate their POO! There's your methane gas...

True enough, but you have to feed and milk them twice a day. Where are you going to get your feed when the SHTF?

Remembering Grandpa's cow barn and mucking out the dung channel from the output of 30 cows (he'd gone from dairy farming to breeding when he got to be 75), I believe a good-sized methane digester will generate enough gas to let you run a small generator and a propane-powered refrigerator such as you'd find in an RV, although larger household models do exist; they just are difficult to find. The spent muck from the digester is ready to spread/spray fertilizer, too. However, I still have to point out the difficulty of obtaining enough cattle feed to keep the herd going so you have enough dung on hand to keep the digester running.

And there is the matter of what to do with all that milk. I suggest if you do this, you learn to love a cheese-heavy diet. Sure, it is trade goods; but you will be tied to one location and have a lot of land to defend. Have you taken this into account when cosidering running a dairy herd to get methane from?

[Rimjob]

All of you Need to watch this!!! It is amazing and very much on topic!!!

YouTube - Solar hydrogen home Michael Strizki

[Rimjob]

A major misconception about hydrogen gas is that it is some kind of free energy. While Hydrogen has many marvelous qualities it is not above the laws of thermodynamics (More energy is used to make hydrogen in comparison to the power you receive back which is true for all energy storage systems). Hydrogen is by far the most efficient way to store power but it is still only a BATTERY. If you start looking at hydrogen as a new type of BATTERY it all starts to make more sense! Thinking 'hydrogen' is a natural solution for power storage IF the initial power comes from renewable or low cost power generation sources. Wind, solar, hydro or Diesel gensets that make electricity while making hot water are all good candidates for a hydrogen gas energy storage system, otherwise called an H2 gas generator.

Hydrogen generators produce hydrogen and oxygen through the electrolysis of water, following the chemical equation:
2H2O + Energy --> 2H2 + O2
This chemical transformation occurs in an electrolytic cell. If the cell is exposed to any flow of electrical current it starts the process of electrochemical separation of water molecules into its two components namely oxygen and Hydrogen (H20).
These two gases are emitted from the electrodes and are separated and captured in the electrolytic cell. The gases are then made available for use as they pass through a back flash valve, water trap and dehumidifier on their way to any one of many hydrogen powered appliances.

You can use hydrogen gas in converted gas water heaters, cooking
burners or as an admixture fuel in conventional generators.