You Are The Judge In This Case... - Page 2

Marine1 · 05-03-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

She served her sentence. She's been living in fear for 32 years. What she's accomplished is short of a miracle. When will her book or movie come out? LOL!

Gentlemen, if I may...one should examine the "Spirit of the Law". It should be applied with fair judication, but with some compassion, (after this length of time and her model citizen standing) (if the offense is not a capitol crime, (murder-kidnapping,-treason, etc.) robbery-armed, or one where serious bodily injury was afoot, by the suspect). This is 2008, times change, people change.

Indeed..she has led a model citizen life since her narcotics conviction. Was the sentence strong.. yes...but consider... in those days, being caught with a single joint, was a "high-grade, minimum (2) year felony, for possession... in most states". True this offense occured in her teenage years, with extending circumstances.

However...lime-light must be shown involving her "second offense"..."jail break". This, our society cannot have, ever, if we intend to maintain corrective penal measures of criminal incarseration. Detroit House of Correction, commonly known in the old days as..."DE-HO-CO", was a single building, and barracks housing yard complex. The building complex housed violent criminals, and those awaiting trial, and transportation to State Prisons..... "under lock and key".

The yard barracks housed lesser offenses and trustee inmates. There were "no" fences nor guards in the yard area, other than a small station house with hourly A.M. bed checks by the yard officers. There are many yard jobs to be held as a trustee, "milking dairy cows, farm work, etc". As a young R-LEO, I knew many officers who worked there, (many retired from local PD's) and visited DE-HO-CO on training assignments.

Few inmate checks were made during the daylight work hours, as many of the officers assigned lead - trustees to these jobs. She willfully used her trustee status, escaped (walked away) from that position of trust. She owes a debt for this escape.

This (of course) is just my opinion on this issue.

Brother Bob · 05-03-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine1

Gentlemen, if I may...one should examine the "Spirit of the Law". It should be applied with fair judication, but with some compassion, (after this length of time and her model citizen standing) (if the offense is not a capitol crime, (murder-kidnapping,-treason, etc.) robbery-armed, or one where serious bodily injury was afoot, by the suspect). This is 2008, times change, people change.

Indeed..she has led a model citizen life since her narcotics conviction. Was the sentence strong.. yes...but consider... in those days, being caught with a single joint, was a "high-grade, minimum (2) year felony, for possession... in most states". True this offense occured in her teenage years, with extending circumstances.

However...lime-light must be shown involving her "second offense"..."jail break". This, our society cannot have, ever, if we intend to maintain corrective penal measures of criminal incarseration. Detroit House of Correction, commonly known in the old days as..."DE-HO-CO", was a single building, and barracks housing yard complex. The building complex housed violent criminals, and those awaiting trial, and transportation to State Prisons..... "under lock and key".

The yard barracks housed lesser offenses and trustee inmates. There were "no" fences nor guards in the yard area, other than a small station house with hourly A.M. bed checks by the yard officers. There are many yard jobs to be held as a trustee, "milking dairy cows, farm work, etc". As a young R-LEO, I knew many officers who worked there, (many retired from local PD's) and visited DE-HO-CO on training assignments.

Few inmate checks were made during the daylight work hours, as many of the officers assigned lead - trustees to these jobs. She willfully used her trustee status, escaped (walked away) from that position of trust. She owes a debt for this escape.

This (of course) is just my opinion on this issue.

There are three reasons why people are incarcerated. Punishment, public safety, and rehabilitation. Under which one or more of these reasons would it make sense to place her back in prison, at the tax payers expense, and what could it possibly accomplish? It is not a function of the Criminal Justice System to "get even" with someone for escaping. In a previous post, I made mention of the fact that one size does not fit all and this is why some folks serve 15 years, life without parole, or are executed for the same offense. If I was the judge, I'd chew her azz for escaping and make her sweat, but at the end, I couldn't find it in my heart to ruin her or her family for something she did when she was 19, for God's sake!

Marine1 · 05-03-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

If I was the judge, I'd chew her azz for escaping and make her sweat, but at the end, I couldn't find it in my heart to ruin her or her family for something she did when she was 19, for God's sake!

Ruin her?? In what respect? Incarceration? I don't believe I suggested "incarceration" to my knowledge, if this is what your manner of speaking is? There are such things as "community service and stiff fines", if memory serves...not necessarily in Detroit, either. The VA Hospital is always looking for volunteers for disabled Vets, as well as many other worthy institutions. Jail Break is....."Jail Break"...IMO!

Brother Bob · 05-03-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine1

Ruin her?? In what respect? Incarceration? I don't believe I suggested "incarceration" to my knowledge, if this is what your manner of speaking is? There are such things as "community service and stiff fines", if memory serves...not necessarily in Detroit, either. The VA Hospital is always looking for volunteers for disabled Vets, as well as many other worthy institutions. Jail Break is....."Jail Break"...IMO!

I'm good with that. Sorry buddy. I got a house full of kids and I swear I'm about to lose what sanity I have left! LOL! Let me stick my 6 grandkids in your house with you and let's see how much sense you make! LOL! It's so bad that my mouse is jumping around!

Marine1 · 05-03-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Bob

I'm good with that. Sorry buddy. I got a house full of kids and I swear I'm about to lose what sanity I have left! LOL! Let me stick my 6 grandkids in your house with you and let's see how much sense you make! LOL! It's so bad that my mouse is jumping around!

I went through (11)....

maybe thats why I sit in my chair, calling for....... Scotty to beam me aboard the starship!

Mad Hatter · 05-04-2008, 11:10 AM

At this point let her be free, she had to worry all of those years about being caught
and the original sentence was ridiculous.

The guy that was also caught a few weeks ago was in the same boat, he escaped in the 70's, lived a normal life, no trouble with the law since, married, kids etc.
Originally sentenced to 10-15 years for stealing $150.

ezearln · 05-04-2008, 11:48 AM

In all fairness at the time of her initial incarceration, 20 years for a user was not considered excessive, but in my eyes I believe it is, I think her short detention did help her change her ways and may even have helped her in becomming who she is today. Living in fear of discovery must have been an awful stress as well. But the escape is what concerns me most in this. I would say if it were totally my call as to what to impose I think the fairest thing is this.

I would set aside her remaining term on the initial charge
For the escape:
assign 250 hours of community service (apparently something she has been doing for sometime anyway.)
assess a $100 fine
1 year Unsupervised probation (something I believe she is more than qualified to perform well above requirements!)

troy2000 · 05-04-2008, 12:08 PM

For being a bunch of hard-nosed old S.O.B.'s, you guys are doing a pretty good balancing act between the legal system, common sense and compassion. Careful; folks will think you're all going soft...

ezearln · 05-04-2008, 12:31 PM

Thuth is my hard nosed SOB attitude isn't directed at the poor souls who get caught up in "Using" these drugs but more towards the scumbags that deal and manufacture it. Now those folks I'd send right back to the worst lockup I could find and never bat an eye doing it thank you.!

Brother Bob · 05-04-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezearln

Thuth is my hard nosed SOB attitude isn't directed at the poor souls who get caught up in "Using" these drugs but more towards the scumbags that deal and manufacture it. Now those folks I'd send right back to the worst lockup I could find and never bat an eye doing it thank you.!

+1

troy2000 · 05-04-2008, 01:06 PM

I'd say punishment that isn't for behavior modification, vengeance or deterrence by example is pointless, and possibly even sadistic.

This gal has obviously modified her behavior; I see no pressing need for revenge by society or victims in the story; and I doubt that we need to see her locked up to deter other people from escaping, then leading a model life for decades.

So I agree that she should pay some sort of price, but not one that destroys the life she has built. I do get the impression, though, that the story kind of soft-pedals what the actual charges were. I think she was more than a simple user.

05-04-2008, 11:48 AM	#27
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	In all fairness at the time of her initial incarceration, 20 years for a user was not considered excessive, but in my eyes I believe it is, I think her short detention did help her change her ways and may even have helped her in becomming who she is today. Living in fear of discovery must have been an awful stress as well. But the escape is what concerns me most in this. I would say if it were totally my call as to what to impose I think the fairest thing is this. I would set aside her remaining term on the initial charge For the escape: assign 250 hours of community service (apparently something she has been doing for sometime anyway.) assess a $100 fine 1 year Unsupervised probation (something I believe she is more than qualified to perform well above requirements!) __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

05-04-2008, 12:08 PM	#28
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,508 Images: 9	For being a bunch of hard-nosed old S.O.B.'s, you guys are doing a pretty good balancing act between the legal system, common sense and compassion. Careful; folks will think you're all going soft... __________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr

05-04-2008, 12:31 PM	#29
ezearln Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 3,175	Thuth is my hard nosed SOB attitude isn't directed at the poor souls who get caught up in "Using" these drugs but more towards the scumbags that deal and manufacture it. Now those folks I'd send right back to the worst lockup I could find and never bat an eye doing it thank you.! __________________ "You can have my Freedom when I'm done with it!"

05-04-2008, 01:06 PM	#31
troy2000 Resident Armed Liberal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southern California Posts: 9,508 Images: 9	I'd say punishment that isn't for behavior modification, vengeance or deterrence by example is pointless, and possibly even sadistic. This gal has obviously modified her behavior; I see no pressing need for revenge by society or victims in the story; and I doubt that we need to see her locked up to deter other people from escaping, then leading a model life for decades. So I agree that she should pay some sort of price, but not one that destroys the life she has built. I do get the impression, though, that the story kind of soft-pedals what the actual charges were. I think she was more than a simple user. __________________ I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said. WF Buckley, Jr Last edited by troy2000; 05-04-2008 at 01:08 PM.

05-04-2008, 11:10 AM	#26
Mad Hatter Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 626	At this point let her be free, she had to worry all of those years about being caught and the original sentence was ridiculous. The guy that was also caught a few weeks ago was in the same boat, he escaped in the 70's, lived a normal life, no trouble with the law since, married, kids etc. Originally sentenced to 10-15 years for stealing $150.