Gun safe?

[JohnBlaze]

in that case find a way to put it under the floor, with a hidden door.

I've thought about that, but it would be way too expensive.

[stitchclimber]

Originally Posted by meatloaf

Do yall think building a frame around your safe. With fire rated dry wall around it would make a non fire proof safe, fire proof? I would build the frame with metal studs with double layer dry wall (fire rated). The only thing I cant figure out is the best way to make a door for the frame that would be fire resistant. Basicly Im going to make what will look like a storage closet anyways, and after reading the postings started to think about the poor fire rating of my cheap safe. I figure two layers of fire sheild should add on about three hours of life to the safes low 30 min ability.

My original idea was to build what would look like a utility closet to hide my safe, its along the lines of out of sight out of mind. A theif wont come looking for a safe if he doesnt think one exsists, and if he cant find it then its the best safe ever, Right?

I could be wrong but in fire academy we talked about that stuff, its really good as being flame retardant, and having a high ignition temperature, but your going to look at heat transfer. Your interior room will develop thermal layering with massive amounts of heat during a structure fire. What good will fire retardant drywall do if the insides of the safe still rise to the combustion points of the wood-ammo-papers-ect. inside the safe. Just my thoughts.

[JohnBlaze]

Originally Posted by roadie

Ok, that video is stupid and completely unrealistic. First how many of you who have a safe keep it in the middle of a room, with lots of space around it...like say in the middle of the living room or garage? Second, do any of you keep your safe lying down flat? Anyone who has less than half a brain keeps their safe in a tight spot like a closet or at the least in the corner of a room so that there is no room for any sort of leverage, as well even the biggest idiot knows enough to bolt the safe to the wall and floor. Any decent safe will have 5 locking bolts, 1 top and bottom and 3 on the door face, so just prying it open is not as easy as they made it look, you can see at the end of the vid that where the 3 locking bolts were on the main body of the safe there was no missing metal like there should be if the bolts had bent the body to pass by, this safe was probably rigged to hove only 1 or more of the bolts in place. Aside of the fact that they had all that room to work with and gain leverage, plus a 5ft pry bar that many burglars carry with them at all times. And, if you have an alarm, now you add a painful noise and the threat of someone coming to the mix. So, I'm sure it's not that easy to get into a safe that's installed properly.

Now if you have only a gun cabinet, those are easy to get into...but even a low end safe can be made extra secure by a a simple modification. Drill 2 holes into each side of the safe near the front, attach two 1/4" steel plates 8" long and 2" wide with a 3/8" hole in the end to each side of the safe. Then get anther steel plate the length of your safe and and 4" wide with holes on each side to accommodate the side plates...when you will be away from home, place the long front plate through the 2 side plates and pad lock each side....this adds an added measure of protection, making it that much more difficult to gain entry to your safe. Takes a little work, but it's worth it. If it's all still taken, oh well, it's only material things and as long as you and yours is ok then let the insurance people pay for new toys.

oh, and for those of you who keep your safe in the middle of a room not bolted down...what's yer address?

Agreed.

[JMcDonald]

I have a cheap safe from Academy that cost me a bit over $80 bucks. It is pretty basic, but after I got it bolted THROUGH the wall (not just into the studs, but all the way through into the other side with carriage bolts) it should still be pretty safe. At least much safer than hiding it in the closet with a gun lock on it.

[bellx1]

Originally Posted by cremley

a police officer told me to get a safe with a digital lock so that you can change the code that was set from the manufacturer. you also don't have to worry about losing a key. He told me to change it because when the feds break into your house they can just call up the manufacturer for the combination. you should also get one that bolts to the wall and possibly the floor. I don't have one yet but I am looking too.

my father is a locksmith who learned the trade from his father since he was a kid. he's been in the business for over 30 years. we have more than 3 safes in our house and my dad refuses to get one w/ a keypad, because they can be unreliable. he prefers standard mechanical locks, which you can change the combo on if you know how. if anything breaks on these its purely mechanical, and any good locksmith can fix it. if something goes wrong on the keypad safes, chances are that someone is going to be sent out from the company, and they'll charge you alot.
p.s. when digital keypad safes first came out, my dad unlocked a broken one by simply overloading the system by pressing the #1 rapidly.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

A good safe it the one you use. You can buy gun cabinets but they are easily opened. But they will keep kids out if that is all you need. A small gun safe is better than none. If your finances improve in the future you can always buy a larger one. Or two or three.

Some safes mainly older ones have no fire rating. This means the safe will heat in a fire and the contents will bake easily. This will destroy most of the flamable contents. As it was stated before in this thread wood and paper will be destroyed and the smoke will coat and ruin anything it can.

Fire rated safes work by asbestos lining mainly. When heated the liner gives off moisture that will more or less safeguard the contents for a limited amount of time. i.e. 1 hour fire rated. Check the rating on the safes you look at.

Now you can also buy a water rated safe. This is important if you are putting your safe in a basement or where water may damage the contents. In a fire you can direct the fire department to direct water to where your safe is. Provided you are around when the fire occurs. A water rated safe would be ideal in this instance.

A dial safe can also have a key which is useful if you are taking a lot of items in and out of the safe. Like guns to take pics of to post on G&G.
You can lock it with the key and you dont have to dial it open every time.
Either one a dial or a keypad you have to remember the combo.
You have to decide which you like more. And no offence but if the feds want to get into your safe they will.

And a safe is only so safe. Home security is a really good idea in these non secure times. Call around and find a good low cost home security company. One that is monitored close to your residence is best. Not one that is monitored in Texas and your in New Jersey. Or whatever the case is. (No offence to Texas).

One other thing to consider is a large dog. Most theives will find an easier place to break into than if you have a dog to bite them or to bark and make noise.

Last to be most secure get a carry permit if you can.
My .357 is locked and loaded under my pillow or under my arm at all times.
If someone is stupid enough to try to enter my home when I am there its ready to go. Or if they enter it when Im gone and I walk in on them...well it wont be pretty.

Most thieves are not going to steal your guns if they are in a safe.
Try loading up your car or truck with 50 rifles once. Its a lot of work.
Not long ago a gentleman had a room in his house locked with a steel door. He had his firearms all in this room and hanging on the wall.
The door was easily forced open and his "assault rifles" (according to the news) in other words his AR15's etc were all taken. If he had them in a safe he would still have them.

[lefty o]

there is no asbestos used in a safe, not in the last 40+years anyways!!!!!!! look in some safes, everyone on the market that has a fire rating is lined with DRYWALL(sheetrock). i dont know where you came up with your idea of how a fireproof(resistant) safe works , but you are absolutely wrong. they dont give off moisture, nor do they have asbestos in them.

[samuel]

I lined mine with wood so I would get a backfire going and keep the main fire away.If it floods,my wooden safe will float.I also have one of those door peepers with a fake picture that makes it look empty so they think it isn't worth it. sam.

[stitchclimber]

how creative.

[TXplt]

I use a regular gunsafe for long term storage, and 2 fast access safes to keep pistols from prying hands. Also have alarm system--I figure cops/FD will get here before someone can crack or haul away the big one (or house burns down)--think it'd take some time. For the portables, well like the Jeff Foxworthy joke, but at least if I come home and suprise someone I won't be in a shootout between my carry gun and my gun at home. It also keeps the really young kids out.

If this doesn't work, the insurance will.

[Ron AKA]

Originally Posted by meatloaf

Do yall think building a frame around your safe. With fire rated dry wall around it would make a non fire proof safe, fire proof? I would build the frame with metal studs with double layer dry wall (fire rated). The only thing I cant figure out is the best way to make a door for the frame that would be fire resistant. Basicly Im going to make what will look like a storage closet anyways, and after reading the postings started to think about the poor fire rating of my cheap safe. I figure two layers of fire sheild should add on about three hours of life to the safes low 30 min ability.

My original idea was to build what would look like a utility closet to hide my safe, its along the lines of out of sight out of mind. A theif wont come looking for a safe if he doesnt think one exsists, and if he cant find it then its the best safe ever, Right?

I think metal studs and drywall (couple of layers) would do a lot to fireproof it. There are fire rated metal doors too, if you want to go whole hog. I would insulate the wall with mineral wool (not fiberglass), to minimize the heat transfer. But then there is also fire insurance...

Ron

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Ok I stand corrected. Had to call the guy I buy my safes from. Asbestos is still used only in some small safes. I know for a fact it is used in those cheep metal security boxes you may see at Target or Wally World. We cut em open to get the asbestos board out of them when we are nitriting ETN. Comes in handy in case it has to be dumped to keep it from exploding.

In larger safes they can use Drywall. In the large safes I buy they use concrete.

I used a poor choice of words as far as moisture. They call it humidity. In data safes they keep it under 85%. This is measured by heating the safe for an hour and letting it cool then measuring the Humidity level. In gun safes some keep it under 85% some dont.

[lefty o]

however you try to word it again, they dont release moisture. and ill still argue finding asbestos in anything in this country, as it is highly regulated.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Well Lefty you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. As far as the asbestos just go to Target buy the metal security box and put a drill through it and you will find asbestos. Just be sure you get the ones that say do not drill or cut this security box.

As for humidity factors in safes this data can be found all over the internet if you look for 2 minutes.

***Fire & Impact Test
After the units' contents are placed inside and in contact with the interior walls, the unit is closed, locked and exposed to the Standard time as in the Fire Endurance Test for the period of time stated for that classification. Within two minutes, the unit is removed from the furnace and dropped 30' onto a riprap of brick on a heavy concrete base. After impact, the unit is examined for deformation, rupture of parts, damaged insulation, and any other openings into the interior of the unit. When sufficently cooled for handling the unit is inverted, reheated for the time stated and allowed to cool without opening the furnace doors. Once cooled, the unit is opened, dimantled and examinations made reguarding the heat insulating properties of the sample such as uasability of contents, condition of the interior finish, security of locks, part fastenings and any signs of undue transmission of heat or moisture.

****Humidity Test
After pre-conditioning, the unit is heated for 12 hours to obtain an interior temperature of 70+or- 5°F and a relative humidity of 50 +or- 15 percent. The unit must successfully maintain an interior relative humidity less than 85% during that part of the cooling period when the interior temperature is above 120°F. Units are also examined for any signs of moisture penetration into the interior.

*****Combined Explosion Hazard - Impact Test
At the manufacturer's option, both the Fire-Impact Test and the Explosion Hazard Test can be combined and conducted on one sample fire resistant safe or insulated record container as follows. The Explosion Hazard Test is first conducted. If no explosion results during 30 minutes at 2000°F, the furnace temperatures are to be reduced to those of the Standard Test Temperature Curve and the fire continued for an additional 30 minutes for units to be rated 4 Hours, and for an additional 15 minutes for units to be rated 2 Hours. No additional exposure is required for units to be rated 1 Hour. After exposure to the fire for the total period necessary for the classification desired, the furnace fire is to be extinguished and the test sample withdrawn. Within 2 minutes, the unit is dropped from 30' into the riprap of brick on a heavy concrete base, examined, reheated, and re-examined as per the requirements of the Fire And Impact Test.

From West Coast Liberty Safe.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by Ron AKA

I think metal studs and drywall (couple of layers) would do a lot to fireproof it. There are fire rated metal doors too, if you want to go whole hog. I would insulate the wall with mineral wool (not fiberglass), to minimize the heat transfer. But then there is also fire insurance...

Ron

Fire insurance would take care of the replacement of my guns. I had origianly thought to build a "utility closet" to hide my safe. I would even put hooks on the door for mops and such. After reading about fireproofnes of safes I realized mine is a cheap safe. Thats why I was wondering about fire proofing the closet/utility/gunsafe hider.

As far as heat transfer goes I was thinking maybe I could glue the second layer of sheatrock on so as to insulate the screw heads minimalizing the heat transfer through the metal screws into the metal frame and into my safe. I could even double layer inside and out like that.

[lefty o]

yes, they maintain a limited level of humidity, but unlikle your original post, they do not emit any moisture(humidity if you will).

[Timm129]

I was told when I bought mine to but one twice as big as I needed at the time. Spend the extra money and get a good one. It should be a once in a lifetime purchase. Safes are good for keeping the guns safe during fire and kids and criminals out...

[stitchclimber]

Well at this point in time I don't have the financial resources to pick up large quality safe, so I went ahead and got a used cheapo steal gun gun cabinet. It won't help me in the case of fire, or serious thieves, but it will keep curious hands off of most of the guns.

[madcratebuilder]

I think if a pro thief knows about your guns and wants them, he well get them. With all the battery powered saws, grinders, drills, and small gas torch outfits around these days, I don't think any safe is totally thief proof. All you can do is slow them down and hope your alarm system is working, but those are easy to bypass too.

[stalebiscuit]

i keep mine in a closet with a lock on it, it could be easy to open but i dont tell to many about my guns

im going to get a safe at some point and then put the safe in the closet